Please show me ONE time in this thread where OP asked for a new rifle. He sent in this one expecting it to come back by the 22nd and function. If I were AA and knew this was being watched by a huge audience on AR15.com, I would have swapped out the upper with another blem no questions asked. If that one really functioned, then no one loses and both sides are happy. But no, they chose to send it back as is. Maybe. We don't even know if they've sent it yet and they're way past their dead line of "turning it around same day" for OP. Not to mention they are ignoring all forms of contact. Anyone who gives a shit about the company image would know that even with a needy customer, you don't do that.

What don't you understand? It's more about the company as a whole than this one rifle. OP has been here long enough that I would believe his story. If it was some 13/14r with 3 posts, I would be on your side. But it's not. It's someone with at least enough experience to know the rifle didn't function as it should. Not sure why he would go through all of this to get another blem if nothing was wrong to begin with.

My intention was never to be rude.  I actually think I am being pretty polite given the circumstances, personal attacks against me, name calling etc....  Ohh, and by the way, still no UPS as of last night.  Still no answer on the tracking.  I'm glad I had a "Plan B" but still bummed non the less.....  It's now been 8  delivery days since they received it.

We strive to provide the best service in the industry at the best prices that we possibly can. We worked out a great deal with Adams Arms to be able to provide an even better deal to our customers. These blemished (cosmetic) models from Adams Arms are an unbeatable deal, nearly unequaled in the industry. Their products are excellent in craftsmanship and performance and their service impeccable. Great folks to deal with. Adams Arms has gone above and beyond to assist this customer with his warranty claim. Moreover, they have done so with complete professionalism, understanding and kindness. Unfortunately, they've had to do so when not being treated in the same manner from this customer.

We will not get into lengthy online debates, however we won't accept misinformation being presented about our company without taking the time to provide the other side. When the customer made his claim to AA, AA immediately provided an RMA. Once the firearm was received it was test fired and performed flawlessly, running 100% as it should. After they test fired the customer's firearm and could find no issues, they had their armorer completely break the firearm down, they inspected everything and reassembled the rifle. The armorer then performed safety and function tests with flawless results. It was cycled with three different types of magazines. Again, the firearm performed flawlessly and meets AA's production specs. It was returned to the customer as advertised, " These rifles may have a slight blemish in the finish.  They are factory new guns with new gun warranty and 100% satisfaction guaranteed for fit and function."

This customer initially wrote an excellent review of the product. Subsequently he wrote our staff and requested that his review be removed so that he could write an updated review. He was accommodated. The new review was posted and the customer spoke well of AA and Buds alike, however he stated that he had an issue with the performance of the firearm and was going to contact AA. When speaking well of AA's quality products he referenced another AA product that he owns. We asked the customer to provide us with additional info about the issue that he was having. The customer  sent an angry email utilizing some colorful language, making sure to note that he's writing negative comments about AA on forums. As an aside, the customer also mentioned not being happy with POF as a company and no longer does business with them either. POF in all respects also produce excellent products.  The customer followed up his initial email with a second email stating that since we didn't respond to his email as quickly as he'd like that we he didn't matter, "So, I guess that Buds has taken a stance that the customer doesn't matter.  I'll annotate that and be sure not to do any business with your company again.  I'll also refer my customers elsewhere."

We apologized for the delayed response and assured the customer that his statement wasn't accurate. We assured the customer that we'd contact Adams Arms on his behalf to ensure his issue was addressed.

The customer again responded with an email that included his repetitive threat to either accommodate him in the manner that he chooses or he will make attempts to hurt our business and AA's business, "I will be warning as many people as possible in as many forums as possible about the lack of quality found in these "blems."

He then followed up with another email reiterating the same threat, "I am the type of person that will go out of their way to yell from the mountain tops when a company takes care of people.  I want to see them thrive and get as much business as possible.  I also, will stand on that same mountain top and tell people when I get screwed.  The more I research this, the more I am finding others who were screwed.  Now, I'm networking with them to get pics of their messed up "blemished"rifles to also post on various forums.  I'll be contacting your bosses as well to let they know that this could have been handled very differently." This time however he makes the threat more personal attempting to negatively impact a staff's employment.

We informed the customer that we had confirmed with Adams Arms that his firearm had been serviced and performed flawlessly, providing the information mentioned above. Based on the customer approach, irrational and unwarranted emails we have closed the customer's account and will not do business with him in the future.

We appreciate every customer and every order, no matter how big or how small. We have excellent BBB, Gunbroker and ebay ratings. The only way that we can maintain these ratings is by providing exemplary service. We strive to provide the best service in the industry. What we won't do however, is to accommodate unwarranted attempts to strong arm us with threats of negative feedback. We believe in going the extra mile to SERVE our customers, but don't believe in having our "arm twisted" to appease a dishonest person posting dishonest accusations.

If that is all true then I agree with the steps that Bud's has taken. I have had multiple transactions with Bud's in the past and they've all been good. (Now ship out order 1030373 )

However, I still do not appreciate the fact that AA didn't follow through and get the rifle back to him like they said they would - and now complete ignore his emails/calls.

And I repeat, with one edit:

"LOL, it's fun to attempt to ruin a company's reputation with sketchy info and vague comments! Wee, hooray for the interwebs!"

Based on this thread, I have come away liking both Bud's and AA even more.  Thanks OP!

How do you know?  We know that OP misrepresented many things in his first post.  And so far you are basing all of your displeasure on what the OP has said.  All of the communications from AA and now Bud's have painted a picture so drastically different from the OP's picture as to call nearly everything he said into question.  So... Why believe even that portion?  BTW, AA didn't say specifically WHEN they would get it back to him.  They said they would turn it around as soon as they could (same day if possible).  The next post from AA uses words like "when your rifle was here" and "before we returned it".  OP may not have received it by the 22nd, but AA appears to have returned it.

So does the OP have a functioning rifle in his possession now?  Looking back I see it was 8 days ago that Adams Arms gave a report on testing the rifle.

I count myself luckier by the day.

Hking

We have proof they had it on teh 15th and had performed the tests at ~2:30pm IIRC. It's rare that UPS would pick up at a large company before 4pm so they had plenty of time to get it shipped back out that day if they didn't do anything else with it. Max in the continental US is 5 business days, the average for ground being 2-3 days. He should have had it by now either way.

And really - they didn't paint a picture any different in my eyes. They just added in the part about OP being a dick towards them. That doesn't change the fact that the rifle looks like crap and didn't function for him. I also find it VERY VERY hard to believe that they couldn't get a .0015'' feeler gauge through that gap. I guess that the biggest thing is that this has been going on for 2 weeks and OP still doesn't have a functioning rifle in his hands.

A few things to comment.  First, you're basing all of your diagnosis on the first post.  We know (even according to the OP) that the rifle does in fact function.  OP claimed to have received videos from AA showing it functioning.  So, OP is guilty at best of operator error.  "but he took it to a gunsmith"  Based on what evidence?  OP mischaracterized several communications to both AA and Bud's, why believe the line about a gunsmith to be free of mischaracterization?  Bottom line on this is that based on AA's comments and the OP's response, the rifle does in fact function.

Second, the pics provided in the OP are dubious if you know anything about taking pictures.  I mentioned it earlier, but I'll repeat here.  High contrast images taken on lower quality sensors will cause bleeding on the image.  The gap between the receivers may well have been minute, but with a bright enough light behind them, the line will bleed to appear to be larger than it really is.  My point is, I could take a picture of a $5000 perfect AR in a way that makes it look like crap if I want.  The darker image without light behind is more telling and shows a gap, but again some bleeding can occur.  More likely the difference could be as easily attributed to shadows.  My point is not to disparage the OP, but to point out that images can be very deceiving and more often you will see what you want.  As for the carrier...  guess what?  I took my AA bolt carrier out to see if the inside of the carrier was the same... it is.  Or at least close.  In fact, if you'd like I'll take a pic later this week (too busy today) to show that I can make the inside of the carrier look as bad as the OP pic.  But does it function?  Never had an issue.  You could argue that the machining is suspect if you don't like the look of the inside of the carrier group.  By All means go right ahead.  I won't argue.  But for my 2 cents, that part is irrelevant because it functions as required.  Bottom line here is a lot of people got really worked up over what may well be no issues at all based on so-so quality photos.

Finally the underlined part above.  How do you know he doesn't?  If you have personal information that you know for sure he doesn't, so be it.  But I mean, based on the OP's attitude and the threat to disparage both AA and Bud's in all ways possible if he didn't get his way, the only evidence we have is from the OP who doesn't seem to have an issue coloring the truth to fit his narrative.  I really am not trying to disparage the OP, but it's hard not to at this point.

Your comments have made me take a much closer look at mine.  My bolt & charging handle have the same "imperfections" as the OP's.  I didn't even see them on the bolt until viewed under a very bright white light.  I am inspecting it as I am typing this.  Mine even has multiple red dye chem marks at either end on both sides, just like the OP's.  I think you're right about the camera making the tool marks look worse than  they are.
I will also have to agree with your last statement:  "...I really am not trying to disparage the OP, but it's hard not to at this point."
This begs the unanswered question:  Who is this gunsmith he used to test functionality?  OP does say:  "... I take it and the Samson rail up to a local gun shop as I work there part
time for some extra cash.  I get with the shops gunsmith for some
guidance on the rail install.  That guy has forgotten more about how a
firearm works than I will probably ever know."  Is it possible that this gunsmith has provided the OP with unsound advice?  Without further information, I will have to believe so.





 

I'm well aware of how photography works. The first picture of the thread is NOT anything like what you explained.



It's clear there's a lot of slop there. Anyway - you still didn't address them not getting the rifle back to him - whether it was in the same condition it was when it left or not. That's my biggest problem at this point. Don't say something and not follow through. If AA chimes in and posts the tracking number going back to OP with a delivery date that is the 22nd or before, I'll gladly eat my words and call OP a liar.

The second picture is the one with the bright light bleed through.  The first one is the one I said was more telling.  I noted that due to high contrast even dark can bleed, but that in the case of that picture it may also have been shadows.  But, that it is certainly more telling than the one with the light shining through.

As to the rifle getting back.  I did address it.  You are basing your criticism on the assumption that the OP is telling you the whole story.  IE, that he #1 hasn't received it and #2 was never given any kind of tracking number.  As I said before, I'm not trying to disparage the OP, but how do you know he's being truthful?  The OP makes a lot of threats to the companies involved here about intentionally disparaging them on every forum he can.  Why should we accept at face value that the rifle wasn't returned in a reasonable time?  You're also focusing on AA following through with OP's misunderstood timelines.  OP claimed AA promised to overnight it.  AA never said that, and even OP recanted.  OP claimed AA promised to have it back by the 22nd.  AA never said that, they said if they could turn it around quickly enough it "should" be back by the 22nd.  Not "will" be back.  My point is, you are accepting the word of someone who has clouded the truth from the first post on this thread against AA rather than giving both parties a fair look.  And further, if AA had actually turned it around the same day, that would have been perfect fodder for the skeptics of the world to say "Well AA rushed it and didn't thoroughly investigate the issue so they suck."  Based on the description of their investigation, which I'll admit is going solely on their word as well, it seems they did do a little more than just test fire and put it back in the box to ship back.  It's likely they wanted to make certain before they sent it back (Or at least I would) so as not to give any further fodder for the naysayers.  Of course we don't know exactly when it was shipped or when it arrived.  But AA never promised to overnight it and never promised to have it back by the 22nd.  That was the OP characterizing AA's correspondence incorrectly.  So it's not fair to AA to hold them to a standard that OP invented out of thin air.

Yo, Arcticwarrior, did you get it back yet? What is the verdict

To Adams Arms:
I received the rifle back from AA yesterday.  I got out to the range later in the day due to dealing with the VA all morning and early afternoon.  Those that have been there will understand that chore/pain.  

I tested the rifle with the same three mags as the last time. I used the same ammo as the last time.

 One mag had issues this time.  In all fairness to AA, I'll chalk that mag up to perhaps having issues and use it as a training magazine from now on.  There is still a ton of slop between the upper/lower receivers.  However, the rifle now fires good from the brief test firing preformed.

My greatest concern is how this was all handled.  I still do not know why the communications were so poor between AA and myself (unanswered phone calls, e-mails, and IM's).

I can't change the past, only hope that in the future, there is better communication.  As I have mentioned before, AA has always put out a stellar product.  I have another one of their uppers and it is beautiful, tight fitting, and preforms flawlessly.   After torturing my other AA upper during training (and it never failing me) I carried it on duty as my patrol rifle for a long time.

I'd like to publicly thank Adams Arms for taking the rifle back and looking it over.  The rifle was shipped last Wednesday (7-16) according to UPS.  It simply took forever to get to me.  A tracking number would have been nice, as it would have given me when to expect it.  

I would also like to publicly thank AA for putting a birthday card in the box for my daughter.  Everyone in the shop appears to signed it and wish her happy birthday.  They also included a pink drink coozie, a patch , and a couple of stickers.  That there was above and beyond given the circumstances.  I appreciated that more than you know.

As far as AA's blemish rifles go, I will still recommend this product.  BUT I would also recommend the buyer go over the blemish rifle with a fine tooth comb before doing any paperwork.

I understand that sometimes a bad apple slips through the cracks.  It's bound to happen with any large company from time to time.  Hopefully after all of this, communications from AA will be improved.

AA does make a great product, I have been saying this from day one.  I will continue to use my other AA as it's been trustworthy for so long.  I'll consider this blemish that I have as a beginners rifle for my daughter.  She will have this one to learn the basics on until I can replace it with a new/better AA later on.

To Buds:

You specifically stated to me "Your attempts to strong arm AA or Buds to receive a non blemished model at the blemished price you paid will not be accommodated, despite your threats."  That sir is a FALSEHOOD.  I can post the whole e-mail conversation if need be.  I have asked a couple of times to have the upper swapped out, blem for blem.    You accused me of attempting to "strong arm" your company or AA out of a non-blemished upper are NOT TRUE.  I have only asked that this rifle be made right, and suggested an upper swap as a viable course of action.

What I actually said was:
Look at the pictures, they don't lie.  There is a huge gap in between the receivers.  The lower is fine, it's the upper that is machined improperly.  I wasn't asking for a new non-blemished upper.  The serial numbered parts stay the same.  It's swapping out a blem upper with a blem upper that fits properly.  

The e-mail before it also had stating:
"I asked AA to swap out the upper with another blem upper that was machined properly and did not have the slop in the receiver."

Your right in one aspect sir, I did tell you that:
"Since nobody want's to make this right, then I will be warning as many people as possible in as many forums as possible about the lack of quality found in these "blems."  
Your also make it sound like I was rude to you by using "colorful language."  The only "colorful language" I used was:
"Nick, I may be an asshole, (please excuse the terminology), but I'm an honest asshole."  If you were offended by that, then I apologize.  Towards the end of our email chain, I wasn't 100% tactful, but I was still polite.  


So, on that note, I have asked Bud's Customer Service Rep Nick about my lifetime warranty that I purchased with the rifle.

I have been ignored.

Since my account was closed, my review removed (censored), and I was advised to shop elsewhere, I can only deduce that Buds doesn't want me as a customer, and they have also cancelled the warranty.
I asked Nick for clarification and was never given one.  I can only deduce that buds has cancelled my lifetime warranty and is keeping the money I paid.  I have checked my credit card account and nothing has posted.  

After hitting "submit" on this post I will be contacting my State's Attorney Generals Office to respectfully request they open a complaint of "theft" since you are stealing my money.  I'm sure they will be in contact with your States Attorney Generals Office.  I will also be alerting the BBB of this situation.

If your going to bash me online, at least be honest about it.  I never lied about anything.  As a matter of fact, when I misread AA 's e-mail regarding shipping, I publicly posted that I was in the wrong on that one.  I feel I am being reasonable.

On it's way

I still think OP did not come on here and try to get something for nothing......though I don't know him but amount of time he has been here I am sure he's not a flake....plus he will not go out of his way to make those pictures look as such to get free upgrade I have to say that's a good thing that he did not have a good camera, if he had a good camera pictures will look a lot worst....

So you're saying you received back a semi-functional firearm from Adams Arms after all of this?  And that you would still recommend Adams Arms products and even purchase a product from them in the future?  Wow.  'Nuff Said.

My best guess of where you went wrong with Adams Arms was posting the photos and even commenting on the situation in a public forum without having waited for a resolution one way or the other....  At which point you could have posted a glowing review of Adams Arms Customer Service and the boasted of the quality of said product;  or alternatively you could have posted the photos and/or comments about a lack of Customer Service and/or product quality.

As for the Buds Gun Shop situation.  AG to AG contact/complaints/investigation and a claim of "theft" plain ain't gonna happen...  Purchasing a good/service out of state is always a risk, this is something that everyone should remember.  When you "BUY WITH CONFIDENCE" you are quite literally doing just that.  When the product would fall into the category of a small claim there's even more risk involved IMHO, as it's just not worth an individuals effort to proceed judicially on a $599 product downtown, much less halfway across the country.  Chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on, life's too short.  BBB if you honestly feel wronged and it's worth your time.  But when you accepted the transfer of the firearm without going over it with a "fine tooth comb" you made someone else's problem your own.  

I would advise you to keep both hard copies AND digital copies of incoming/outgoing communications with Buds Gun Shop, specifically calls/USPS/emails/IM's, etc.,  INCLUDING and MOST IMPORTANTLY the communication that Buds Gun Shop posted above in this thread.  If you honestly feel you were liabled by that posting and wish to retain legal counsel to seek redress, what you do NOW(and I do mean NOW) can make or break future litigation.  He said/she said ain't gonna cut it, but careful documentation can be absolutely damning.

Best regards,

Hking




 

DUMB question: Customer is always right- If the rifle was that bad when you received it . Before you ever Shot it ,why didn't you just call Bud's and say this isn't acceptable I want to return and will pay the difference for a New one. I don't get why you are upset about looks now. I understand there's another issue: But what you are complaining about should have been an easy exchange or full refund unfired: AM I missing something?

I did first contact Buds.  I made the fatal flaw of not going over the rifle with a fine tooth comb prior to doing my 4473.  I was going by all the positive reviews on Buds website, so I didn't anticipate any problems.    That's what I get for being in a rush.....  Lesson learned there.  I didn't get a chance to really go over everything until after I did the paperwork.

I just had one of my adams 5.45x39 uppers start throwing tumbling bullets. I emailed them, they replied with a couple of questions and I shot it again with same results. Told them that and they emailed me a call tag for return. 2 weeks later a new upper was in my hands. I couldn't ask for better CS. Thanks Adams Arms.
BTW I bought two blems and very happy with them.

The AA “blem” rifle I received has performed flawlessly.  Buds processing of my order went smoothly as have prior orders.  

I appreciate the great prices at Buds and the easy online ordering process.  I think that the firearms community should be glad to have supportive businesses like Buds out there.  I’m sure it’s not easy for Buds to keep innovating how we buy guns but they keep working on it to make the process affordable and straightforward.  Works for me.  

I usually like Bud's too... it's too bad that they raise their prices when there's a manufacturer rebate, though. I ordered a RIA for $427 2 weeks ago. A manufacturer rebate came out right as I placed my order so I got a damn good deal on it. I was going to order a second one. Now the same gun I paid $427 for is listed at $471 but you get the manufacturer rebate.

My $599 buds blem functioned flawlessly on crappy Tulammo ammo. Same ammo that failed to extract on my AUG. The only blem i saw on the rifle was a small dot on the upper receiver. Thats it. No slop between receivers. Worth every penny. Shipping from Bud's was fast too.

I just picked up my Adams Arms "Blem".
I have looked this rifle over, dis-assembled it for cleaning, and cannot, for the life of me, find any "Blem".
This gun's fit and finish is as good as any I've had.

I'm considering buying a couple more.


Snipe

This part did NOT pass QA inspection - that is the definition of a "blemished" part.   The fact that it is being sold as a blemished item (still functional) means that it failed inspection for appearance reasons.

 

        I was finally able to get my rifle sighted in today.  It turns out my barrel was loose and no amount of windage could bring the rifle on target.  My friend who knows a lot about AR rifles checked it said the barrel was finger tight only.  He tightened it to the correct torque setting and using a laser bore sighter got my scope on target.  It shoots pretty damn good now and I am quite happy with it but disappointed it was able to leave the factory with a loose barrel.  

         I hope to shoot some groups at 100 yards soon but from what I have seen at 25 and 50 yards I see no reason to believe it won't be 1.5 MOA or better.  Good enough for me for this kind of rifle.  If I need something more accurate I will grab one of my specialty ARs.  Hope to get the AAC flashhider so I can see how it works suppressed.

I received my AA 'blemish'.  It had a very minor scuff by the flash hider.  It will look worse after on trip to the woods.  While I have not shot more than 100 rounds through it yet, it functioned perfectly.  Fit and finish are as good as any AR I have ever bought.  Best $600 dollars I ever spent on a rifle..

I was pretty impressed with AA's responses, besides the slight condescending tone. OP THUMBS UP for the way you have handled what we have been a part of. Now, I understand defending your company when it calls for it, but Buds response put the first nail in a coffin for me. Based on what I have seen OP was completely entitled to not be happy with the rifle, and Buds basically said "look bitch, stop whining, cause it was cheap, and we said it would be blemished."


Granted, I'm just a 14'r, but I swear people come out of the woodwork stating their product was perfect when there is a thread like this.

Granted, I'm just a 14'r, but I swear people come out of the woodwork stating their product was perfect when there is a thread like this.

Guess I don't understand this comment.  Are you saying that only people with negative feedback should post?  If I buy something that I think is a great deal
I will tell people.  And just the opposite.  If I get something bad or am treated poorly I will also let people know.

I think what it often shows is that there are exceptions to the norm.  One guy has a bad experience, many guys have had good experiences.  And in some cases it's because people feel that the perceived attacks on a company are not justified.  I posted first in this thread because there seemed to be a trend toward indicting AA for poor quality assurance.  It's not fair to any company to misunderstand an issue and then blame the company for something unrelated.  That's true of any company.  So when I see a lot of people defending, I tend to weight that against the one bad experience.

The upper/lower gap might or might not be an issue, I could see that letting some crap in there.   If I was doing a build with that I'd use another upper receiver.

Otherwise I don't see anything to be all the worried about.   The tool marks in the carrier are not uncommon even in mil issue weapons.

Which vendors are selling these?

budsgunshop.com has them for 599

I really like my AA Blem, definitely a different feel shooting a gas piston.
Replaced the trigger with an ALG ACT; 4.5lb smooth & clean break.