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elkman
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Posted: 6/9/2013 8:51:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/9/2013 8:51:33 AM EST by elkman]
I am looking at these 3 piston AR15's and would like opinions on which you prefer and why ?

They are all about the same price and quality.

Thanks in advance for any help.
TECHUSMC
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Posted: 6/9/2013 9:31:21 AM EST
Hmmmm, I own none of them. If i could have one of your three, I would go with the PWS. PWS is the closest to an AK your gonna get. No experience with ADCOR, When I pick up an LMT, it seems way too heavy.
wegs
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Posted: 6/9/2013 10:06:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By elkman:
I am looking at these 3 piston AR15's and would like opinions on which you prefer and why ?

They are all about the same price and quality.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Picking up an ADCOR Bear Elite on Tuesday. Will let you know how it runs as soon as possible.
Wulfmann
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Posted: 6/9/2013 11:31:05 AM EST
They are all great rifles and you would be happy with any of them.

The new PWS Mod1 is lighter and better balanced than the other two and IMO the best M4 being made right now.

It also has the best stock trigger of any AR (although I still put Geisseles in my ARs no matter). I am keeping that trigger as a primary back up being it is really a very nice single stage.
I do believe if you could pick up all three in a LGS you would choose the PWS but again, they are all nice ARs


Wulfmann
whenheavenfell
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Posted: 6/9/2013 1:31:08 PM EST
i have 2 pws rifles with a 3rd on order.

i regret nothing.
mizpin
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Posted: 6/10/2013 9:10:24 AM EST
I have both the Adcor Bear Elite and the PWS Mod0. Between the two, I prefer the PWS because it has a better balance. My Adcor is a little front heavy because I ended getting the FN heavy barrel version, so I always wonder whether the Adcor with non-heavy barrel would be better balanced.

Adcor use to have an "advantage" because it had free floating barrel and adjustable gas valve, but PWS now makes mod1 with free float barrel and adjustable gas valve, and other modifications which makes it even more attractive. The Adcor does have a separate side charging handle, but I do not consider this to be an advantage. There is a post where an owner complained about the side charging handle wearing away the rail, which is legit because mine showed similar wear. Hence, I do not use the side charging handle due to this problem. The side charging handle may be considered a disadvantage because the side charging handle gets in the way of putting on rail covers on the side where the charging handle is located.

If I had to choose, I would go with the PWS. On major difference between the two is that Adcor may be considered a short stroke piston and the PWS is a long stroke piston.

I do not have the LMT so cannot comment on this gun.
shaun315
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Posted: 6/10/2013 9:42:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Wulfmann:
They are all great rifles and you would be happy with any of them.

The new PWS Mod1 is lighter and better balanced than the other two and IMO the best M4 being made right now.

It also has the best stock trigger of any AR (although I still put Geisseles in my ARs no matter). I am keeping that trigger as a primary back up being it is really a very nice single stage.
I do believe if you could pick up all three in a LGS you would choose the PWS but again, they are all nice ARs


Wulfmann


I bought my PWS mk116 mod1 based on Wulrmann's review - and concur with pretty much everything he's said, the rifle is light, balanced, and shoots extremely well.

I have no experience with the others, but unless they offer significant improvements or advantages over the mod1 (which is up to you personally to decide) - I don't see much reason to buy one.

And it's even made in Boise, ID - so you can support your local AR manufacturer.
SC-Texas
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Posted: 6/10/2013 10:06:58 AM EST
I have to lean toward the PWS
The_Evil_One
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Posted: 6/10/2013 12:20:31 PM EST
Resident ADCOR owner checking in. What do you want to know about it?
"Hatred is the cowards way of being intimidated."

"Truth is controlled by perception"

Official arfcom nickname: Tank
sessionfan
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Posted: 6/11/2013 3:40:57 PM EST
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!
The_Evil_One
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Posted: 6/11/2013 11:20:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?
"Hatred is the cowards way of being intimidated."

"Truth is controlled by perception"

Official arfcom nickname: Tank
Wulfmann
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Posted: 6/12/2013 3:36:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


You should know by now I am not shy about expressing myself and certainly would never hide it with another account.
Was it not me who called out PWS?


Wulfmann

sessionfan
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Posted: 6/12/2013 3:51:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.
LawyerUp
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Posted: 6/12/2013 11:15:40 AM EST
Another vote for PWS. I don't have any of the other two, but I do have scars, as well as DI ARs. What I really like about the PWS is the weight/balance. Most of the piston guns I've played with are front heavy, which is a deal-killer to me. I've never had any problems with mine, and nobody else I know who has one has had any issues.

You did good work and now we wait.....................until midnight..................... although I won't be up to see anything at that time and it will have to wait until the morning." EdAvilaSr
The_Evil_One
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Posted: 6/13/2013 2:38:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.


No actually it was the wording if your post that made me question you. It sounded very much like the same exact dribble wulfman puts out. I'm no knocking the system but the fact your post is worded very closely to what I'm used to seeing out of him I'm questioning your identity. If you wish to take this issue further I'll be standing by my inbox.

Your petty insults aren't going to get you far with me.
"Hatred is the cowards way of being intimidated."

"Truth is controlled by perception"

Official arfcom nickname: Tank
Wulfmann
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Posted: 6/13/2013 4:24:07 AM EST
Evil, you falsely accused the guy of being someone else and when he took offense you acted like it is your right because he agreed with me.

Guess what, a lot of people like the PWS Mod1 and that does not mean I am setting up fake accounts. That is comical to even think you believe such lunacy.

I have no loyalty to any company and merely express an objective account of my impressions and as I have proven will make a negative post about PWS or any brand if it is warranted. That is something you will not do as you are the poster child for Adcor and get all riled up if anyone makes the slightest negative comment about your choice. You take it personal and it is just people exchanging opinions.

I have no tie to PWS and after calling them out publicly to their embarrassment I doubt I am well liked in Boise and I bought the PWS Mod1 because it is so far superior to any other M4 out there not because it is a PWS but in spite of it. (Although I do believe they are great people and simply made a mistake in their position and when called out "clarified" their position to our satisfaction)

What I buy is based on what I think is best for me not what pleases anyone else.

Wow, someone saying a gun widely recognized as the lightest best balanced piston AR you can buy must be the same person setting up fake accounts.
That is embarrassing for you.


Wulfmann
sessionfan
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Posted: 6/13/2013 5:37:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2013 6:04:25 AM EST by sessionfan]
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.


No actually it was the wording if your post that made me question you. It sounded very much like the same exact dribble wulfman puts out. I'm no knocking the system but the fact your post is worded very closely to what I'm used to seeing out of him I'm questioning your identity. If you wish to take this issue further I'll be standing by my inbox.

Your petty insults aren't going to get you far with me.


1, You really have a stupidly big freaking ego.

2. Who made you the identity/post police? refer to #1

3. How old are you? Your user name, avatar and shitty tone in every post I have found from you would not come form anyone who had gone through puberty. refer to #1

4. Dribble huh? Because wolfmann and I both like PWS and have positive things to say about them and we are not singing the praises of the rifle you own anything we say is dribble? You are just having a little pissy fit because almost everyone in this thread was recommending PWS and since you have nothing positive to add you come up with your usual negative garbage. refer to #1

5. I am not concerned with getting anywhere with you. You are the kind of person I like to avoid! refer to #1

6. Have fun standing by your inbox and as John Bon Jovi would say.....Have a nice day!


jasonusvi
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Posted: 6/13/2013 6:05:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2013 6:09:32 AM EST by jasonusvi]
I originally got one LMT MRP because of the barrel change capability. I got a second because the first was flawless.

At this point I have 9 barrels for the pair but the suppressed 12.5" piston became my go to HD gun while I swap more on the other upper. In 556 I have 12.5" piston, 16" CL, 18" SS. In 300BLK I have two DI 10.5s (a Noveske and a new LMT). In 6.8 I have a DI 14.5" SS (chopped from LMT 18") and a standard DI 12.5" CL. I also have a 11.5" Spikes 22lr and an 18" BHW 6.5PCC with a Noveske Switch Block.

All those options would have cost a lot more as complete uppers. I picked up several of the barrels lightly used for around $200.

The LMT piston gun uses standard / non proprietary AR bolts (which is good because I have a bunch).

Would be nice if they released 12.5" 6.8 piston barrel.

12.5" piston & 10.5" Noveske 300BLK below:




"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty." John Basil Barnhill - 1914
Wulfmann
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Posted: 6/13/2013 8:03:08 AM EST
Jasonusvi i know people who have LMTs for the same reasons and they are very happy with them.
Your position makes LMT the perfect choice for you.

Nice looking rigs

It would be a boring world if there was only one type of AR and there are variations that better suit each of us and for your requirements I too would have LMTs.


Wulfmann
45-Seventy
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Posted: 6/13/2013 5:50:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


All of this is absolutly true.

I had an LMT piston and honestly, I wasn't terribly impressed. It felt way heavier than it actually was and didn't balance very well for me. It was a solid 1.5 MOA carbine however and seemed to be reliable.

I sold it and bought a PWS Mk116 Mod 0 and haven't looked back. Comparatively, it felt like half the weight (even though it wasn't) and pointed and balanced extremely well. It's more accurate and just as reliable.

I'm a big time PWS fan.
If you're good at something, never do it for free.
45-Seventy
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Posted: 6/13/2013 5:52:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.


No actually it was the wording if your post that made me question you. It sounded very much like the same exact dribble wulfman puts out. I'm no knocking the system but the fact your post is worded very closely to what I'm used to seeing out of him I'm questioning your identity. If you wish to take this issue further I'll be standing by my inbox.

Your petty insults aren't going to get you far with me.


What the hell?
If you're good at something, never do it for free.
jimmer_5
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Posted: 6/14/2013 8:06:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2013 8:14:34 PM EST by jimmer_5]
Another vote for PWS here. I owned a Robinson Armament XCR and. I loved everything about it but the weight - it was just too heavy. I have a Ruger SR556CLA and it's a nice rifle, but still a bit muzzle heavy. When I got my PWS MK114 Mod 0, I was in love the first time I shot it. The balance is perfect, it's wonderfully light, it eats everything I feed it, and it is accurate as hell. I have one of the new Mod 1's on order, and. I am looking forward to comparing the two of them. The new key mod rail is a nice update and I like the adjustable gas and how the piston can split in two pieces without tools. The fact that you have to knock out a roll pin to remove the charging handle from the piston assembly was one of my only issues with the Mod 0.

I have nothing against LMT and I really like how well thought out the ADCOR system is, but the balance on my PWS is magic and it is way more accurate than I am. That's my recommendation.
GreenSwamperin
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Posted: 6/16/2013 6:30:30 PM EST
Here's my thoughts on the matter. I own a PWS Mk114 "Mod 0" as they now call it. I bought it after handling the other two piston guns you mentioned as well as many others. The only one that felt nearly as light and well balanced was the LWRC Lightweight model with the Magpul handguard. I thought the long stroke was a better design and so went with the PWS.

Now, I have had problems with the PWS, namely steel cases sticking in the chamber right out of the box and after the chamber was scrubbed clean. Having said that, I haven't heard of any other PWS owners having this problem. PWS's customer service is also the absolute best. They have been awesome whenever I needed anything. Aside from the steel problem it has been 100% reliable through thousands of rounds of brass ammo. I'm not the best precision shooter but I can get close to 1.5 moa groups from my Mk114. It's more accurate than I am.

I am still entirely happy that I went with the PWS. I haven't shot one but the new Mod 0 looks even nicer. I would definitely at least handle your options before buying if you can't shoot them. Just my .02 but I think The PWS is hard to beat. The long stroke system is awesome in several different ways and definitely unique.
JaketheSnake
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Posted: 6/17/2013 1:15:27 AM EST
Another vote for LMT piston rifle.

Plus if you decide the piston feature isn't for you, you can always switch out the barrel and bolt carrier back to a true DI platform.

Finding one will be the hard part.
"Never argue with Idiots, they'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience..."
45-Seventy
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Posted: 6/17/2013 9:42:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:
Another vote for LMT piston rifle.

Plus if you decide the piston feature isn't for you, you can always switch out the barrel and bolt carrier back to a true DI platform.

Finding one will be the hard part.


I will say that swapping out barrels was an extremely easy process. I was wry impressed with the system on my LMT. For me, it just wasn't that big of a deal as I never intended to do a lot of switching. If that's something that appeals to you, you'll be really happy with the LMT.
If you're good at something, never do it for free.
elkman
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Posted: 6/24/2013 6:03:34 AM EST
It seems like the consensus is the PWS.

What kind of accuracy are you getting with your PWS rifles ?
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