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Basic
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Posted: 6/9/2013 8:51:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/9/2013 8:51:33 AM EST by elkman]
I am looking at these 3 piston AR15's and would like opinions on which you prefer and why ?

They are all about the same price and quality.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Link Posted: 6/9/2013 9:31:21 AM EST
Hmmmm, I own none of them. If i could have one of your three, I would go with the PWS. PWS is the closest to an AK your gonna get. No experience with ADCOR, When I pick up an LMT, it seems way too heavy.
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Link Posted: 6/9/2013 10:06:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By elkman:
I am looking at these 3 piston AR15's and would like opinions on which you prefer and why ?

They are all about the same price and quality.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Picking up an ADCOR Bear Elite on Tuesday. Will let you know how it runs as soon as possible.
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Link Posted: 6/9/2013 11:31:05 AM EST
They are all great rifles and you would be happy with any of them.

The new PWS Mod1 is lighter and better balanced than the other two and IMO the best M4 being made right now.

It also has the best stock trigger of any AR (although I still put Geisseles in my ARs no matter). I am keeping that trigger as a primary back up being it is really a very nice single stage.
I do believe if you could pick up all three in a LGS you would choose the PWS but again, they are all nice ARs


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Link Posted: 6/9/2013 1:31:08 PM EST
i have 2 pws rifles with a 3rd on order.

i regret nothing.
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Link Posted: 6/10/2013 9:10:24 AM EST
I have both the Adcor Bear Elite and the PWS Mod0. Between the two, I prefer the PWS because it has a better balance. My Adcor is a little front heavy because I ended getting the FN heavy barrel version, so I always wonder whether the Adcor with non-heavy barrel would be better balanced.

Adcor use to have an "advantage" because it had free floating barrel and adjustable gas valve, but PWS now makes mod1 with free float barrel and adjustable gas valve, and other modifications which makes it even more attractive. The Adcor does have a separate side charging handle, but I do not consider this to be an advantage. There is a post where an owner complained about the side charging handle wearing away the rail, which is legit because mine showed similar wear. Hence, I do not use the side charging handle due to this problem. The side charging handle may be considered a disadvantage because the side charging handle gets in the way of putting on rail covers on the side where the charging handle is located.

If I had to choose, I would go with the PWS. On major difference between the two is that Adcor may be considered a short stroke piston and the PWS is a long stroke piston.

I do not have the LMT so cannot comment on this gun.
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Link Posted: 6/10/2013 9:42:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Wulfmann:
They are all great rifles and you would be happy with any of them.

The new PWS Mod1 is lighter and better balanced than the other two and IMO the best M4 being made right now.

It also has the best stock trigger of any AR (although I still put Geisseles in my ARs no matter). I am keeping that trigger as a primary back up being it is really a very nice single stage.
I do believe if you could pick up all three in a LGS you would choose the PWS but again, they are all nice ARs


Wulfmann


I bought my PWS mk116 mod1 based on Wulrmann's review - and concur with pretty much everything he's said, the rifle is light, balanced, and shoots extremely well.

I have no experience with the others, but unless they offer significant improvements or advantages over the mod1 (which is up to you personally to decide) - I don't see much reason to buy one.

And it's even made in Boise, ID - so you can support your local AR manufacturer.
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Link Posted: 6/10/2013 10:06:58 AM EST
I have to lean toward the PWS
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Link Posted: 6/10/2013 12:20:31 PM EST
Resident ADCOR owner checking in. What do you want to know about it?
"Hatred is the cowards way of being intimidated."

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Link Posted: 6/11/2013 3:40:57 PM EST
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!
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Link Posted: 6/11/2013 11:20:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?
"Hatred is the cowards way of being intimidated."

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Link Posted: 6/12/2013 3:36:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


You should know by now I am not shy about expressing myself and certainly would never hide it with another account.
Was it not me who called out PWS?


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Link Posted: 6/12/2013 3:51:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.
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Link Posted: 6/12/2013 11:15:40 AM EST
Another vote for PWS. I don't have any of the other two, but I do have scars, as well as DI ARs. What I really like about the PWS is the weight/balance. Most of the piston guns I've played with are front heavy, which is a deal-killer to me. I've never had any problems with mine, and nobody else I know who has one has had any issues.

You did good work and now we wait.....................until midnight..................... although I won't be up to see anything at that time and it will have to wait until the morning." EdAvilaSr
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Link Posted: 6/13/2013 2:38:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.


No actually it was the wording if your post that made me question you. It sounded very much like the same exact dribble wulfman puts out. I'm no knocking the system but the fact your post is worded very closely to what I'm used to seeing out of him I'm questioning your identity. If you wish to take this issue further I'll be standing by my inbox.

Your petty insults aren't going to get you far with me.
"Hatred is the cowards way of being intimidated."

"Truth is controlled by perception"

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Link Posted: 6/13/2013 4:24:07 AM EST
Evil, you falsely accused the guy of being someone else and when he took offense you acted like it is your right because he agreed with me.

Guess what, a lot of people like the PWS Mod1 and that does not mean I am setting up fake accounts. That is comical to even think you believe such lunacy.

I have no loyalty to any company and merely express an objective account of my impressions and as I have proven will make a negative post about PWS or any brand if it is warranted. That is something you will not do as you are the poster child for Adcor and get all riled up if anyone makes the slightest negative comment about your choice. You take it personal and it is just people exchanging opinions.

I have no tie to PWS and after calling them out publicly to their embarrassment I doubt I am well liked in Boise and I bought the PWS Mod1 because it is so far superior to any other M4 out there not because it is a PWS but in spite of it. (Although I do believe they are great people and simply made a mistake in their position and when called out "clarified" their position to our satisfaction)

What I buy is based on what I think is best for me not what pleases anyone else.

Wow, someone saying a gun widely recognized as the lightest best balanced piston AR you can buy must be the same person setting up fake accounts.
That is embarrassing for you.


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Link Posted: 6/13/2013 5:37:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2013 6:04:25 AM EST by sessionfan]
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.


No actually it was the wording if your post that made me question you. It sounded very much like the same exact dribble wulfman puts out. I'm no knocking the system but the fact your post is worded very closely to what I'm used to seeing out of him I'm questioning your identity. If you wish to take this issue further I'll be standing by my inbox.

Your petty insults aren't going to get you far with me.


1, You really have a stupidly big freaking ego.

2. Who made you the identity/post police? refer to #1

3. How old are you? Your user name, avatar and shitty tone in every post I have found from you would not come form anyone who had gone through puberty. refer to #1

4. Dribble huh? Because wolfmann and I both like PWS and have positive things to say about them and we are not singing the praises of the rifle you own anything we say is dribble? You are just having a little pissy fit because almost everyone in this thread was recommending PWS and since you have nothing positive to add you come up with your usual negative garbage. refer to #1

5. I am not concerned with getting anywhere with you. You are the kind of person I like to avoid! refer to #1

6. Have fun standing by your inbox and as John Bon Jovi would say.....Have a nice day!


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Link Posted: 6/13/2013 6:05:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2013 6:09:32 AM EST by jasonusvi]
I originally got one LMT MRP because of the barrel change capability. I got a second because the first was flawless.

At this point I have 9 barrels for the pair but the suppressed 12.5" piston became my go to HD gun while I swap more on the other upper. In 556 I have 12.5" piston, 16" CL, 18" SS. In 300BLK I have two DI 10.5s (a Noveske and a new LMT). In 6.8 I have a DI 14.5" SS (chopped from LMT 18") and a standard DI 12.5" CL. I also have a 11.5" Spikes 22lr and an 18" BHW 6.5PCC with a Noveske Switch Block.

All those options would have cost a lot more as complete uppers. I picked up several of the barrels lightly used for around $200.

The LMT piston gun uses standard / non proprietary AR bolts (which is good because I have a bunch).

Would be nice if they released 12.5" 6.8 piston barrel.

12.5" piston & 10.5" Noveske 300BLK below:




"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty." John Basil Barnhill - 1914
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Link Posted: 6/13/2013 8:03:08 AM EST
Jasonusvi i know people who have LMTs for the same reasons and they are very happy with them.
Your position makes LMT the perfect choice for you.

Nice looking rigs

It would be a boring world if there was only one type of AR and there are variations that better suit each of us and for your requirements I too would have LMTs.


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Link Posted: 6/13/2013 5:50:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


All of this is absolutly true.

I had an LMT piston and honestly, I wasn't terribly impressed. It felt way heavier than it actually was and didn't balance very well for me. It was a solid 1.5 MOA carbine however and seemed to be reliable.

I sold it and bought a PWS Mk116 Mod 0 and haven't looked back. Comparatively, it felt like half the weight (even though it wasn't) and pointed and balanced extremely well. It's more accurate and just as reliable.

I'm a big time PWS fan.
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Link Posted: 6/13/2013 5:52:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


join date post count. Wulfman troll account?


Dude, You need a life! I guess in your little pea brain the fact that more then one person is a fan of PWS proves it must be a conspiracy. So lets play your little game. I have posted 6.5 times per month in the 4 months I have been a member and you have posted 160 times per month since you joined. Seems like you are over compensating for something....why not add to your post count with something useful instead of the above garbage.


No actually it was the wording if your post that made me question you. It sounded very much like the same exact dribble wulfman puts out. I'm no knocking the system but the fact your post is worded very closely to what I'm used to seeing out of him I'm questioning your identity. If you wish to take this issue further I'll be standing by my inbox.

Your petty insults aren't going to get you far with me.


What the hell?
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Link Posted: 6/14/2013 8:06:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2013 8:14:34 PM EST by jimmer_5]
Another vote for PWS here. I owned a Robinson Armament XCR and. I loved everything about it but the weight - it was just too heavy. I have a Ruger SR556CLA and it's a nice rifle, but still a bit muzzle heavy. When I got my PWS MK114 Mod 0, I was in love the first time I shot it. The balance is perfect, it's wonderfully light, it eats everything I feed it, and it is accurate as hell. I have one of the new Mod 1's on order, and. I am looking forward to comparing the two of them. The new key mod rail is a nice update and I like the adjustable gas and how the piston can split in two pieces without tools. The fact that you have to knock out a roll pin to remove the charging handle from the piston assembly was one of my only issues with the Mod 0.

I have nothing against LMT and I really like how well thought out the ADCOR system is, but the balance on my PWS is magic and it is way more accurate than I am. That's my recommendation.
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Link Posted: 6/16/2013 6:30:30 PM EST
Here's my thoughts on the matter. I own a PWS Mk114 "Mod 0" as they now call it. I bought it after handling the other two piston guns you mentioned as well as many others. The only one that felt nearly as light and well balanced was the LWRC Lightweight model with the Magpul handguard. I thought the long stroke was a better design and so went with the PWS.

Now, I have had problems with the PWS, namely steel cases sticking in the chamber right out of the box and after the chamber was scrubbed clean. Having said that, I haven't heard of any other PWS owners having this problem. PWS's customer service is also the absolute best. They have been awesome whenever I needed anything. Aside from the steel problem it has been 100% reliable through thousands of rounds of brass ammo. I'm not the best precision shooter but I can get close to 1.5 moa groups from my Mk114. It's more accurate than I am.

I am still entirely happy that I went with the PWS. I haven't shot one but the new Mod 0 looks even nicer. I would definitely at least handle your options before buying if you can't shoot them. Just my .02 but I think The PWS is hard to beat. The long stroke system is awesome in several different ways and definitely unique.
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Link Posted: 6/17/2013 1:15:27 AM EST
Another vote for LMT piston rifle.

Plus if you decide the piston feature isn't for you, you can always switch out the barrel and bolt carrier back to a true DI platform.

Finding one will be the hard part.
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Link Posted: 6/17/2013 9:42:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By JaketheSnake:
Another vote for LMT piston rifle.

Plus if you decide the piston feature isn't for you, you can always switch out the barrel and bolt carrier back to a true DI platform.

Finding one will be the hard part.


I will say that swapping out barrels was an extremely easy process. I was wry impressed with the system on my LMT. For me, it just wasn't that big of a deal as I never intended to do a lot of switching. If that's something that appeals to you, you'll be really happy with the LMT.
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Link Posted: 6/24/2013 6:03:34 AM EST
It seems like the consensus is the PWS.

What kind of accuracy are you getting with your PWS rifles ?
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Link Posted: 6/24/2013 11:40:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By elkman:
It seems like the consensus is the PWS.

What kind of accuracy are you getting with your PWS rifles ?


Both of mine are solid 1 MOA rifles. I'll get 3/4" @ 100 with match or handloads and maybe 1.5-2 MOA with mil-surp.... Sometimes a touch better. I've gotten 1MOA with IMI M193 and Lithuanian 7.62.

Hell, my Mk216 freakin' LOVES that crappy MFS steel cased ball. It's bizarre how accurate it is with that stuff.
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Link Posted: 6/24/2013 5:04:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By elkman:
It seems like the consensus is the PWS.

What kind of accuracy are you getting with your PWS rifles ?

No; LMT is my vote.
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Link Posted: 6/24/2013 6:58:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
PWS. The new Mod 1 is perfection at a reasonable price. As others stated it is DI rifle light and very well balanced. The fact that the PWS long stroke piston and carrier move together as one piece just makes more sense to me than the separate piston and carrier setup in a short stroke. Fit and finish are first rate and the new hand guard is not only light, functional and stupid good looking but is also slim and comfortable to hold without any accessories needed. Great customer service is icing on the cake!


All of this is absolutly true.

I had an LMT piston and honestly, I wasn't terribly impressed. It felt way heavier than it actually was and didn't balance very well for me. It was a solid 1.5 MOA carbine however and seemed to be reliable.

I sold it and bought a PWS Mk116 Mod 0 and haven't looked back. Comparatively, it felt like half the weight (even though it wasn't) and pointed and balanced extremely well. It's more accurate and just as reliable.

I'm a big time PWS fan.


I was able to work my LMT down to .75 MOA with a Trijicon Accupoint and 55 gr Hornady Steel Match

LMT MRP barrels are some of the most accurate chrome lined barrels out there.

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Link Posted: 6/28/2013 3:19:05 AM EST
LMT all the way. Mine is a tack driver. The fit and finish is the best I have seen.
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Link Posted: 6/28/2013 2:19:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2013 4:55:57 AM EST by Tommycanada]
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Link Posted: 6/28/2013 6:18:06 PM EST
Another vote for LMT. Started out with a 12" Piston Factory SBR and now have 5 different barrels for it. Extremely versatile if you want one rifle to do it all. And agree with previous poster about LMT Barrels - mine are .5MOA with quality ammo. My 2 cents ...
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Link Posted: 7/4/2013 7:15:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By RC51_Texas:
Another vote for LMT...if you want one rifle to do it all...



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Link Posted: 7/5/2013 5:43:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2013 5:45:14 PM EST by lethalppl]
I love my PWS... Looking to buy a 2nd one now

edit to add: Wulfmann is my troll account where I praise PWS
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Link Posted: 7/7/2013 4:25:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/7/2013 4:26:01 PM EST by sessionfan]
Originally Posted By lethalppl:
I love my PWS... Looking to buy a 2nd one now

edit to add: Wulfmann is my troll account where I praise PWS


No, I am wolfmann's troll account.....wait, so I am the troll account of the troll account? Wholly crap its all a giant conspiracy to praise PWS!!!
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Link Posted: 7/7/2013 7:32:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By lethalppl:
I love my PWS... Looking to buy a 2nd one now

edit to add: Wulfmann is my troll account where I praise PWS


No, I am wolfmann's troll account.....wait, so I am the troll account of the troll account? Wholly crap its all a giant conspiracy to praise PWS!!!


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Link Posted: 7/8/2013 6:57:34 AM EST
I had an Adcor and really liked it. LOVED the forward charging handle, and enjoyed shooting the gun.

HOWEVER,

I switched to PWS because I am a bigger fan of the "low pressure/high volume" long stroke piston system which is much more akin to the AK piston.

Fit and finish was also a little better on the PWS, but that's just aesthetics, not function.

I miss my Adcor, but don't regret my decision to switch to the PWS platform one bit.
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Link Posted: 7/8/2013 3:17:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2013 3:17:30 PM EST by 45-Seventy]
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By lethalppl:
I love my PWS... Looking to buy a 2nd one now

edit to add: Wulfmann is my troll account where I praise PWS


No, I am wolfmann's troll account.....wait, so I am the troll account of the troll account? Wholly crap its all a giant conspiracy to praise PWS!!!


This is why I'm my own troll account. Otherwise it gets too confusing.

In regards to my LMT, I should also mention that mine was a really, really early example and I've heard current production versions are more accurate.
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Link Posted: 7/8/2013 6:25:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By The_Evil_One:
Originally Posted By sessionfan:
Originally Posted By lethalppl:
I love my PWS... Looking to buy a 2nd one now

edit to add: Wulfmann is my troll account where I praise PWS


No, I am wolfmann's troll account.....wait, so I am the troll account of the troll account? Wholly crap its all a giant conspiracy to praise PWS!!!


http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/113/729/look-at-all-the-fucks-i-dont-give-theyre-just-falling-from-the-sky.jpg


You obviously do give a F or you would not have posted about it. You are the kind of person that brings forums down to a low level, Have a nice day dude!

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Link Posted: 7/9/2013 8:40:20 AM EST
Great luck with my LMT.
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Link Posted: 7/12/2013 5:11:13 AM EST
To the OP: I spent a year and a half researching out what rifle I wanted. I looked at pretty much every option out there (including platforms other than the AR). In the end, I settled on the PWS. The main things that swung it for me were the long-stroke piston system, the low weight, and their reputation for stellar customer service. As a benefit, because I drug the decision making process out for so long the Mod 1 had been released by the time I was ready to make my purchase. I bought a Mk114 Mod 1 about 3 months ago. I do not regret the purchase.
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Link Posted: 7/12/2013 5:49:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By jasonusvi:
I originally got one LMT MRP because of the barrel change capability. I got a second because the first was flawless.

At this point I have 9 barrels for the pair but the suppressed 12.5" piston became my go to HD gun while I swap more on the other upper. In 556 I have 12.5" piston, 16" CL, 18" SS. In 300BLK I have two DI 10.5s (a Noveske and a new LMT). In 6.8 I have a DI 14.5" SS (chopped from LMT 18") and a standard DI 12.5" CL. I also have a 11.5" Spikes 22lr and an 18" BHW 6.5PCC with a Noveske Switch Block.

All those options would have cost a lot more as complete uppers. I picked up several of the barrels lightly used for around $200.

The LMT piston gun uses standard / non proprietary AR bolts (which is good because I have a bunch).

Would be nice if they released 12.5" 6.8 piston barrel.

12.5" piston & 10.5" Noveske 300BLK below:
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/Sup3.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/Sup1.jpg



LMT for these reasons. You know you're gonna want another barrel
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