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lunareclipse02
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Posted: 7/26/2012 6:40:22 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
My close friend and I both bought an Adams Arms midlength upper. We have noticed that our upper recievers have small silver metal shavings iside the rifle. They usually land on the bcg. If you look closely they roller cam is also have some finish taken off and where the roller cam pivots inside the reciever is where it shaving the metal off. It looks like the roller cam and bolt are pivoting early and taking some metal off. We have called Adams Arms and they suggest a heavy buffer. So we bought an heavy buffer and the problem still exist. Does anyone else have this same problem or did we buy a wrong bunch from Adams Arms?? They will accept under warranty but I have to pay for the shipping there and back. I really dont want to do so unless this a common issue.....
Thanks
Lain
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Posted: 7/26/2012 7:48:06 PM
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 12:24:10 AM by Lain]
forget it
arcticwarrior
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Posted: 7/26/2012 10:51:40 PM
Hmmmm, I recently just started using my new AA upper. Is this a design flaw?
SolidSnake556
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Posted: 7/26/2012 10:54:46 PM
Are you talking about the wear inside the upper receiver where the cam pin rubs? If so that exist in most if not all Ar15's. Even the DI guns have the same wears.
silentbob343
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Posted: 7/27/2012 1:23:32 AM
Originally Posted By SolidSnake556:
Are you talking about the wear inside the upper receiver where the cam pin rubs? If so that exist in most if not all Ar15's. Even the DI guns have the same wears.


Yea I'm not following, pictures are worth a thousand words.

That said I have not seen any unusual wear patterns with my AA upper.
RTBA-8
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Posted: 7/27/2012 2:45:30 PM
Originally Posted By SolidSnake556:
Are you talking about the wear inside the upper receiver where the cam pin rubs? If so that exist in most if not all Ar15's. Even the DI guns have the same wears.


My AA kit dug a small trough at this location, no effect on function whatsoever.
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Go Noles!
Lain
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Posted: 7/27/2012 4:49:00 PM
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 12:24:51 AM by Lain]
......
lunareclipse02
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Posted: 7/27/2012 5:40:06 PM
[Last Edit: 7/27/2012 5:40:20 PM by lunareclipse02]
The damage is coming from the skis and the roller cam. I have seen slight shavings out of my DI but this is ecsessive. I have shot over a 1k rounds and it still does it compared to my DI. Any thoughts or should I complain to Adams Arms. Also does the spring in the BCG have any impact on this. Sorry no pic just yet been working 16 hours days all week.
Lain
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Posted: 7/27/2012 6:33:07 PM
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 12:25:09 AM by Lain]
.......
1MRBEAN
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Posted: 7/27/2012 8:01:33 PM
Lets see some pics , its much easier to tell if its usual wear or extreme.
Lain
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Posted: 7/27/2012 9:39:40 PM
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 12:25:27 AM by Lain]
......
silentbob343
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Posted: 7/27/2012 11:57:23 PM
Originally Posted By Lain:
http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7.jpg

http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7_2.jpg

http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7_3.jpg

http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7_4.jpg

Clearly the billet upper and the L upper haven't been fired but only a few times, hence the faint markings. AGAIN, this has NOTHING to do with the cam pin, roller or otherwise. Now for critical thinking extra credit. Who can identify which of these uppers have the OLD style carrier?


Hmm, my upper looks like the last picture.
SolidSnake556
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Posted: 7/28/2012 1:28:19 AM
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 1:29:24 AM by SolidSnake556]
I have a Huldra Arms and have no wears mentioned above, mine ran flawless.
SolidSnake556
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Posted: 7/28/2012 1:30:31 AM
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 1:31:20 AM by SolidSnake556]
Originally Posted By Lain:
Originally Posted By SolidSnake556:
Are you talking about the wear inside the upper receiver where the cam pin rubs? If so that exist in most if not all Ar15's. Even the DI guns have the same wears.


I am not speaking to the cam pin drag. As I said, the destructive action takes place FROM THE SKIS ON THE BOTTOM ASS END OF YOUR 1 PIECE BOLT CARRIER GROUP. In every adams system I have personally observed, those humps create corresponding damage where they touch the upper receiver. This is where the metal shavings are coming from. Look at the bottom of the carrier in this pic, see the raised "ski".

http://i41.tinypic.com/2vuk2tt.jpg


My bolt carrier looks different from that one, maybe that's an older bc? Also I don't work for AA.
Lain
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Posted: 7/28/2012 1:50:56 AM
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 12:25:49 AM by Lain]
.....
SolidSnake556
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Posted: 7/28/2012 4:50:37 AM
Mine looks just like this one:


I think yours is the older generation/model like this one:

1MRBEAN
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Posted: 7/28/2012 10:15:22 AM
Originally Posted By Lain:
http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7.jpg

http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7_2.jpg

http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7_3.jpg

http://www.use.com/images/s_3/ddd1f249135c9eaa39a7_4.jpg

Clearly the billet upper and the L upper haven't been fired but only a few times, hence the faint markings. AGAIN, this has NOTHING to do with the cam pin, roller or otherwise. Now for critical thinking extra credit. Who can identify which of these uppers have the OLD style carrier?


Are you posting pics for the OP ? if not start a new posting so we can keep these seperate. BTW never seen wear marks at that location, very strange.
Lain
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Posted: 7/28/2012 2:36:46 PM
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 12:27:09 AM by Lain]
..........
Lain
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Posted: 7/28/2012 2:45:59 PM
[Last Edit: 7/29/2012 12:26:10 AM by Lain]
1MRBEAN
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Posted: 7/28/2012 7:06:24 PM
Originally Posted By Lain:
Are you posting pics for the OP ? if not start a new posting so we can keep these seperate. BTW never seen wear marks at that location, very strange.


Did I say I was posting pics for the op? No, I said I was sharing my personal experiences with the Adams system in regard to metal shavings, precisely in line with what the op asked.


The OP has a cam pin area wear problem as stated in the first post, and you jump in and take over the thread with a rear reciever wear/rear carrier picture expo that has nothing to do with the original problem. I made the suggestion of creating a seperate thread because your problem is very interesting and would be easier to keep track of . Now i could care less about it , lets get back to helping the OP with his problem.
1MRBEAN
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Posted: 7/28/2012 7:16:21 PM
Originally Posted By lunareclipse02:
My close friend and I both bought an Adams Arms midlength upper. We have noticed that our upper recievers have small silver metal shavings iside the rifle. They usually land on the bcg. If you look closely they roller cam is also have some finish taken off and where the roller cam pivots inside the reciever is where it shaving the metal off. It looks like the roller cam and bolt are pivoting early and taking some metal off. We have called Adams Arms and they suggest a heavy buffer. So we bought an heavy buffer and the problem still exist. Does anyone else have this same problem or did we buy a wrong bunch from Adams Arms?? They will accept under warranty but I have to pay for the shipping there and back. I really dont want to do so unless this a common issue.....
Thanks


Your cam pin area wear is normal for both piston and DI rifles but is worse in the piston guns. What most people say is that the wear eventually stops . Many have bought the POW roller cam pin with great results. If you feel this wear should have stopped by now send it to AA. Have you noticed any bolt lug or chamber lug peening ?
Swat_dude
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Posted: 7/29/2012 12:00:33 AM
[Last Edit: 7/30/2012 1:41:41 AM by Swat_dude]
Cam pin wear is normal for all AR's. It is exasperated by piston guns do to the different operation but it is basically a result of the cam pin not being fully aligned behind the gas key or piston strke face.. In a DI gun, gases inside the bolt carrier, pushing against the ring seals, thrust the bolt forward out of the BCG. This usually assures the bolt is fully extended before the BCG unlocks and starts its travel to the rear. In a piston gun, the BCG is being pushed back. The only think keeping it unlocking is the lugs. Once the bolt has rotated and is free of the lugs, the BCG is free to move rearward. The cam pin may or may not have reached its full travel, aligned behind the piston "gas" key. It gouges into the upper, shaving the metal off you see stuck to the BCG. The good news is it will not continue to wear once it gouges out enough clearance where the cam pin sits when the bolt lugs free from the chamber lugs.

There are two things you can add to lessen the effect: First, a POF Roller Cam Pin which is round instead of square and rolls onto the portion of the upper where it would normally take chunks out. It will still wear this area, but not near as bad. Second is the Adams Arms spring if it isn't already installed. This mimics the action in a DI gun, pushing the bolt out of the front of the carrier and aligning the cam pin as it is releasing. I do both.

Roller Cam Pin

Now to address the hijacker. What you are experiencing is carrier tilt. This is also common in piston guns due to the off axis forces on by the op rod on the BCG. The "ski's" are there to minimize the effects of this, not hurt more. Some manufacturers add extra bearing surface at the front of the BCG to tighten up the tolerance a bit in the upper and minimize the play that can contribute to more tilt. While this will wear into the upper, typically where the buffer tube inserts into the upper, I have never seen it produce shavings like the Cam Pin gouge will. It tends to be more gradual and WEARS into the bottom rear of the upper so I think you may be exaggerating a bit. Curiously, my Barrett Rec7 has zero carrier tilt although the piston system is similar to my other piston AR's. It does, however, have slight wear in the cam pin area.
Armeddefender
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Posted: 7/29/2012 8:14:54 AM
OP, Agree normal cam pin wear.





Originally Posted By Lain:


Lain....very interesting...please start a thread on your upper wear. Older models we would expect to see such wear, but with the newer gen piston system they state they have eliminated wear. If you are running a newer piston system and already seeing wear then you have a valid complaint regardless if another person has said companies system and they don't see the same issue you are seeing.
mason22222
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Posted: 7/29/2012 9:38:42 PM
Can you post some pics?
mason22222
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Posted: 7/30/2012 7:17:29 PM
I have these wear marks in two of my DI rifles as well as my piston gun . I don't see a problem with this ,I built these rifles and phased matched everything so
i knew i was going to have wear marks because different metals are different materials ,one metal is always stronger than another to compensate impact on one another
so parts don't break, they wear in to each other ! All of them run flawlessly i haven't had a problem [:/