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Aaron556
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Posted: 7/11/2012 5:50:51 PM
[Last Edit: 7/11/2012 6:54:31 PM by Aaron556]
Got my new SIG516 in FDE today and I immediately noticed the gas block is very different. Not necessary bad, just different. I called SIG and asked them why my gas block is designed differently than what is pictured on the website and from what I've seen on this forum from other owners. The tech said it is different b/c SIG wanted to have/be able to use the same gas block/valve as the new SIG716 and I got one of the "new" rifles. I'm fine with that, I just wanted to know why. BTW...my SIG516 FDE has a born on date of 6/5/2012. Also, there are no "tooling" marks on my bolt carrier from when SIG changed their bolt carrier design (almost sued by LWRC). It looks very nice. I saw some pretty bad tooling marks from when SIG516 owners sent in their LWRC copy bolt carriers to SIG to get "revised".

The tech also said that there is a revised owners manual that shows the NEW gas block/valve design. Mine did not ship with it so he sent me a PDF copy. Now, I also noticed after taking the gas piston and valve out of the rifle that there are NO THREADS OF ANY KIND associated with the gas system. I've been reading tons of reviews by you folks that mentions how the gas valve threads into the gas block and how some folks don't like the threads, but I don't see threads ANYWHERE on this new design. Everywhere is smooth. You will also notice from the pictures that you no longer have to use the tip of a bullet or tool to press the detent to change the gas setting. You just press the big button with your finger and rotate the valve by hand (it's very stiff, so a bullet may help).

Another thing I noticed and have a question about are the gas settings. There are 4 settings on my gas valve as you can see on my photo. According to the manual the large hole is for Normal operation. The medium hole (valve at 12 o’clock) is for adverse conditions (it's in adverse in the picture). The small hole is for suppressed. X is off single shot.

For some reason I would think the large hole would be adverse and the medium would be normal. Are my settings the same as your settings? I always thought NORMAL SETTING was when the valve is in the vertical (12 & 6 o'clock) position. I'm thinking there is an error in the new manual the tech emailed me and the photos showing Position 1 and 2 were accidently switched.



Gas setting is at Normal in this pic.




Adverse setting in this pic (valve is at 12 o'clock).


I think this snapshot from the new "revised valve" owner's manual has the pictures switched incorrectly.



Notice in this snapshot of the "old" owner's manual it's switched. Valve in the vertical position is Normal setting.

Melvin_Johnson
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Posted: 7/11/2012 6:35:53 PM
Sweet! I have a 516 with the older gas block and the 716 with the newer block. I'm sure it does simplify things at the factory but I think it is an improvement over the older style since it doesn't require all the unscrewing to get the gas valve out. My compliant with the older style is that is was kind of a bear to unscrew once the threads were fouled with a little carbon.

Congrats on the new blaster. It looks great!
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/11/2012 6:38:09 PM
Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
Sweet! I have a 516 with the older gas block and the 716 with the newer block. I'm sure it does simplify things at the factory but I think it is an improvement over the older style since it doesn't require all the unscrewing to get the gas valve out. My compliant with the older style is that is was kind of a bear to unscrew once the threads were fouled with a little carbon.

Congrats on the new blaster. It looks great!


Melvin,

Can you confirm this picture is WRONG?

Melvin_Johnson
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Posted: 7/11/2012 6:46:22 PM
[Last Edit: 7/11/2012 6:47:25 PM by Melvin_Johnson]
Originally Posted By Aaron556:


Melvin,

Can you confirm this picture is WRONG?


I wish I had a definite answer for you but I don't. The markings on the new 516 block are different from the markings on the old block and also somewhat different from the markings on my 716. With that said I'm going to say that the small dot means suppressed, the middle dot is for regular service and the big dot is for fouled or cold weather use. That's how the dots are laid out on the rifles I've got.
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/11/2012 6:48:58 PM
Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:


Melvin,

Can you confirm this picture is WRONG?


I wish I had a definite answer for you but I don't. The markings on the new 516 block are different from the markings on the old block and also somewhat different from the markings on my 716. With that said I'm going to say that the small dot means suppressed, the middle dot is for regular service and the big dot is for fouled or cold weather use.


That's EXACTLY what I'm thinking. It only makes sense. Why would a large hole be Normal setting and the medium hole be Adverse?? Simple mistake in the manual I believe.
Melvin_Johnson
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Posted: 7/11/2012 6:58:41 PM
I'm sure it is a misprint.

Anyway, this is a great thing for the 516. Now we need someone to introduce a slightly longer handguard that extends out over the sides of the gas block to help isolate fingers from a hot part and to give a little additional real estate for accessories.
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/11/2012 7:02:36 PM
Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
I'm sure it is a misprint.

Anyway, this is a great thing for the 516. Now we need someone to introduce a slightly longer handguard that extends out over the sides of the gas block to help isolate fingers from a hot part and to give a little additional real estate for accessories.


I totally agree. I'm going to have to use a vertical grip on this sucker so I don't burn my hand.
BigRat
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Posted: 7/11/2012 8:00:58 PM
Wow, they did change that quite a bit. I have one of the very early models that had the recalled bolt carrier, of course they didn't give a reason for the recall way back then, otherwise I would have kept it LOL. They are great guns, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

BigRat
dogpile556
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Posted: 7/11/2012 8:21:56 PM
Piston parts look kinda like the Sig 556 stuff?
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/11/2012 9:27:10 PM
Originally Posted By dogpile556:
Piston parts look kinda like the Sig 556 stuff?


Similar, but different. I used to own a SIG556. In the 556 the piston was inside a "tube".
dogpile556
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Posted: 7/11/2012 11:03:18 PM
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Originally Posted By dogpile556:
Piston parts look kinda like the Sig 556 stuff?


Similar, but different. I used to own a SIG556. In the 556 the piston was inside a "tube".

Bingo, had one, sold it. It was excellent in ways but had some drawbacks I just could'nt get over.
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/12/2012 1:49:04 PM
[Last Edit: 7/12/2012 4:42:02 PM by Aaron556]
As requested , these are the pics of my SIG516 Gas System and BCG.

On this photo I would like to know if lube should be applied to this area behind what looks to be mini gas rings. They even have gaps that are staggered just like the gas rings on the bolt. Obviously no lube would go on the face of the gas piston in front of those rings.


Rear of the same rod.


The Piston (right) goes inside the Gas Valve (left). Again, you can see those mini gas rings on the Piston. Because of those rings when the Piston and Gas Valve are together it creates a seal that requires a little bit of force to pull apart (just like when removing the Bolt from the Bolt Carrier). This is why I'm thinking there SHOULD be lube on those mini gas ring, but I could be wrong. You can also see carbon fouling on the face of the Piston where it was tested at the factory.


This is the Gas Valve. I did some contrast editing so you folks could see the holes better. Notice how the medium sized hole has some "burning" around it. It's the ONLY one that does. This, to me, is even more evidence that the medium sized hole (not the large hole stated in the users manual) is the NORMAL setting as it is the only hole that shows that burn mark around it from where it was tested at the factory.


When I removed the BCG, I noticed that the color was different from any other BCG I have. It's not black at all, but rather a deep brown-bronze color. You might be able to tell from the photos. Also, after drying the BCG off and before applying my Slip2000 EWL, I noticed the all surfaces of the Bolt Carrier only (not the bolt itself) has a VERY slick feel. The color combined with the "dry, but wet" feel leads me to believe that there is some type of special coating on this Bolt Carrier. Can anyone confirm this?






This is one of the reasons I went with the SIG516. It uses a standard Bolt, unlike the HK416. But unlike the HK416, the SIG516 didn't kill Usama bin Laden. I do know from other users that the gas rings on the Bolt are optional and the rifle will run fine without them. This was confirmed by SIG. I just left them on b/c I didn't feel like taking them off.
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/12/2012 4:39:36 PM
[Last Edit: 7/12/2012 5:58:30 PM by Aaron556]
SIG Customer Service just called my cell phone and told me I was CORRECT! Apparently, just like I suspected, the pictures WERE INDEED SWITCHED by accident. Humans make mistakes, no big deal. The CS guy got the call from the local SIG516 expert on hand and told him they were switched. It's going to be changed before going to print.

Mystery solved. Vertical 12 and 6 o'clock position is Normal setting. 10 and 4 o'clock position is Adverse. End of story.


I forgot to mention when I was on the phone with SIG Customer Service he said my SIG516 was Gen2 and previous designs are Gen1. Guess I got lucky.

It's strange that SIG doesn't mention this on their website.

dogpile556
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Posted: 7/12/2012 8:23:09 PM
It appears the BC has some kinda coating. Cheers on the Slip2K EWL. That stuff is the bomb.
J-L
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Posted: 7/12/2012 9:23:23 PM
that rifle looks badass how much was it?

Aaron556
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Posted: 7/12/2012 10:35:45 PM
Originally Posted By J-L:
that rifle looks badass how much was it?



$1450 here
Melvin_Johnson
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Posted: 7/13/2012 4:45:24 PM
How does it shoot?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/13/2012 5:59:56 PM
Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
How does it shoot?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Wish I could tell you. I've been too busy remodeling my basement to even leave the house. I should be able to make it to the range within the next two weeks.
firemed13
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Posted: 7/13/2012 9:18:06 PM
Please give us a range report I was looking at getting that same model sig.
Mama, I'll see you again tonight in my head movies. But this head movies makes my eyes rain!
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/14/2012 9:31:06 AM
Originally Posted By firemed13:
Please give us a range report I was looking at getting that same model sig.


Can you give me an idea of what type of info you guys are looking for so I can prepare ahead of time? My range has 50 and 100 yard lanes. I will be using a fixed 4X optic (chevron reticle).
TLS1976
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Posted: 7/14/2012 9:34:35 AM
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Originally Posted By firemed13:
Please give us a range report I was looking at getting that same model sig.


Can you give me an idea of what type of info you guys are looking for so I can prepare ahead of time? My range has 50 and 100 yard lanes. I will be using a fixed 4X optic (chevron reticle).


Subscribed.
Any info is better than none. I would like to hear mostly about reliability and any performance issues you might have. Ive just put this same model on layaway. Mine has a "born on date" of June 12, 2012.
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidise it.
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Aaron556
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Posted: 7/14/2012 10:53:40 AM
[Last Edit: 7/14/2012 10:55:38 AM by Aaron556]
So far I can tell you the fit and finish is top notch. I've never had a weapon that had a Cerakote finish until now and I can tell you it looks MUCH better than the standard AR black hardcoat anodize. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Cerakote is applied OVER the hardcoat anodized finish. The FDE finish is also on the INSIDE of both the lower and upper receivers as well. I like this as it helps me see any fouling/grime with ease. There is zero play b/t the upper and lower receivers, but this aided by the rubber thingy in the lower that creates tension b/t the two halves. The tension is so tight that I can't remove the rear take-down pin without using the tip if something (like a bullet) it push it through so I can grab the other side. The rifle comes with a "H" weight buffer. I weighed it at exactly 3.75 oz. I'm going to replace it with Spike's Tactical ST-T2 Heavy Buffer that weighs about 4 oz. I know it works b/c I've read reviews on it's use with the SIG516.

Some folks complain that they don't like the length of the rail b/c it's too short. The way I look at it, if the rail were longer (like my 12" DD rail) the piston system would also have to be extended therefore adding more weight to the rifle. Remember, you can't hide the piston control valve under the rail to extend the rail past it like you can the Gas Block on a DI rifle. I'm not a big fan of extending my arm all the way out and grabbing the end of my rail Chris Costa style, even if everyone is doing it now. I might have to go with a vertical grip or the Magpul AFG (Angled Fore-Grip).

The safety lever has a VERY positive "click" when switching from SAFE to FIRE. It's the best I've ever experienced. Even better than my Bravo Company AR. It came with one FDE Magpul P-Mag. It drops freely without issue. The flip-up sights (BUIS) that came with the rifle are just OK. I've seen better (Midwest Ind. are my favorite). They are black metal, but don't feature a button that you press to unlock them. You just pull them up and push them down. There is no positive "click" with these sights where you feel them lock into place. They actually don't lock into place, but rather just stay in place until you push them down or pull them up. They are good enough that I probably won't replace them, after all they are BUIS. It sure beats the hell out of getting that crappy SIG red-dot that used to come with the SIG516. I think enough people complained that SIG is now shipping all current SIG516s with iron sights only. Good move.
Darith
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Posted: 7/14/2012 1:59:50 PM
[Last Edit: 7/14/2012 2:02:41 PM by Darith]
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
SIG Customer Service just called my cell phone and told me I was CORRECT! Apparently, just like I suspected, the pictures WERE INDEED SWITCHED by accident. Humans make mistakes, no big deal. The CS guy got the call from the local SIG516 expert on hand and told him they were switched. It's going to be changed before going to print.

Mystery solved. Vertical 12 and 6 o'clock position is Normal setting. 10 and 4 o'clock position is Adverse. End of story.


I forgot to mention when I was on the phone with SIG Customer Service he said my SIG516 was Gen2 and previous designs are Gen1. Guess I got lucky.

It's strange that SIG doesn't mention this on their website.



Great 516 thread and very nice macro pics, damn sexy 516 in fde you have there, congrats. Would you mind weighing your bolt carrier in lbs and oz? very good job on noticing the documentation correction as well. The new gas block valve design is awesome. A report on 100 or 100+ yard groupings would be great! I was able to take my 516 out to 300m so far.

BTW I just threw in JP reduced power springs bringing the trigger down to a 4.5lb pull just for about 10 bucks from Brownells.
Aaron556
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Posted: 7/14/2012 3:09:54 PM
[Last Edit: 7/14/2012 9:16:26 PM by Aaron556]
Originally Posted By Darith:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
SIG Customer Service just called my cell phone and told me I was CORRECT! Apparently, just like I suspected, the pictures WERE INDEED SWITCHED by accident. Humans make mistakes, no big deal. The CS guy got the call from the local SIG516 expert on hand and told him they were switched. It's going to be changed before going to print.

Mystery solved. Vertical 12 and 6 o'clock position is Normal setting. 10 and 4 o'clock position is Adverse. End of story.


I forgot to mention when I was on the phone with SIG Customer Service he said my SIG516 was Gen2 and previous designs are Gen1. Guess I got lucky.

It's strange that SIG doesn't mention this on their website.



Great 516 thread and very nice macro pics, damn sexy 516 in fde you have there, congrats. Would you mind weighing your bolt carrier in lbs and oz? very good job on noticing the documentation correction as well. The new gas block valve design is awesome. A report on 100 or 100+ yard groupings would be great! I was able to take my 516 out to 300m so far.

BTW I just threw in JP reduced power springs bringing the trigger down to a 4.5lb pull just for about 10 bucks from Brownells.


Did you want the weight of just the carrier by itself?

The bolt and carrier together weigh exactly 9.50 ounces. I would like to know how much less my BCG weighs compared to the original LWRC copy. I would also be curious to know if a LWRC BCG would fit AND function in the SIG516. Logic tells me that it would (SIG516 original BCG was an EXACT copy of LWRC BCG), but I don't have the balls nor the money to find out.

How did yours do at 300m?
Darith
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Posted: 7/15/2012 3:27:49 PM
[Last Edit: 7/15/2012 5:17:30 PM by Darith]
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Originally Posted By Darith:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
SIG Customer Service just called my cell phone and told me I was CORRECT! Apparently, just like I suspected, the pictures WERE INDEED SWITCHED by accident. Humans make mistakes, no big deal. The CS guy got the call from the local SIG516 expert on hand and told him they were switched. It's going to be changed before going to print.

Mystery solved. Vertical 12 and 6 o'clock position is Normal setting. 10 and 4 o'clock position is Adverse. End of story.


I forgot to mention when I was on the phone with SIG Customer Service he said my SIG516 was Gen2 and previous designs are Gen1. Guess I got lucky.

It's strange that SIG doesn't mention this on their website.



Great 516 thread and very nice macro pics, damn sexy 516 in fde you have there, congrats. Would you mind weighing your bolt carrier in lbs and oz? very good job on noticing the documentation correction as well. The new gas block valve design is awesome. A report on 100 or 100+ yard groupings would be great! I was able to take my 516 out to 300m so far.

BTW I just threw in JP reduced power springs bringing the trigger down to a 4.5lb pull just for about 10 bucks from Brownells.


Did you want the weight of just the carrier by itself?

The bolt and carrier together weigh exactly 9.50 ounces. I would like to know how much less my BCG weighs compared to the original LWRC copy. I would also be curious to know if a LWRC BCG would fit AND function in the SIG516. Logic tells me that it would (SIG516 original BCG was an EXACT copy of LWRC BCG), but I don't have the balls nor the money to find out.

How did yours do at 300m?


Bolt carrier by itself if you can. It's true, the bolt carriers has some sort of low-friction coating (which may or may not require lubing, but I lube it anyway). Here is my 516 with 62gr Tula FMJ Russian Steel at 300 meters (first time) with a 4mph wind on a 12" target with a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 Long Range reticle:


Aaron556
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Posted: 7/15/2012 9:52:57 PM
Originally Posted By Darith:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Originally Posted By Darith:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
SIG Customer Service just called my cell phone and told me I was CORRECT! Apparently, just like I suspected, the pictures WERE INDEED SWITCHED by accident. Humans make mistakes, no big deal. The CS guy got the call from the local SIG516 expert on hand and told him they were switched. It's going to be changed before going to print.

Mystery solved. Vertical 12 and 6 o'clock position is Normal setting. 10 and 4 o'clock position is Adverse. End of story.


I forgot to mention when I was on the phone with SIG Customer Service he said my SIG516 was Gen2 and previous designs are Gen1. Guess I got lucky.

It's strange that SIG doesn't mention this on their website.



Great 516 thread and very nice macro pics, damn sexy 516 in fde you have there, congrats. Would you mind weighing your bolt carrier in lbs and oz? very good job on noticing the documentation correction as well. The new gas block valve design is awesome. A report on 100 or 100+ yard groupings would be great! I was able to take my 516 out to 300m so far.

BTW I just threw in JP reduced power springs bringing the trigger down to a 4.5lb pull just for about 10 bucks from Brownells.


Did you want the weight of just the carrier by itself?

The bolt and carrier together weigh exactly 9.50 ounces. I would like to know how much less my BCG weighs compared to the original LWRC copy. I would also be curious to know if a LWRC BCG would fit AND function in the SIG516. Logic tells me that it would (SIG516 original BCG was an EXACT copy of LWRC BCG), but I don't have the balls nor the money to find out.

How did yours do at 300m?


Bolt carrier by itself if you can. It's true, the bolt carriers has some sort of low-friction coating (which may or may not require lubing, but I lube it anyway). Here is my 516 with 62gr Tula FMJ Russian Steel at 300 meters (first time) with a 4mph wind on a 12" target with a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 Long Range reticle:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/darith27/IMAG1492-1.jpg


The carrier by itself weighs 7.40 ounces. While I had the bolt out I removed the gas rings. They're not needed. It also smoothed out the cycling a bit. Did you remove your gas rings? What does your carrier weigh?


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