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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:42:47 AM EST
JUST WANTED OPINIONS ON THE BEST PISTON AR TODAY.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:51:49 AM EST
I'm sure there will be plenty of HK 416 answers with no experience behind the weapon.
Seeing as I have no experience with the 416, I would say POF.

Bench shooting is fun but I highly doubt I'll ever defend my life from the bench.
Train hard, shoot straight and continue mission.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 7:01:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By DIESELSMOKE:
JUST WANTED OPINIONS ON THE BEST PISTON AR TODAY.


There's not one that's "BEST" at this point in time. All have a unique take on how to replace the gas tube with a piston with most designs being similar to each other. PWS and RRA are probably the two designs that are the most unique. The HK, while not perfect, is probably going to be the most widely tested and used rifle, at least from a military standpoint.

Which rifle offers the features you want? Which rifle seems to offer the best value for the money? These questions are more easily answered...
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Posted: 7/3/2011 7:03:22 AM EST
LWRC is King
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Posted: 7/3/2011 7:13:24 AM EST
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Posted: 7/3/2011 7:50:02 AM EST
(AKA Junior)
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Posted: 7/3/2011 7:54:02 AM EST
AK...............
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Posted: 7/3/2011 8:03:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/3/2011 8:40:26 AM EST by NorthStaR209]
Originally Posted By GreenM4Guy:
I think you'll get about 100 different answers depending on who you ask.


X2, Do you want a piston built upper or a retro fit? My piston of choice is my LMT MRP cqb, sold my bulky heavy POF for it. Sort of like rack grade AR vs. boutique imo.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 8:05:15 AM EST
Who makes the best fried chicken?

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Posted: 7/3/2011 8:13:59 AM EST
You and I seem to be in the same boat. Buying my first AR and looking at "pistons." Have found LMT and Ruger to be the most talked about and I'm trying to decide between the 2.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 8:21:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/3/2011 8:23:17 AM EST by KILLERB6]
Originally Posted By Plissken:
LWRC is King


This.

FWIW, it's the only other (besides HK) piston AR with combat use.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 9:45:36 AM EST
ADCOR!!!!!!! But in all seriousness listen to melvin. He is completely right there is no best. Only what you think is best and what you want.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 10:47:26 AM EST
What about Ruger?
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Posted: 7/3/2011 10:54:07 AM EST
You get what you pay for.

LWRC, followed by HK.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 11:55:40 AM EST
Out of the ones I've tried, I bought a PWS. Oh, and an adams arms. I like the PWS more though.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 12:38:37 PM EST
My LMT, duh.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 1:20:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By revo357:
My LMT, duh.



No!

My LMT is better!
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Posted: 7/3/2011 1:49:31 PM EST
Speaking of LWRC, has anyone seen one of these?


http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=139339
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Posted: 7/3/2011 2:09:18 PM EST

I'm very happy with my Adcor BEAR thus far. While the new design is very promising, it is obviously relatively new, so there's some risk involved. Seems to be working just find for everyone, though.

If I had wanted a more proven design, I probably would have gone with an LWRC A2 or A3. I also really like how you can get them CeraKoted from the factory.


The HK MR556 is obviously a contender, but I don't understand why it weighs so much.

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Posted: 7/3/2011 2:16:54 PM EST
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Posted: 7/3/2011 3:20:56 PM EST
I'm voting POF. Amazing barrels, no springs in the piston, and the NP3 coat is amazing. That being said, it all comes down to personal preference. Look at the different systems and see what fits you the most. Look for the features you want and avoid those you don't.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 5:12:38 PM EST
I have an Adams arms middy and a lwrc m6a2 I like both but I haven't put very many rounds through the lwrc yet to really judge. I have not had any problems with the Adams arms in over 2000 rounds of all types of ammo.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:01:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By lotsagas4u:
Speaking of LWRC, has anyone seen one of these?


http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=139339


LWRC has churned out a huge let down on the first round of these UCIW units. They DO NOT have the new ambi lower or the mini-sopmod stock from SHOT show. That is crap, not to mention their pricing is seriously out of whack. Especially for something that you cannot even break down in the field in any sort of decent time-frame. A $10 car stock on a $2400 rig? Non-milspec buffer extension. You probably couldn't put a can on it if you wanted to because the FH indexes behind the awkward little thumbscrews. This thing is not worth $2000 much less $2400. IMHO - You can do better by yourself from scratch for much less.

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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:05:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By biggyskater86:
I have an Adams arms middy and a lwrc m6a2 I like both but I haven't put very many rounds through the lwrc yet to really judge. I have not had any problems with the Adams arms in over 2000 rounds of all types of ammo.


I am very interested in your findings. Please let us know your thoughts after say 2-3000 rounds down range with each. I think that you will see that, despite the exorbitantly high price of the LWRC, neither will out do the other my much in any department other than the fact that the AA is much quicker to clean and has the adjustable gas block.

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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:15:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By EveryKneeShallBow:
Originally Posted By lotsagas4u:
Speaking of LWRC, has anyone seen one of these?


http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=139339


LWRC has churned out a huge let down on the first round of these UCIW units. They DO NOT have the new ambi lower or the mini-sopmod stock from SHOT show. That is crap, not to mention their pricing is seriously out of whack. Especially for something that you cannot even break down in the field in any sort of decent time-frame. A $10 car stock on a $2400 rig? Non-milspec buffer extension. You probably couldn't put a can on it if you wanted to because the FH indexes behind the awkward little thumbscrews. This thing is not worth $2000 much less $2400. IMHO - You can do better by yourself from scratch for much less.



You realize those weapons were developed for a specific foreign military contract? They weren't developed with civilian sales in mind and the price is a reflection of the "collectors premium" of that weapon (allegedly 1 of 4 in private hands in the US). If I were looking for a weapon of that type I would get the PSD, unless I was a collector of such things.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:24:37 PM EST
my LWRC M6A2 SPR is unbelievable- so solid, shoots anything ive run thru it, well balanced and accurate- truly a modern classic. just find one and shoulder/shoot it for yourself- then decide.
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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:35:56 PM EST
Have POF in 308 and 556. Very happy with both.

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Posted: 7/3/2011 6:50:13 PM EST
Happy w/ my LRWCi M6A2
3 years
she is between 20K and 24K rds. down range, and quite accurate.
Keep the springs and cups changed out @ 5K intervals, keep propriatory piston assembly spares.
and shoot w/ confidence.

Let her eat, she eats it all..................

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Posted: 7/3/2011 7:50:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2011 5:18:50 PM EST by Accomplice1]
Originally Posted By mcspecialed:
Out of the ones I've tried, I bought a PWS. Oh, and an adams arms. I like the PWS more though.


I'm digging the PWS models also. Not enough rounds down range yet to say how the Diablo is but so far it has run perfectly on cheap ammo. The MK114 and MK214 will get their first range trip this weekend.

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Posted: 7/4/2011 8:51:21 AM EST
My vote would be the Primary Weapons System MK 114 because I really like their long stroke system. No harsh impact of two metal parts bashing into one another. Plus the carrier is supported by the op rod vs supported by the upper receiver and buffer tube. So with the carrier supported/connected by the op rod and the PWS buffer tube...there is zero carrier tilt and super easy field strip. Just like an AK but with AR accuracy, modularity and ergo's.

Still not perfect though since the charging handle is still in your face. I'd rather have a forward mounted non reciprocating ambidextrous charging handle like the ACR or RRA PDS but like anything else it has its pro's & con's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTrVEYA_Yk
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Posted: 7/4/2011 9:57:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By runwhatyabrung:
My vote would be the Primary Weapons System MK 114 because I really like their long stroke system. No harsh impact of two metal parts bashing into one another. Plus the carrier is supported by the op rod vs supported by the upper receiver and buffer tube. So with the carrier supported/connected by the op rod and the PWS buffer tube...there is zero carrier tilt and super easy field strip. Just like an AK but with AR accuracy, modularity and ergo's.

Still not perfect though since the charging handle is still in your face. I'd rather have a forward mounted non reciprocating ambidextrous charging handle like the ACR or RRA PDS but like anything else it has its pro's & con's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTrVEYA_Yk


Sounds to me like you need an ADCOR BEAR then.
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Posted: 7/4/2011 11:52:21 AM EST
My complaint with the PWS system is that it gets crazy hot. The top rail is also the gas tube and, after a couple mags, the forend is too hot to touch. Add the fact that the side and bottom rails are connected to the gas block and you've got some heat transfer there, as well.

I have also found the PWS will still give you "gas eye" like a DI gun since the propellent gasses blow down a gas tube right into the upper.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 6:53:47 AM EST
I too came here seeking advice on buying a piston. I was considering LWRC, LMT and POF all fine weapons.

I had never heard of PWS but when it was mentioned I checked them out and found they, IMO, had a superior piston design. Most pistons are over the gas block and they drive a rod back against the bolt carrier key and while these now work fine that places the weight over the muzzle and they are nose heavy.

The PWS gas system is based on the AK47/Daewoo tailored to an AR.
It has a piston rod connected to the bolt carrier as one unit.
This means no springs and the entire group comes out easily to clean (hardly needs it but I like to wipe the bore)
It also means the weight is over the bolt not the muzzle so it is neutrally balanced like a DI gun and that was important to me.
Balance may not be as important for bench shooting at the range but off hand close combat to me it was a very important factor.
I have a front grip on my PWS so have not noticed any problem with heat build up.

This gun to me is my go to end of the world has to function in the most varied ways of use of any gun I own.
I have considered and shot many of the possibilities and most are fine weapons and if you bought any of them you would likely be posting your satisfaction now.

If you can try any you are considering you may find aspects you prefer over another. If balanced weight matters PWS is a clear choice. It is also much cheaper meaning you can buy an EOTech or Aimpoint and a case of ammo and still take your lady out for a night on the town for the same money


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Posted: 7/5/2011 8:03:53 AM EST
I'm very happy with my LWRCs. They are a bit on the heavy side due to the barrel contour, but function great. I do wish the barrel profile was smaller on them.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 9:35:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2011 9:40:35 AM EST by runwhatyabrung]
LWRC is top notch no doubt but I am just not a fan of any spring cup design no matter who makes it.


I too like the PWS design since its got a bolt and op rod connected just like an AK bolt. I think this is key to stability and stopping carrier tilt in my opinion.

I also like the bolt of the RRA PDS. Along with its forward mounted charging handle that is ambidextrous and non-reciprocating. Very smart design. And it allows for a folding stock!


ADCOR B.E.A.R. is also incredibly smart too with its bolt design, forward mounted, ambi, non reciprocating charging handle. And free float barrel to boot!!!!

Its a tough call with the new offerings today. I know people will say "too many proprietary parts" but thats just life when you are innovative I guess?
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Posted: 7/5/2011 11:45:00 AM EST
Only two systems have any combat experience and input from that combat experience incorporated into their designs. Of those two companies, only one of them is selling a rifle that is a semi auto version of those combat proven/improved weapons, the other company is selling a match rifle version. LWRC all day everyday.

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Posted: 7/5/2011 12:56:09 PM EST
Paul Howe's got an approved model through PWS. Paul's a no nonsense kind of guy and wouldn't put his name on it if he didn't see some merit in their system.

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Posted: 7/5/2011 1:27:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
Paul Howe's got an approved model through PWS. Paul's a no nonsense kind of guy and wouldn't put his name on it if he didn't see some merit in their system.

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/catalog/PWS_MK116_556_CSAT_L_1.jpg


He put his name on an LWRC M6A1-S as well, for what it's worth:

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?1150-My-New-LWRC-Paul-Howe-Package!
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Posted: 7/5/2011 1:33:58 PM EST
In his "Make Ready" video he's sporting a LT Stealth.

I guess there's multiple ways to skin a cat.

I would really like to try a PWS someday though.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 2:11:23 PM EST
Stag 8, best value piston.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 5:34:40 PM EST
POF or B.E.A.R. Elite.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 6:15:35 PM EST
Have owned a bunch of LWRC's with many thousands of rounds fired. Never the first hint of a problem. They also come with some really nice accessories. I like my 5.56's so much I just ordered the 308 (repr) version. Good luck.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 6:30:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Plissken:
LWRC is King


I agree!
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Posted: 7/5/2011 7:36:02 PM EST
The main reason I like the POF over the LWRC is the NP3 coatings and the long term reliability/accuracy that comes out of the guns.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 8:05:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2011 8:06:00 PM EST by Plissken]
NP3 coating as in the colored anodizing? More of a cosmetic detail than a functional one, no?

As far as accuracy/reliability, debatable, to say nothing of the unnecessary weight and bulk.
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Posted: 7/5/2011 8:43:10 PM EST
NP3 also offers lubricity and wear resistance. As long as the coating is also applied to the interior, it should have its benefits. On the exterior, it should offer some wear resistance above normal anodizing as well as the obvious "bling" factor.
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Posted: 7/6/2011 4:05:11 AM EST
POF is generally also 1-1.5 pounds heavier than LWRC's comparable models. I would also like to add that EXO and NiCorr are surface conversions where NP3 is a teflon coating. I would guess both are great, but I would think a surface conversion would be much more effective and last longer.
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Posted: 7/6/2011 3:15:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2011 3:16:24 PM EST by NorthStaR209]
Originally Posted By Sleeper396:
POF is generally also 1-1.5 pounds heavier than LWRC's comparable models. I would also like to add that EXO and NiCorr are surface conversions where NP3 is a teflon coating. I would guess both are great, but I would think a surface conversion would be much more effective and last longer.


I never had the NP3 wear off when I owned my POF, but 1-1.5lbs is almost being generous. Damn things are HEAVY.
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Posted: 7/6/2011 5:15:18 PM EST
there is no need to adjust gas pressure for the pws(suppressor use). it is a very simple desgn and i really like mine. if you get 1 you won't regret it. the system just works no mater the length of the barrel.
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Posted: 7/7/2011 8:01:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By db_17_85:
I'm voting POF. Amazing barrels, no springs in the piston, and the NP3 coat is amazing. That being said, it all comes down to personal preference. Look at the different systems and see what fits you the most. Look for the features you want and avoid those you don't.

I use my POF for those long shots with a scope and bipod, so the weight and fat handguard don't matter to me. The extra weight helps to stabilize my shot.
Love my POF !!!

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Posted: 7/8/2011 2:54:34 PM EST
Many good pistons available. I'm very happy with my 5.45 Adams Arms. Light, not nose heavy. Ports the gas in the right direction. Mine has been reliable with even the dirtiest, crappiest, steel case surplus ammo. Eats black box Wolf no prob. Accurate. Simple design with all parts user accessible. Love the Melonite treatment. Like it enough that I'm ordering another in 5.56.
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