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Basic
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Posted: 9/9/2010 5:28:01 PM EST
Has anyone with a BM Gas Piston Carbine (from the factory...not an after market gas piston) ever experienced the operating rod's tip breaking?

I thought I had a round jam and after finally taking out the gas plug and the gas piston, I found that the tip on the operating rod that is pushed by the gas piston was broken from the rest of the rod. The weapon has about 3500 rds through it and has been cleaned and lubed regularly.

I called BM on Tuesday and they had never heard of it happening. They passed me on to an area for technical problems and the woman sounded clueless and took down my information and said they'd speak to one of the gunsmiths and get back to me. Still waiting for that "we'll call you Wednesday" call and will scream Friday.

Manual drawing of system

Actual photo of broken operating rod

Thanks,
Walsh
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Posted: 9/9/2010 6:47:00 PM EST
Looks like the rod was not hardened properly –– to hard, or there was just a flaw that caused a crack there. I sure hope they call and make it right.
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Posted: 9/9/2010 7:17:54 PM EST

Yep, you got a faulty made op rod. It happens. It's why it's always good to have spares. That's a POF design rod Bushy licenses from POF. I know Bushy started making their own parts for the system, but got them straight from POF before. No knowing who made that one, but it's an easy replace. Sorry for your troubles.



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Posted: 9/9/2010 9:32:00 PM EST
First thought is there's not supposed to be an oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.
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Posted: 9/10/2010 9:36:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be an oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.


Great post, that solves his problem. Take that crap anywhere but the GAS PISTON FORUM.

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Posted: 9/10/2010 11:02:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be an oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.


Great post, that solves his problem. Take that crap anywhere but the GAS PISTON FORUM.


I lol at this every time.
The dust must flow.
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Posted: 9/10/2010 11:18:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By avatarhammer:
Looks like the rod was not hardened properly –– to hard, or there was just a flaw that caused a crack there. I sure hope they call and make it right.


No call and they have had "leave your number all day".


I was going to shoot in a steel match tomorrow, but at almost 200 rds I'm not shooting my 6.8spc. I don't have but 50 rds reloaded and I don't want to spend about $85 for what is essentially fast plinking.


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Posted: 9/10/2010 11:20:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be an oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.


Great post, that solves his problem. Take that crap anywhere but the GAS PISTON FORUM.



The rod sets in the bolt to (help) cycle the round.

Was there a Travel and Leisure section it should have been in?

Walsh
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Posted: 9/10/2010 11:39:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Walsh:

The rod sets in the bolt to (help) cycle the round.

Was there a Travel and Leisure section it should have been in?

Walsh

I don't think he means that this isn't the place for your post, I think he's saying that this post (questioning the reason behind piston ARs) has no business in the Piston forum:

Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be a oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.
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Posted: 9/10/2010 1:14:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By GroupB:
Originally Posted By Walsh:

The rod sets in the bolt to (help) cycle the round.

Was there a Travel and Leisure section it should have been in?

Walsh

I don't think he means that this isn't the place for your post, I think he's saying that this post (questioning the reason behind piston ARs) has no business in the Piston forum:

Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be a oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.


Do we only discuss good things in the "piston forum"?
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Posted: 9/10/2010 1:15:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be an oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.


Great post, that solves his problem. Take that crap anywhere but the GAS PISTON FORUM.



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Posted: 9/10/2010 2:59:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 3:02:51 PM EST by Spooky574]
Originally Posted By Walsh:
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be an oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.


Great post, that solves his problem. Take that crap anywhere but the GAS PISTON FORUM.



Que?


Sorry bud, it just gets really old when people come to the Piston section of the forum to crap on the piston guns. It has been debated a million times and there is no right answer. Some prefer one to the other and a post where someone is asking for advice and gets "I told you so, DI is better"....... this is not the place to debate.

I have never had a rod break on any of my piston guns. I have an Adams, Osprey and an Addax ATAC (as well as 4 DI guns). I agree that it is probably bad heat treating and I'm pretty sure they will make it right. Good luck!

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Posted: 9/10/2010 3:01:54 PM EST
Yea, what he said
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Posted: 9/10/2010 6:13:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 6:13:45 PM EST by Walsh]
Originally Posted By Spooky574:


Sorry bud, it just gets really old when people come to the Piston section of the forum to crap on the piston guns.



What in blazes are you talking about? You've got 95 posts on-board and what is decidedly NOT a post bitching about piston guns gets "really old"?

I wrote:

Has anyone with a BM Gas Piston Carbine (from the factory...not an after market gas piston) ever experienced the operating rod's tip breaking?

I thought I had a round jam and after finally taking out the gas plug and the gas piston, I found that the tip on the operating rod that is pushed by the gas piston was broken from the rest of the rod. The weapon has about 3500 rds through it and has been cleaned and lubed regularly.

I called BM on Tuesday and they had never heard of it happening. They passed me on to an area for technical problems and the woman sounded clueless and took down my information and said they'd speak to one of the gunsmiths and get back to me. Still waiting for that "we'll call you Wednesday" call and will scream Friday.


There's not a scintilla (look it up) of "crapping" on gas piston guns in what I wrote. IOW, you should have kept your mouth shut as you had ZERO to add to the discussion. If there is any "crapping" it's you on the thread. Troll f-in city here on ARFCOM, once again!

My post was to see if anyone else experienced this, and in particular with a BM gun, as it could be the cause for a recall because you gun goes D-E-A-D. And if you knew and practiced anything about clearing problems under pressure you would have known that you will spend a few minutes trying to get it back into action, not realizing that its the piston rod because it is an EXTREMELY well hidden problem, so the piston rod is not thought of as the problem.

Sorry I fuckin' bothered, "bud"....I didn't know another self-appointed MASTER OF THE WEAPONS WORLD was going to get his rocks of with a bullshit reply telling people they should go post elsewhere. I'd not have posted if I knew you had a little tin star on and were the sheriff here. Any cattle roaming around also?

Walsh

P.S. I own an LWRC 6.8spc and an LWRC 5.56. Both are piston units and even after using a Colt 6920 I would chose either of them as my primary weapon over the Colt. Not that bringing that up is any of your business. I just don't want the casual reader thinking someone else is "crapping" on a gas piston unit if they are weighing a decision on what to buy.


NOTE: To those seriously looking at this issue there was still no reply to voice mail or e-mail from BM on Friday at closing time since my call and e-mail on Tuesday.
I have no complaints about the weapon itself. Except for this problem it's been a fine gun. But if another manufacturer would have had a rod to me by FedEx the next day, you might want to consider customer service when purchasing.
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Posted: 9/10/2010 6:22:53 PM EST
Walsh,

Spooky574 was NOT referring to your post! - He WAS, however, referring to puskrat's post!
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Posted: 9/10/2010 9:45:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By avatarhammer:
Looks like the rod was not hardened properly –– to hard, or there was just a flaw that caused a crack there. I sure hope they call and make it right.


Actually, you are half right. The op rod they are using is known as a Core Pin or Shedder Pin, they are used in stamping and injection molding dies. They are made from hardened O1, but the heads are drawn back to make them not so brittle.

I'll bet if the OP measures the diameter it will me a common nominal size, same with the head's diameter and thickness. The good news is that a box of op rods is going to be dirt cheap from now on....
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Posted: 9/11/2010 2:04:46 AM EST
+1 http://ppunch.com/core-pins-spec.htm
(place legal disclosure and safety warning here)
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Posted: 9/11/2010 5:55:44 AM EST
Walsh, spooky was talking about puskrat, not you.

Apologize to spooky. LOL

JB Weld?

BM CS sucks, just be ready for a WAIT.
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Posted: 9/11/2010 1:08:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Walsh:
Originally Posted By Spooky574:


Sorry bud, it just gets really old when people come to the Piston section of the forum to crap on the piston guns.



What in blazes are you talking about? You've got 95 posts on-board and what is decidedly NOT a post bitching about piston guns gets "really old"?

I wrote:

Has anyone with a BM Gas Piston Carbine (from the factory...not an after market gas piston) ever experienced the operating rod's tip breaking?

I thought I had a round jam and after finally taking out the gas plug and the gas piston, I found that the tip on the operating rod that is pushed by the gas piston was broken from the rest of the rod. The weapon has about 3500 rds through it and has been cleaned and lubed regularly.

I called BM on Tuesday and they had never heard of it happening. They passed me on to an area for technical problems and the woman sounded clueless and took down my information and said they'd speak to one of the gunsmiths and get back to me. Still waiting for that "we'll call you Wednesday" call and will scream Friday.


There's not a scintilla (look it up) of "crapping" on gas piston guns in what I wrote. IOW, you should have kept your mouth shut as you had ZERO to add to the discussion. If there is any "crapping" it's you on the thread. Troll f-in city here on ARFCOM, once again!

My post was to see if anyone else experienced this, and in particular with a BM gun, as it could be the cause for a recall because you gun goes D-E-A-D. And if you knew and practiced anything about clearing problems under pressure you would have known that you will spend a few minutes trying to get it back into action, not realizing that its the piston rod because it is an EXTREMELY well hidden problem, so the piston rod is not thought of as the problem.

Sorry I fuckin' bothered, "bud"....I didn't know another self-appointed MASTER OF THE WEAPONS WORLD was going to get his rocks of with a bullshit reply telling people they should go post elsewhere. I'd not have posted if I knew you had a little tin star on and were the sheriff here. Any cattle roaming around also?

Walsh

P.S. I own an LWRC 6.8spc and an LWRC 5.56. Both are piston units and even after using a Colt 6920 I would chose either of them as my primary weapon over the Colt. Not that bringing that up is any of your business. I just don't want the casual reader thinking someone else is "crapping" on a gas piston unit if they are weighing a decision on what to.



Wait, what? lol, I'll just refer to my first post. Please note the quote to whom I was replying to. Have a nice day!

"Bud"
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Originally Posted By puskrat:
First thought is there's not supposed to be an oprod in an AR. adding extra parts, while an interesting marketing gimmick, can lead to problems.


Great post, that solves his problem. Take that crap anywhere but the GAS PISTON FORUM.



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Posted: 9/11/2010 7:25:55 PM EST
3500+ no issues. Well maintained. I have often wonder about that connection. I will NDT mine Monday and post results! Call them back and ask for a tech rep. that has balls!
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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:00:12 AM EST
LOL! Walsh, Spooky is clearly on your side and actually defended you from a "Troll attack". Tell him "Thanks man."
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Posted: 9/13/2010 2:22:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 2:26:18 PM EST by Tree-Rat]
ANY negative comments concerning piston designs in the piston forum = TROLL.

This is becoming a trend it appears. No sense having any objective dissusion at all I guess?


TR
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Posted: 9/13/2010 3:27:51 PM EST
HaHa thats like going to the DI forum and saying "oh your gas tube ruptured, should've went piston" ??? What an idiot Clown Dick
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Posted: 9/13/2010 5:27:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tree-Rat:
ANY negative comments concerning piston designs in the piston forum = TROLL.

This is becoming a trend it appears. No sense having any objective dissusion at all I guess?

TR

Not at all. If a thread is started asking for opinions on which is better -DI Vs piston, then discuss away. A thread where someone is asking for help or advice with a problem is not the place for that debate. IMHO of course.

I'm interested to see if BM makes good with their equipment.
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Posted: 9/14/2010 12:27:11 PM EST
I thought the bushy product was the Ares kit not POF? correct me if I'm wrong.
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Posted: 9/14/2010 2:45:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
I thought the bushy product was the Ares kit not POF? correct me if I'm wrong.


yes it is the Ares kit as stated here http://boardreader.com/thread/AR_15_Gas_piston_conversion_kit_5747Xfd5wrv.html
and here http://xcrforum.com/index.php?topic=1942.0

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Posted: 9/14/2010 5:08:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 5:18:00 PM EST by Avtomat32]
I have one of the very first Ares kits before Bushmaster took it over. It did not come with the barrel clamp. 700 round and ZERO malfunctions, although I did clean the piston assembly as it got pretty dirty.

I have 2 friends who used these on their SBR rifles and neither ran perfect on less than 13" barrels.
The CMMG gas piston conversion is currently my favorite, great system, great price!
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Posted: 9/15/2010 4:35:07 AM EST
Should have saved up a little longer and bought an LWRC...
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Posted: 9/15/2010 12:22:48 PM EST
Actually, Bushmaster licensed BOTH POF and Ares. You can buy the piston upper [POF], or the piston conversion [Ares]. The piston conversion is a tappet design, which is different from the POF upper.

Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
I thought the bushy product was the Ares kit not POF? correct me if I'm wrong.


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Posted: 9/15/2010 11:14:02 PM EST
VP of customer service called Tuesday apologizing that they were so backed up and for the promise to call me the next day (which would be last Wednesday) that was overlooked.

They FedExed a new rod to me that arrived Wednesday.

Communication error inside BM as to who was handling this as no one recalls a piston rod breaking before, massive apologies, and sent new rod out for next day that fits fine. It took 2 e-mails to customer service asking what happened, but when they saw it they acted immediately.

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Posted: 9/16/2010 7:50:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Walsh:
VP of customer service called Tuesday apologizing that they were so backed up and for the promise to call me the next day (which would be last Wednesday) that was overlooked.

They FedExed a new rod to me that arrived Wednesday.

Communication error inside BM as to who was handling this as no one recalls a piston rod breaking before, massive apologies, and sent new rod out for next day that fits fine. It took 2 e-mails to customer service asking what happened, but when they saw it they acted immediately.

Walsh


Good deal. Glad you got it taken care of. Never hurts to buy spares though.


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Posted: 9/16/2010 4:22:02 PM EST
This is good to hear as I have not had the time to check mine out yet. If they claim they haven't had any this may have been just a one time failure. However, I will check mine and forward any findings ASAP.
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Posted: 9/16/2010 7:31:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By NorthStaR209:
HaHa thats like going to the DI forum and saying "oh your gas tube ruptured, should've went piston" ??? What an idiot Clown Dick


Idiot Clown Dick.....nice.

What did you do before January?


TR

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Posted: 9/16/2010 7:31:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Originally Posted By Tree-Rat:
ANY negative comments concerning piston designs in the piston forum = TROLL.

This is becoming a trend it appears. No sense having any objective dissusion at all I guess?

TR

Not at all. If a thread is started asking for opinions on which is better -DI Vs piston, then discuss away. A thread where someone is asking for help or advice with a problem is not the place for that debate. IMHO of course.

I'm interested to see if BM makes good with their equipment.


Me too....I myself like the info, for or against. No worries.


TR

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