Very interesting concept! Would definitely be interested in trying this out.

Interesting but I'll pass.  Seems to me it will be dumping a lot of high pressure gass under the handguard making it a filthy mess with some powders.  Some powders, like AR COMP, are bad enough making a filthy mess in the BCG so I cannot imagine what kind of mess it would make under the handguards.

Isn't that the idea? Keep the mess out of the action so your rifle keeps running.

 
No, I don't think it is...at least not the way you're saying it.  I'm not sure I fully understand this gas block system because it is not adequately briefed in the advertisement, and the advertisement does not even attempt to explain why bleeding off the gas is a better option, overall.  




On an adjustable block that is similar to Syrac or the SLR block, you restrict the gas that flows back to the action, down to minimum amount necessary to cycle the action.  So, whatever amount of gas that happens to be, this Superlative gas block will still have to allow that same amount of gas back into the action...because if it doesn't, then the action won't cycle.  Therefore, this block cannot possibly be any "cleaner" than any other adjustable system...if it was, the action wouldn't cycle.  




But, more to the point, how does bleeding off the gas help any?  When using a Syrac or SLR block, the gas goes two places...some gas goes to the action and the rest goes behind the bullet and out the muzzle.  Now, with this Superlative block, there is a third place the gas goes...you now have a portion of the gas flowing out of the gas block into the atmosphere (apparently).  The obvious problem is that 99% of people have handguards covering their gas block, which means the carbon will just dirty-up the handguard.  That's nonsense.  But lets assume that you do not run the handguard covering this Superlative gas block and some gas is vented into the atmosphere via the block, separately from the gas that goes into the action and the gas that goes out the muzzle.  ...wouldn't this mean there is less pressure pushing the bullet forward once the bullet passes the gas port?  If true, this would mean the "bleed off" works to reduce velocity somewhat...but by a very small amount, admittedly.  But what benefit is gained from this when the same amount of gas will still have to be sent into the action to cycle the weapon??  I'm not sure I understand the point, here.  




And what does this language mean:  "The pressure used in the block is reduced only to the amount required to drive the bolt carrier. The remaining gas / pressure are bled out of the block allowing the system to run much cleaner and cooler."  Does this mean that once the bullet passes the gas port, there is no remaining pressuring pushing on the bullet base to increase velocity (and that only inertia carries the bullet the rest of the way down the barrel)?  ..bc that is what it sounds like.  I'm just trying to understand.  Thanks for your help and for trying to make the industry better.  




But on the plus side, this block is a few dollars cheaper than other adjustable blocks, so perhaps that is enough to make it worth the purchase, as long as it doesn't carbon up the handguard.  ....but I'd like to understand why this "bleed off" design is better if I am correct that the same minimum amount of gas will still be poured into the action (i.e., whatever is the minimum amount necessary to cycle the action).  I'd also like to know how much gas is bled off and how much gas remains to push the bullet forward after it passes the gas port.  


 

I'd also be interested if it makes a piston pop sound when suppressed.  Does the gas exit at such high speed pressure that it sneezes when suppressed? lol I think this product needs a video review/ slow motion footage.

This has been done on other weapons.  w/ what degree of success I am not sure.  Saiga 12s has an aftermarket system that audot ajusts and vents.

I am curious how much noise this makes, like when shooting suppressed?  Of course, the stoner gas system vents excess gas out of the little holes in the side of hte carrier out the ejection port when the piston anyway...

what about putting a gas tube onto the exhaust port to blow it out farther forward so that an extended handgard doesn't get dirty inside

I think the point of the bleed off system is to reduce wear on the part that reduces the gas back to the carrier. On most adjustable gas block the full force of the gas is always against that screw that limits the flow which in turn will wear over time. On the bleed off system that is reduced enough to limit the wear to a minimum. That's my take on it.

This is exactly what came to my mind when I read and reread the article, the dynamics not making any sense. Like the old adage about fixing something that ain't broke. Well said Acon308.

Agree with the 2 comments above. The first thing that comes to mind is that this would have to have a negative effect on muzzle velocity. I would like to see a side by side comparison using the same gun and changing gas block from standard lowpro to SYRAC to this one. It seams like the usual adjustment system would increase velocity by minimizing excess gas to drive the action and thus more gas to drive the projectile. The Superlative system may decrease velocity to at or below the standard non adjustable system. This is a bench test that needs to be done. mbell556

tag for updates when they come in

I for one dont think it will have any notable change in bullet velocity.  Certainly not more than using an open gas block vs an adjustable.  And if anyone thinks that comment sounds silly think about it.

In either event IF the DI gas blocks are anything like the Bleed off piston gas block you can test this with the same gas block.

On the piston system the bleed off screw works like this:
Tightened all the way down is "no gas land".  As you turn the adjustment screw Counter Clockwise it opens up the gas system like a regular adjustable gas block until you get to 4.5-5 complete revolutions.  That zone is "Full Open"
Then you continue to rotate adjustment screw Counter Clockwise past "Full Open" and it starts to adjust progressively into the "bleed off zone"

Where I do think this will have a large impact is on backpressure shooting suppressed, gas block temperature and fouling/erosion of the adjustment screw.

You are overlooking the fact that screw-type adjustable gas-blocks vent gas out of the unsealed threads of the adjustment screw. Gas follows the path of least pressure resistance. These gas-blocks already vent gas out of the gas-block to atmosphere. The issue this design attempts to address, aside from some of the bs marketing claims you have pointed out, is that the adjustment screw threads of conventional adjustable gas-blocks will seize with heavy use.

Titanium version would be nice.

Seems similar to the FAL's adjustable gas system, which bleeds gas through the top, I don't get the rude responses.

so my peanut brain, sees no issue with this design.

Worst case scenario, low pressure ammo unsuppressed, you "shut it off" and it behaves like a standard plain jane gas block.

Best case scenario, non-suppressed, it is giving a partial amount of excess pressure another outlet.

with saami spec ammo suppressed, more noise due to other outlets for pressure to escape, but you have the plus side of your action not getting beat to death.  Down side is there might be more erosion on the gas block and surrounding area?

I can only imagine the the potential velocity loss due to this tiny drop in pressure is miniscual.

I think the meaning of usIng just enough gas to cycle means after you've adjusted it like any other adjustable gb your only setting it to cycle the bolt. In this case one you've reached that setting the additional gas simple exits the block rather then going down the barrel. That being said I've been nothing but happy with my slr

 

So you've actually tested a superlative adjustable gas block to make such claims? Or aware of superlative's engineering history as a parts manufacture?  not to take away SLR's quality, but i'd like to know more of superlative's new design.

I don't understand why.  Why add an additional place to vent gas?

I can just dial down my existing gb so that it provides just enough gas to cycle.

FYI;  Tony Russo owns Superlative Arms, and is the one who co-designed the Syrac gas block and their retrofit piston kit system. He holds the co-patent on their system.

This new version gas block with the  bleed off, the reason for this thread, is designed by Tony.  He solely holds the patent on it.
He uses this block in DI applications and in conjunction with his aftermarket retrofit piston kit systems.

I pass this information on as I was told by Tony over the phone when I called about one of his retrofit piston kits.

The point of the "bleed off" system is to not dirty the adjusting screw, which will likely seize or cause issues with time. This design, in theory, is supposed to fix that issue along with backing the screw up too much. Think of it as proactive future measures. It's to my knowledge that you don't need to clean the screw as a result of this.

As for dirtying your rail, if you don't want your pretty little rifles to get dirty, scratched, or beat up, you should probably own a Prius and live in San Francisco.


Just saying.

I fail to see how mitigating gas and carbon buildup spewing out into the handguards (what legacy DI/internal piston stuff already does) means one should own a Prius and live in San Fran.



You should save the GD responses for GD.

The purpose of weapons should serve three major purposes. Competition, hunting (sport), and self defense.

None of which require (or judge) you to keep your rifle squeeky clean. It's not a fashion show.


That's the point I'm trying to make.

By DI, I suppose you mean SGS, that is the Stoner Gas System, the one where the piston is in the bolt carrier.

Correct.

Yes, I know the Stoner system is not a true Direct Impingement system, but DI is wildly accepted term for the Stoner Gas System. Even if it's wrong.

Interested in this for my new build.

This is awesome. Anyway to run a little spout to the edge of my HG? Does it pump out the front or what?

Anyone running one of these yet?

Thinking out loud here, but couldn't this maybe be better suppressed than you think? Would it not be quieter for the shooter to vent gas up front and forward rather than blowback from residual pressure leaving the chamber after extraction?
 


ETA: I'm running SLR adjustable block right now


 

I did this video review and build. I am taking it out for test firing this week. I am going to look at muzzle velocities with and without bleed off. I can take out a suppressor and as least give a subjective evaluation. Are there any other specific thoughts on what folks want to see in the function test. I will probably be shooting Wednesday or Thursday and should have the video uploaded Friday or Saturday.    mbell556

https://youtu.be/HeKg0y628Bs

Edit: this video is the piston kit I do have the DI gas block to review as well. That will be next week. I will check the DI block with a suppressor as well.

Maybe I'm not understanding the "bleed off" function correctly (details are fuzzy), but the Stoner system is designed to bleed off excessive gas at the ejection port, NOT at the gas block.  If it bleeds gas off at the block, isn't there a concern about an underpowered BCG?  

Traditionally, the goal has been to limit gas bleed off at the block (better seal).  Maybe I'm missing something.

Yes, but in a piston or op rod system, the gas impacts the piston or tappet at the gas block...not at the BCG. There's a big difference.  Unless this new wonder gas block is ONLY for piston systems, which makes a whole lot more sense.

The gas block plays little to no part in port erosion.  The corner of the port is eroded with every shot no matter what kind of gas block is mounted to the barrel.

In the Stoner system the gas coming out of the bolt carrier holes is exhaust and not bleed off. That gas has done it's job of pushing the "piston" or bolt head and affecting the cycling of the BCG. That escaping gas is comparable to the gas leaving the gas cylinder portion of the gas block in a piston system via the vent holes in the side of the gas block cylinder. Some systems have a fixed "bleed off" vent as well, as in the HK 416 that vents a fixed amount forward out of the gas block. HK claims that this lets this fixed system adjust to different pressures from different ammo.This SA system just lets you adjust how much you let bleed off thru the front of the gas block. As far as I can tell looking as the design of the SA system you could use either the restrictive technique or the bleed off technique to adjust gas pressure entering the gas tube. I am going to look at this in the field. You have to back out the adjustment screw 4.5 turns to completely clear the gas port, then backing out further starts the bleed off. So if you back out less that 4.5 turns then you are in the restrictive zone. We'll see how this works in the field. I am also curious if this bleed off affects bullet velocity when bleed off is used and if it makes suppression louder or not. I am going to look at these issues this week. I have had to wait for this tropical low pressure to pass.

I know this is the piston kit version but I was surprised by something I wanted to share. The bleed-off piston was quieter than the restriction when using a suppressor. I have the DI gas block from SA to build up and test out too. I would suspect I might see similar results with a suppressor. So far I am not seeing a down side to the bleed-off system.
field test of bleed off piston kit    https://youtu.be/Cy5XLr3igaU

I have one on a build I complet ed a few months back but have been too busy to shoot it yet.  I'll report back once I get a chance as well.  I'm running a lightweight bcg as well so it should work out well.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. People dumping products on the market, and announcing it here without even trying them out, or testing them first to see if they'll benefit end users. I know that there's a sucker born every minute, but how about showing proof that the product will even work.

I found out Saturday nigh it works as expected......if one remembers to turn on the gas to 4.5 turns

Finished the build a month ago, and didn't try to run it until Saturday night. Was dumb founded when it wouldn't eject the spent casing.
Only took me 3 rounds to figure out there wasn't any gas hitting the piston rod. DUH !!!

Now it's raining again, and I have a graduation to attend this weekend. Hopefully it won't be another month to fine tune it.

The owner of Superlative Arms had all the T&E done long before he marketed the system.
IMHO, it's the best retrofit piston kit on the market.

When using a standard non adjustable block a certain amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. With this bleed off setup the same exact amount of gas will go thru the gas port in the barrel. Velocity would not be impacted any by the bleed off gas block vs a standard non adjustable block setup.

I think you may be correct, but you are comparing a non adjustable gas block to this bleed-off adjustable gas block. If you use a restrictive gas block then the "excess" gas is kept in the bore behind the projectile. So theoretically a restrictive adjustable gas block may boost the velocity a tiny bit. So the question is, does this bleed-off sacrifice velocity compared to a standard restrictive adjustable gas block.That is what I found comparing restriction to bleed-off, but it was only 20 fps difference in an unsuppressed upper with the piston system. The difference should be more significant when suppressed. I will be checking that out this week. One surprise was that the bleed-off was quieter when suppressed by 9 db at the shooter's ear.

https://youtu.be/Cy5XLr3igaU

Looking at the range for both groups you have close to 100fps range for the restriction test and only 84fps for the bleed off test. It is interesting to see them hit the same low. Looking at the rest of the numbers I would expect the bleed off setting to hit lower than the restriction. With that much variation between rounds I wonder if we would see a larger or smaller difference between the two settings with a more consistent load. Just something to ponder.
















 

remanez, you are right, above, when you say...." the non adjustable is a bleed off type as well. It just directs it into the BCG instead of to atmosphere". In both of these cases the rate limiting factor is the size of the gas port. There should not be any difference in velocity. I realize increased velocity is not a selling point with restrictive gas blocks, and this is as it should be as the difference is small. I just look at these differences because they were questions that came up about this new design. I do think the velocity difference will be greater when suppressed, but as you have pointed out, the velocity of this bleed-off gas block should not theoretically be any different than a non adjustable gas block under the same circumstances. This does lend credence to the claim that there is at least some decrease in heat and dirt delivered to the BCG. I'll be out with the DI bleed-off gas block this week. Any thoughts on particulars I should look at?  My ammo is military M193 Ball. It's not very consistent but I'll use the same ammo in all the test firings. I am going to try to get a close up video of the ejection port with a 40 round mag dump (with a suppressor) to compare the bleed-off vs restriction. Hopefully this will give folks a sense of the difference, if any, in blow back between these two techniques of gas adjustment. I'll be looking at sound and velocity differences with a suppressor also.

I picked one up today for a DI 300 BLK PDW that I am working on. I'll be able to do a direct comparison between a SLR/Syrac adj. and this new one. I am primarily interested in reducing suppressed blow-back gasses to my face but (as noted by MBELL), I'll take a reduction in noise any day.











EDIT:




Just looked MBELL up. Surgeon no less. Impressive...



 

I have one of the DI blocks on my AR-10 that I shoot 99% suppressed (16'' Faxon 5R barrel FWIW) and this is exactly how it works.