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Posted: 4/22/2014 4:53:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Cool, but I could do without the giant M on the side.
I'm assuming these are easier to make and lighter then the MK2's... hopefully cheaper too? Unless you are paying royalties to Magpul. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 4:56:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Any idea on a release date. That is a good looking handguard.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 5:31:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool, but I could do without the giant M on the side. I'm assuming these are easier to make and lighter then the MK2's... hopefully cheaper too? Unless you are paying royalties to Magpul. I agree, the big "M" is for the first rails that we are using for photos, etc |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 7:16:59 PM EDT
[#4]
This handguard does look sweet that's for certain. However I'll be happy when the new direct attach method standard is decided and manufacturers start cranking out some parts. Would love to see a keymod rvg instead of mlok myself. But I suppose there must be a time of competition before the market decided what is best. Otherwise we might miss out on a better than keymod design.
Any way in which this is preferable to keymod? Seems it could make for a lighter handguard as there is less material. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:38:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Hmmm....this M-Lok stuff looks like it might actually be better than keymod. The non-directional aspect is a big advantage, and since it should be cheaper to produce that's just gravy.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:45:03 PM EDT
[#6]
So what keeps add-ons from sliding? Are there detents on the backside of the slots?
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:55:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what keeps add-ons from sliding? Are there detents on the backside of the slots? I'm guessing not, it would add some difficulty to manufacture and oppose the general idea of being easier to use than the keymod. If I had to guess, put a little elbow into it when you're screwing it down. Not sure I'm liking the idea of M-Lok over keymod. Now that there's 2 different "open source" modular systems, hopefully there's an increase in ideas, and not just one beating out the other. Being able to use every keymod hole as a push button sling mount is awesome, but with M-Lok you'll have to buy a mount. Note underlined statements, this is only an opinion, and may very well stink like one. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 9:25:34 PM EDT
[#8]
the rails probably fill the entire slot.
edit: it has nubs that fit inside the rail, read the PDF here for full details M-LOK |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 9:54:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the rails probably fill the entire slot. edit: it has nubs that fit inside the rail, read the PDF here for full details M-LOK Magpul seldom (if ever) puts out bad designs so I am happy to see a new competitor in the post-quad rail segment.  With Keymod, everything fits to just about flush with the ID of the rail. Of course you have to have enough space to get the nut in place but while it is being tightened down, the nut is moved towards the outside of the rail and comes to rest flush with the hand guard (at least this is how it works on my NSRs).  For reference, here is a straight on shot of one of my NSRs. It has one hand stop section and one of the smaller rail sections mounted.  Here is a more detailed view showing the internals:  I run a can inside the handguard and I wouldn't want any nuts (and even longer bolts) protruding the ID and damaging the outer tube of the suppressor. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 10:45:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Why would someone pay for a $350-$380 handguard for polymer rails?
The polymer rails are not going to make up the weight of a Geissele rail which comes in at a brick. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:25:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would someone pay for a $350-$380 handguard for polymer rails? The polymer rails are not going to make up the weight of a Geissele rail which comes in at a brick. I think that particular stated "advantage" in Magpul's M-LOK is not so much to use polymer rails on a metal $350-$380 forend, but to be able have the ease of installation without backers on their MOE polymer handguards. As they stated, the chamfering on the keymod nut doesn't work very well with on a polymer base (not the rail section, the handguard/forend itself), and adding the necessary back cut to a polymer handguard would make the handguard weaker in that area and prone to cracking. I guess outside of Magpul's updated MOE handguards someone could make free floated polymer forend with M-LOK compatible slots, but for the same strength it would end up being heavier and/or thicker than an aluminum forend. The only "advantage" I see that is really of any significant benefit is that companies that make forends will not be required to back cut the slots to interface properly with the keymod nut, thus eliminating a manufacturing step and making the end product cheaper. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 12:19:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that particular stated "advantage" in Magpul's M-LOK is not so much to use polymer rails on a metal $350-$380 forend, but to be able have the ease of installation without backers on their MOE polymer handguards. As they stated, the chamfering on the keymod nut doesn't work very well with on a polymer base (not the rail section, the handguard/forend itself), and adding the necessary back cut to a polymer handguard would make the handguard weaker in that area and prone to cracking. I guess outside of Magpul's updated MOE handguards someone could make free floated polymer forend with M-LOK compatible slots, but for the same strength it would end up being heavier and/or thicker than an aluminum forend. The only "advantage" I see that is really of any significant benefit is that companies that make for ends will not be required to back cut the slots to interface properly with the keymod nut, thus eliminating a manufacturing step and making the end product cheaper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would someone pay for a $350-$380 handguard for polymer rails? The polymer rails are not going to make up the weight of a Geissele rail which comes in at a brick. I think that particular stated "advantage" in Magpul's M-LOK is not so much to use polymer rails on a metal $350-$380 forend, but to be able have the ease of installation without backers on their MOE polymer handguards. As they stated, the chamfering on the keymod nut doesn't work very well with on a polymer base (not the rail section, the handguard/forend itself), and adding the necessary back cut to a polymer handguard would make the handguard weaker in that area and prone to cracking. I guess outside of Magpul's updated MOE handguards someone could make free floated polymer forend with M-LOK compatible slots, but for the same strength it would end up being heavier and/or thicker than an aluminum forend. The only "advantage" I see that is really of any significant benefit is that companies that make for ends will not be required to back cut the slots to interface properly with the keymod nut, thus eliminating a manufacturing step and making the end product cheaper. We CNC the KeyMod slots in one operation, using two cutting tools. One cuts the entire KeyMod slot and a second the undercut for the nut to lock into. On the M-Lok, we would use one tool to cut the slot and a smaller tool to cut the four smaller radiuses in the corners. It's about the same CNC time for KeyMod as M-Lok. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 12:54:26 AM EDT
[#13]
it looks very nice, one thing to point out that is a nice feature of the keymod tho, is the multiple QD attachment points of the keymod. Yes, you could just buy a QD swivel and attach it where you want but its kind of nice having multiple QD along the rail. Not THAT big of a deal but still... oh, and it looks like this method will be able to be slightly lighter than keymod.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 2:15:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We CNC the KeyMod slots in one operation, using two cutting tools. One cuts the entire KeyMod slot and a second the undercut for the nut to lock into. On the M-Lok, we would use one tool to cut the slot and a smaller tool to cut the four smaller radiuses in the corners. It's about the same CNC time for KeyMod as M-Lok. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why would someone pay for a $350-$380 handguard for polymer rails? The polymer rails are not going to make up the weight of a Geissele rail which comes in at a brick. I think that particular stated "advantage" in Magpul's M-LOK is not so much to use polymer rails on a metal $350-$380 forend, but to be able have the ease of installation without backers on their MOE polymer handguards. As they stated, the chamfering on the keymod nut doesn't work very well with on a polymer base (not the rail section, the handguard/forend itself), and adding the necessary back cut to a polymer handguard would make the handguard weaker in that area and prone to cracking. I guess outside of Magpul's updated MOE handguards someone could make free floated polymer forend with M-LOK compatible slots, but for the same strength it would end up being heavier and/or thicker than an aluminum forend. The only "advantage" I see that is really of any significant benefit is that companies that make for ends will not be required to back cut the slots to interface properly with the keymod nut, thus eliminating a manufacturing step and making the end product cheaper. We CNC the KeyMod slots in one operation, using two cutting tools. One cuts the entire KeyMod slot and a second the undercut for the nut to lock into. On the M-Lok, we would use one tool to cut the slot and a smaller tool to cut the four smaller radiuses in the corners. It's about the same CNC time for KeyMod as M-Lok. In our testing cutting the M-LOK slots was substantially quicker than KeyMod slots and only one standard cutter was used in the operation. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 5:55:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Great .... now that I have an arsenal of Sony Beta Max Rails, Magpul brings out their VHS Design.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 11:46:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Whats pricing on this system going to be?
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Posted: 4/23/2014 12:21:56 PM EDT
[#17]
This just seems a little shortsighted. MIL-STD-1913 has been the standard for a long time and KeyMod was designed to hopefully replace it. We've all been chomping at the bit for more and more keymod accesories to be released without having to use MIL-STD-1913 adapters. Instead of helping fellow industry partners advance KeyMod and push it towards becoming the new standard by releasing keymod accessories, it seems to me that the the decision was made to jump in as a direct competitor. Frankly, without having knowledge of Magpul's future plans, on the surface it seems childish really. Do you think nobody would buy Magpul accesories that were keymod compatible? It only really makes sense to me if Magpul were to come out with their own metal free float handguard and from a design and practicality standpoint want their accesories to also work on their polymer handguard line.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 12:26:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This just seems a little shortsighted. MIL-STD-1913 has been the standard for a long time and KeyMod was designed to hopefully replace it. We've all been chomping at the bit for more and more keymod accesories to be released without having to use MIL-STD-1913 adapters. Instead of helping fellow industry partners advance KeyMod and push it towards becoming the new standard by releasing keymod accessories, it seems to me that the the decision was made to jump in as a direct competitor. Frankly, without having knowledge of Magpul's future plans, on the surface it seems childish really. Do you think nobody would buy Magpul accesories that were keymod compatible? It only really makes sense to me if Magpul were to come out with their own metal free float handguard and from a design and practicality standpoint want their accesories to also work on their polymer handguard line. I'm sory this isn't GD so I wont comment. 
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Posted: 4/23/2014 12:31:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sory this isn't GD so I wont comment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This just seems a little shortsighted. MIL-STD-1913 has been the standard for a long time and KeyMod was designed to hopefully replace it. We've all been chomping at the bit for more and more keymod accesories to be released without having to use MIL-STD-1913 adapters. Instead of helping fellow industry partners advance KeyMod and push it towards becoming the new standard by releasing keymod accessories, it seems to me that the the decision was made to jump in as a direct competitor. Frankly, without having knowledge of Magpul's future plans, on the surface it seems childish really. Do you think nobody would buy Magpul accesories that were keymod compatible? It only really makes sense to me if Magpul were to come out with their own metal free float handguard and from a design and practicality standpoint want their accesories to also work on their polymer handguard line. I'm sory this isn't GD so I wont comment. That's okay, my post was directed at Magpul and Geissele, so your comments are neither solicted nor expected. 
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Posted: 4/23/2014 4:36:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This just seems a little shortsighted. MIL-STD-1913 has been the standard for a long time and KeyMod was designed to hopefully replace it. We've all been chomping at the bit for more and more keymod accesories to be released without having to use MIL-STD-1913 adapters. Instead of helping fellow industry partners advance KeyMod and push it towards becoming the new standard by releasing keymod accessories, it seems to me that the the decision was made to jump in as a direct competitor. Frankly, without having knowledge of Magpul's future plans, on the surface it seems childish really. Do you think nobody would buy Magpul accesories that were keymod compatible? It only really makes sense to me if Magpul were to come out with their own metal free float handguard and from a design and practicality standpoint want their accesories to also work on their polymer handguard line. As stated before the KeyMod's conical head bolts were designed for metal and are not a viable solution for mounting accessories on polymer handguards such as the MOE series. On plastic materials, the conical mating surfaces of KeyMod will either promote cracking or loosening due to creep and deformation of the polymer material. So using KeyMod on MOE series handguards was not an option. We would have been perfectly happy to adopt another standard...we certainly would have rather used the design and engineering time to work on actual physical products. We set out to test everything out there, and talked to manufacturers of metal rails as well as using our own experience in polymer. After the dust cleared from shaker table time with heat cycles, live fire, pull out testing, drop tests, etc., etc., we ended up with M-LOK. We thought about this one for a while, as we didn't want to be seen as muddying the marketplace "just because", but the results from our testing, and the response from our initial contacts with metal rail manufacturers about the ease with which M-LOK is machined made the case for release. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 7:20:29 PM EDT
[#21]
This is excellent news!
I have been shopping for a rail and keymod is not my thing. This rail looks amazing and having magpul behind the accessories is going to be great |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 7:39:05 PM EDT
[#22]
this is fantastic
will you have one on display this weekend at NRA? |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 9:24:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As stated before the KeyMod's conical head bolts were designed for metal and are not a viable solution for mounting accessories on polymer handguards such as the MOE series. On plastic materials, the conical mating surfaces of KeyMod will either promote cracking or loosening due to creep and deformation of the polymer material. So using KeyMod on MOE series handguards was not an option. We would have been perfectly happy to adopt another standard...we certainly would have rather used the design and engineering time to work on actual physical products. We set out to test everything out there, and talked to manufacturers of metal rails as well as using our own experience in polymer. After the dust cleared from shaker table time with heat cycles, live fire, pull out testing, drop tests, etc., etc., we ended up with M-LOK. We thought about this one for a while, as we didn't want to be seen as muddying the marketplace "just because", but the results from our testing, and the response from our initial contacts with metal rail manufacturers about the ease with which M-LOK is machined made the case for release. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This just seems a little shortsighted. MIL-STD-1913 has been the standard for a long time and KeyMod was designed to hopefully replace it. We've all been chomping at the bit for more and more keymod accesories to be released without having to use MIL-STD-1913 adapters. Instead of helping fellow industry partners advance KeyMod and push it towards becoming the new standard by releasing keymod accessories, it seems to me that the the decision was made to jump in as a direct competitor. Frankly, without having knowledge of Magpul's future plans, on the surface it seems childish really. Do you think nobody would buy Magpul accesories that were keymod compatible? It only really makes sense to me if Magpul were to come out with their own metal free float handguard and from a design and practicality standpoint want their accesories to also work on their polymer handguard line. As stated before the KeyMod's conical head bolts were designed for metal and are not a viable solution for mounting accessories on polymer handguards such as the MOE series. On plastic materials, the conical mating surfaces of KeyMod will either promote cracking or loosening due to creep and deformation of the polymer material. So using KeyMod on MOE series handguards was not an option. We would have been perfectly happy to adopt another standard...we certainly would have rather used the design and engineering time to work on actual physical products. We set out to test everything out there, and talked to manufacturers of metal rails as well as using our own experience in polymer. After the dust cleared from shaker table time with heat cycles, live fire, pull out testing, drop tests, etc., etc., we ended up with M-LOK. We thought about this one for a while, as we didn't want to be seen as muddying the marketplace "just because", but the results from our testing, and the response from our initial contacts with metal rail manufacturers about the ease with which M-LOK is machined made the case for release. Thank you for the response. It sounds like you guys would like to make KeyMod accessories for the market but at the same time it would further complicate your product line with having to develop products for all three (Picatinny/MOE/KeyMod). In the interest of simplification on your end, you guys developed a new mounting system where by which you will eventually phase out MOE and be left with only Picatinny and M-LOK, and I'm sure you would develop an M-LOK to Picatinny adapter for those with quad rails. One thing of note is that in the following image, it doesn't look like your M-LOK nut has a lip to prevent the accessory from falling off. Is it a tension fit or is there supposed to be a backside lip? Also, please make the screw star drive and not regular hex....
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:12:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is excellent news! I have been shopping for a rail and keymod is not my thing. This rail looks amazing and having magpul behind the accessories is going to be great Agreed. And a very well thought out response above by Magpul. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 3:03:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you for the response. It sounds like you guys would like to make KeyMod accessories for the market but at the same time it would further complicate your product line with having to develop products for all three (Picatinny/MOE/KeyMod). In the interest of simplification on your end, you guys developed a new mounting system where by which you will eventually phase out MOE and be left with only Picatinny and M-LOK, and I'm sure you would develop an M-LOK to Picatinny adapter for those with quad rails. One thing of note is that in the following image, it doesn't look like your M-LOK nut has a lip to prevent the accessory from falling off. Is it a tension fit or is there supposed to be a backside lip? Also, please make the screw star drive and not regular hex.... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rQIq7Te8sW8/U1cdRUlJGcI/AAAAAAAA47I/2XeqNE_0Hgo/w586-h382-no/Cammed+T-nut.PNG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This just seems a little shortsighted. MIL-STD-1913 has been the standard for a long time and KeyMod was designed to hopefully replace it. We've all been chomping at the bit for more and more keymod accesories to be released without having to use MIL-STD-1913 adapters. Instead of helping fellow industry partners advance KeyMod and push it towards becoming the new standard by releasing keymod accessories, it seems to me that the the decision was made to jump in as a direct competitor. Frankly, without having knowledge of Magpul's future plans, on the surface it seems childish really. Do you think nobody would buy Magpul accesories that were keymod compatible? It only really makes sense to me if Magpul were to come out with their own metal free float handguard and from a design and practicality standpoint want their accesories to also work on their polymer handguard line. As stated before the KeyMod's conical head bolts were designed for metal and are not a viable solution for mounting accessories on polymer handguards such as the MOE series. On plastic materials, the conical mating surfaces of KeyMod will either promote cracking or loosening due to creep and deformation of the polymer material. So using KeyMod on MOE series handguards was not an option. We would have been perfectly happy to adopt another standard...we certainly would have rather used the design and engineering time to work on actual physical products. We set out to test everything out there, and talked to manufacturers of metal rails as well as using our own experience in polymer. After the dust cleared from shaker table time with heat cycles, live fire, pull out testing, drop tests, etc., etc., we ended up with M-LOK. We thought about this one for a while, as we didn't want to be seen as muddying the marketplace "just because", but the results from our testing, and the response from our initial contacts with metal rail manufacturers about the ease with which M-LOK is machined made the case for release. Thank you for the response. It sounds like you guys would like to make KeyMod accessories for the market but at the same time it would further complicate your product line with having to develop products for all three (Picatinny/MOE/KeyMod). In the interest of simplification on your end, you guys developed a new mounting system where by which you will eventually phase out MOE and be left with only Picatinny and M-LOK, and I'm sure you would develop an M-LOK to Picatinny adapter for those with quad rails. One thing of note is that in the following image, it doesn't look like your M-LOK nut has a lip to prevent the accessory from falling off. Is it a tension fit or is there supposed to be a backside lip? Also, please make the screw star drive and not regular hex.... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rQIq7Te8sW8/U1cdRUlJGcI/AAAAAAAA47I/2XeqNE_0Hgo/w586-h382-no/Cammed+T-nut.PNG The image shown is of the top side of the T-Nuts when locked so you do not see the overlap but it is clearly shown in the video and other illustrations in the FAQ. Pull out strength in metal and polymer was tested in excess of 300 lbs with no issue. MOE accessories will be phased out over 18 months and all existing MOE slot handguards will be changed over to M-LOK slots this year (starting very soon). That said we have adapter plate to allow MOE accessories to mount on M-LOK and are testing out a potential solution to allow current MOE handguards to use most of the newer M-LOK accessories. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:18:37 PM EDT
[#26]
I like it. After reading more about the M-lok attachment method and viewing the diagrams I think this idea is a winner.
Geissele, Will you have a 15" version? If the weight is lower than earlier SMRs I could see myself switching my MI Gen2 out for your new MK8. The SMR attachment method is clearly stronger. But after using a 15" rail, I'm kinda married to it. Great work. Great initiative. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:15:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like it. After reading more about the M-lok attachment method and viewing the diagrams I think this idea is a winner. Geissele, Will you have a 15" version? If the weight is lower than earlier SMRs I could see myself switching my MI Gen2 out for your new MK8. The SMR attachment method is clearly stronger. But after using a 15" rail, I'm kinda married to it. Great work. Great initiative. Sagmill - I am also set on a 15" rail and really hope it's is in the cards for the MK8 |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 9:40:58 AM EDT
[#28]
I like it!
Finally a good looking functional system that doesn't look like cheap ass Home Depot shelving (Key Mod). I never jumped on the Key Mod bandwagon for that very reason. |
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Posted: 5/8/2014 1:15:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like it! Finally a good looking functional system that doesn't look like cheap ass Home Depot shelving (Key Mod). I never jumped on the Key Mod bandwagon for that very reason. |
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Posted: 5/17/2014 6:07:55 PM EDT
[#30]
WHEN CAN I BUY ONE?!?!
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Posted: 5/26/2014 2:43:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Anyone know when the mk8 will hit the market?
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Posted: 6/1/2014 10:50:50 AM EDT
[#32]
I really like this design, i don't care for Keymod at all. Any idea when you'll be releasing these MK8's? What sizes will be offered first? I also would like to see a 15 or 16" initially. Would even be better if you had some in anodized FDE !
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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:02:36 AM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 6/7/2014 9:18:47 AM EDT
[#34]
What is the weight of that 13" rail with barrel nut?
If these weigh anything close to the KMR I will buy one. Also, I hope the production version has the option to drop the rail markings and M-lok logo. |
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Posted: 6/10/2014 9:45:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryHmm, thought Geissele said that ugly M lock symbol was only for the "promotional" versions for showing off MLock |
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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:06:56 AM EDT
[#36]
That is still one of the early rails. We have to put the M lok logo on the rail due to the licensing requirement. It will not be that big though.
Here are some pics of one of the first off production rails no ano 
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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:10:02 AM EDT
[#37]
I'm glad the logo will be on there, I like it. Any chance these will be up for orders by end of month?
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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:20:53 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad the logo will be on there, I like it. Any chance these will be up for orders by end of month? I would prefer a geissele logo 
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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:26:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad the logo will be on there, I like it. Any chance these will be up for orders by end of month? It might be a little longer. BUT....ALG EMR-M rails are up on our website. Stock will be added later today. These are the M-LOK version of the EMR rail. Starts at $100 sans accy rails |
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Posted: 6/10/2014 11:01:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It might be a little longer. BUT....ALG EMR-M rails are up on our website. Stock will be added later today. These are the M-LOK version of the EMR rail. Starts at $100 sans accy rails Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm glad the logo will be on there, I like it. Any chance these will be up for orders by end of month? It might be a little longer. BUT....ALG EMR-M rails are up on our website. Stock will be added later today. These are the M-LOK version of the EMR rail. Starts at $100 sans accy rails Nice, I was waiting for the ALG EMR-M rail version. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 8:10:33 AM EDT
[#41]
Any update on the MK8?
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Posted: 9/22/2014 9:58:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Does anyone have any newer pictures since they have been released? I'm interested to see a 13" MK8 on a 14.5" upper.
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