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Posted: 3/28/2013 2:10:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2013 2:37:08 PM EST by KEARMS]
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Posted: 3/29/2013 6:28:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2013 6:30:34 AM EST by DannerTrax]
$169! Sorry, but your trying to get post-ban prices in a pre-ban era, for an item that hinges on a ban, thats not going to happen. DannerTrax
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Posted: 3/29/2013 7:23:06 AM EST
In the current market, I don't think they'll have any trouble selling 80% lowers at the prices they're charging. Some folks aren't willing to wait for the right deal to come along. They'll spend whatever it takes to stockpile gear ... Drives the prices up, and drives me mad.
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Posted: 3/29/2013 8:43:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2013 1:37:28 PM EST by KEARMS]
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Posted: 3/29/2013 1:37:02 PM EST
I would've like to have seen you use an integral trigger guard.
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Posted: 3/29/2013 4:31:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2013 4:33:21 PM EST by Engineer5]
Please tell us more about the jig. Thanks.
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Posted: 3/29/2013 6:03:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Please tell us more about the jig. Thanks.


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Posted: 3/29/2013 7:56:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/29/2013 7:57:07 PM EST by demonsmokr]
Originally Posted By DannerTrax:
$169! Sorry, but your trying to get post-ban prices in a pre-ban era, for an item that hinges on a ban, thats not going to happen. DannerTrax


Im with this guy. There is no ban, it has been turned down. For the price, might as well spring for a completely machined lower. No point in getting a paper weight that will cost close to 200$ after shipping. Then have to get a jig.

I support the 80% lowers, just not the outrageous prices. You may claim to be moving them at the current rate, but not as much as you would at a better price. I think 100$ should be more than sufficient. If not, YOU are getting ripped off on your materials.

You gotta think ahead, not in the now. Especially when 100% lowers can be had for 200$.
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Posted: 3/30/2013 5:44:12 AM EST
Especially when 100% lowers can be had for 200$.


Where can you find billet lowers for $200.00?
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Posted: 3/30/2013 7:07:11 PM EST
Yeah. I am not paying that money for an 80%.

I will just wait a month or so for all of the idiots who bought 80%'s to realize no one is banning anything and they got in over their heads to sell them on the EE for half cost.

Or I will just buy a Seekin's forged for $130... I mean why would I buy this as opposed to that?

I would buy quite a few if they were priced reasonably at say $70 bucks or so but until then I will pass.
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Posted: 3/30/2013 8:28:55 PM EST
Whats up with the jig? Need info pronto.
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Posted: 3/30/2013 10:25:20 PM EST
Here the problem I see. Its a pretty good price for a billet 7075 80% lower. But a person buys a billet lower for looks. We all know that forgings are stronger. So billet is a looks cool thing. Your lower looks more than a little like a stock forged lower. I am sure there are people who want the low profile look of a forged but the precision of a billet but you know as well as I do the overwhelming majority of people who buy billet do so for looks.
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Posted: 3/31/2013 7:59:10 AM EST
Lowers for 200$ in stock.
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Posted: 3/31/2013 8:03:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/31/2013 8:21:51 AM EST by Engineer5]
Originally Posted By demonsmokr:
Lowers for 200$ in stock.


Those are forged. Where can a guy find billet lowers for $200.00? ETA: I just found Mega's for $196.00 at Rainier but of course they are out of stock.


Some of you are completely missing the point of an 80% lower. Some guys are doing it for the enjoyment of machining/finishing it themselves. Guys who machine these themselves aren't doing it to save a few bucks. It's all about doing it yourself. It's no different than let's say building a kit car or building your AR15 yourself as opposed to buying one off the shelf.
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Posted: 3/31/2013 11:22:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Originally Posted By demonsmokr:
Lowers for 200$ in stock.


Those are forged. Where can a guy find billet lowers for $200.00? ETA: I just found Mega's for $196.00 at Rainier but of course they are out of stock.


Some of you are completely missing the point of an 80% lower. Some guys are doing it for the enjoyment of machining/finishing it themselves. Guys who machine these themselves aren't doing it to save a few bucks. It's all about doing it yourself. It's no different than let's say building a kit car or building your AR15 yourself as opposed to buying one off the shelf.


Your missing the point of economics. You are charging almost 200$ for an 80% lower that still requires further machining, and coatings. Who cares if its billet? There is no integral trigger guard, and it doesnt look special at all. Just looks like a forging. You are just trying to capitalize on a BAN thats NOT happening. Sure, people get the 80% to finish themselves, ALSO to have an unserialized, unregistered lower. That is more what this is about. You are trying to charge too much. If you charged 100$, Id buy two right now. Not one for 169, plus shipping and possibly tax. That would be over 200$, when you can just get the Aero for 200$ and start slapping pieces on right away.

Billet is nothing special, especially these. Now, Hogan, POF, Larue, Mega, those are good billets. Yours is just a paperweight.

I dont understand why people justify their outrageous prices simply because other people are out of stock. Last year parts were out of stock everywhere, but those with instock items werent price gouging. So, why gouge now?
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Posted: 3/31/2013 2:21:49 PM EST
$169.00 dollars is an insane price for a 80% lower. I don't care if it's made from Unobtainium!

You should consider a lower cost batch for those of us who just want normal 80% lowers.
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Posted: 3/31/2013 2:35:50 PM EST
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Posted: 3/31/2013 3:49:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Originally Posted By demonsmokr:
Lowers for 200$ in stock.


Those are forged. Where can a guy find billet lowers for $200.00? ETA: I just found Mega's for $196.00 at Rainier but of course they are out of stock.


Some of you are completely missing the point of an 80% lower. Some guys are doing it for the enjoyment of machining/finishing it themselves. Guys who machine these themselves aren't doing it to save a few bucks. It's all about doing it yourself. It's no different than let's say building a kit car or building your AR15 yourself as opposed to buying one off the shelf.


At least one person here understands..
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Posted: 3/31/2013 5:44:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/31/2013 6:14:26 PM EST by Engineer5]
Originally Posted By demonsmokr:

I dont understand why people justify their outrageous prices simply because other people are out of stock. Last year parts were out of stock everywhere, but those with instock items werent price gouging. So, why gouge now?


Where did they justify their pricing based on other companies inventory? Do you know their materials costs? Machining costs? Labor costs? I don't. Maybe they got in way over their heads or maybe they are tacking on more money due to the current situation to make an extra buck. If the market supports it then good for them. That's just smart business. But if the market doesn't allow it then they'll obviously have to make pricing changes or be priced out of the market. How many people sold or traded their stash of Pmags at insane prices, bragged about it here, and were cheered on? How is anyone being price gouged? You are free to either buy a product or not buy a product.
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Posted: 3/31/2013 6:09:33 PM EST
Eh, I understand all of the free market arguments. I myself was just saying that personally I think anyone who buys one of these at that cost is completely insane. In my free market world I have no demand for that supply at that cost and never will.

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Posted: 3/31/2013 6:28:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By KEARMS:
Originally Posted By DannerTrax:
$169! Sorry, but your trying to get post-ban prices in a pre-ban era, for an item that hinges on a ban, thats not going to happen. DannerTrax


This is not a forging, nor is it made 6061 aluminum, a higher quality product cost more money to make. Were not having any problems moving them at this price, but thanks for sharing your opinion!



Get it while you can because it won't last. the over price that is.

It would possibly be a "higher quality product" IF it was a 100% lower.
otherwise a forging is better.

a CNC'd part is bought for tighter tolerances as well as looks. the little bit (20%) that is done doesn't amount to much. fact not opinion.
break into the market with a product that is priced right , not on speculation. the market is correcting itself and these won't be inline.

your stuff, have at it.
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Posted: 3/31/2013 6:46:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By durabo:
Eh, I understand all of the free market arguments. I myself was just saying that personally I think anyone who buys one of these at that cost is completely insane. In my free market world I have no demand for that supply at that cost and never will.



This guy says it nicer than I can. +1
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Posted: 3/31/2013 6:52:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By durabo:
Eh, I understand all of the free market arguments. I myself was just saying that personally I think anyone who buys one of these at that cost is completely insane. In my free market world I have no demand for that supply at that cost and never will.




INSANE is a bit strong.

If you want the damn thing and they have one....and you don't want to wait frickin' four months.....then pay a few buck and get one.

Hell.......maybe I'll buy a couple.
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Posted: 4/1/2013 2:21:01 AM EST
I just noticed it said "meets and exceeds milspec tolerances" so how exactly do you "exceed" milspec tolerances? And why would you want to? For that matter did you actually get your hands on the TDP to find out what those "milspec" tolerances are or did you just guess like everyone else?
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Posted: 4/2/2013 3:47:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Especially when 100% lowers can be had for 200$.


Where can you find billet lowers for $200.00?


You can get forged (which are better ) form rguns....since you asked...

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Posted: 4/2/2013 4:30:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/2/2013 4:31:20 PM EST by Direct-Drive]
Completely not very excited about this.
Has no "billet appeal"....looks like a forged.

Be advised....here's your competition...
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Posted: 4/2/2013 5:27:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Especially when 100% lowers can be had for 200$.


Where can you find billet lowers for $200.00?


You can get forged (which are better ) form rguns....since you asked...



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Posted: 4/2/2013 6:09:20 PM EST
I just bought a new lower in stock at my LGS for $95.00. Had plenty in stock. And... they were finished. The inflated prices have gone the way of the dinosaur... or the way of the KE Arms lower.
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Posted: 4/3/2013 5:20:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/4/2013 8:43:48 PM EST by blackfly53]
There are some who like the idea of a non-serialized lower and will pay for that.
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Posted: 4/5/2013 10:47:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2013 3:45:39 PM EST by KEARMS]
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Posted: 4/24/2013 3:15:47 PM EST
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Posted: 4/27/2013 5:39:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Please tell us more about the jig. Thanks.


Was this ever answered? Id like to know, as well. Along with pictures.
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Posted: 4/27/2013 2:26:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By KEARMS:
Hey everyone we’d like to thank you all for the orders, we’re shipping them out as fast as possible.
I’d like to take a brief moment to address some questions and comments some of you folks have.

- The overall design of our lower stemmed from the desire to have a mil-spec styled product, not some artists interpretation of what one should or should not be.
-Why billet?
Well a couple reasons. Availability being first, we buy 51x156 master sheets of made in the USA aero grade 7075 and when starting with such a large sheet we can control the direction of the grain structure, through this we’ve found billet to be stronger than forging in some aspects. In fact the only downside we’ve found is the increase in both cost of raw material and the time it takes us to machine the part. (Ex: it takes about 3-4 times longer to machine a billet then a forging). Billet also allows us to keep tighter tolerances than those of a forging, which even in mil-spec tend to have a larger allowable tolerance than we find acceptable.

We understand that we are not the cheapest 80% product in town, which we’re proud of because nothing about what we make is cheap. As far as what’s available on the 80% market we feel that our product is superior in several ways. Our billets are precision 3-D machined out of hi quality 7075, not 6061. Our mag wells are broached, not EDM’d or machined. Also it’s available in several finishes. Raw, Metal Finished and Type II mil-spec hard anodized.

-We are working diligently on our jigs as they are just about ready for release.
- Also we are working on the final stages of our AR10 platform too.
<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/Rolex45/media/IMG_1536.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee476/Rolex45/IMG_1536.jpg</a>



It is really nice that people made these available during the big scare the President set forth with his comment of "BANNING the BLACK GUNS". Keep them moving in production and they will be on the shelf for when the next bone head to speaks up with an unsought out idea and let you sell your bench stock for the $200.

I got mine at the local gun show last week for a bit less, $60 and forged finished lowers for $100. I'll use these but as someone said earlier in the post, unserialized lowers are good to be around for the future in case or for the next guy trying to take our rifles. They wont know they exist

Some said the other day, not one gun ever jumped up off the counter and hurt anyone. It is people using something for what it was not intended to be used for but we don't see them making cars illegal when someone is killed by one.

Again, keep pumping them out for next time a stupid comment is made, shelf stock....
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Posted: 4/27/2013 2:28:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tedward:
Originally Posted By KEARMS:
Hey everyone we’d like to thank you all for the orders, we’re shipping them out as fast as possible.
I’d like to take a brief moment to address some questions and comments some of you folks have.

- The overall design of our lower stemmed from the desire to have a mil-spec styled product, not some artists interpretation of what one should or should not be.
-Why billet?
Well a couple reasons. Availability being first, we buy 51x156 master sheets of made in the USA aero grade 7075 and when starting with such a large sheet we can control the direction of the grain structure, through this we’ve found billet to be stronger than forging in some aspects. In fact the only downside we’ve found is the increase in both cost of raw material and the time it takes us to machine the part. (Ex: it takes about 3-4 times longer to machine a billet then a forging). Billet also allows us to keep tighter tolerances than those of a forging, which even in mil-spec tend to have a larger allowable tolerance than we find acceptable.

We understand that we are not the cheapest 80% product in town, which we’re proud of because nothing about what we make is cheap. As far as what’s available on the 80% market we feel that our product is superior in several ways. Our billets are precision 3-D machined out of hi quality 7075, not 6061. Our mag wells are broached, not EDM’d or machined. Also it’s available in several finishes. Raw, Metal Finished and Type II mil-spec hard anodized.



-We are working diligently on our jigs as they are just about ready for release.
- Also we are working on the final stages of our AR10 platform too.
<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/Rolex45/media/IMG_1536.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee476/Rolex45/IMG_1536.jpg</a>



It is really nice that people made these available during the big scare the President set forth with his comment of "BANNING the BLACK GUNS". Keep them moving in production and they will be on the shelf for when the next bone head to speaks up with an unsought out idea and let you sell your bench stock for the $200.

I got mine at the local gun show last week for a bit less, $60 and forged finished lowers for $100. I'll use these but as someone said earlier in the post, unserialized lowers are good to be around for the future in case or for the next guy trying to take our rifles. They wont know they exist

Some said the other day, not one gun ever jumped up off the counter and hurt anyone. It is people using something for what it was not intended to be used for but we don't see them making cars illegal when someone is killed by one.

Again, keep pumping them out for next time a stupid comment is made, shelf stock....


Here is a link to Billet Lowers complete for $208 today, the scare price will be there for next time. http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3455
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Posted: 4/28/2013 6:23:50 PM EST
This

Originally Posted By blackfly53:
There are some who like the idea of a non-serialized lower and will pay for that.


No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms
Thomas Jefferson

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
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Posted: 5/1/2013 9:18:07 AM EST
I just bought my first 80% Lower from www.80percentAR.com for $125 and it seems to be great. I bought a jig from them and I am finishing it off as we speak. As some of you stated, it is nice to not worry about the serialization. I will post some pics as soon as I am finished.
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Posted: 5/1/2013 7:37:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Especially when 100% lowers can be had for 200$.


Where can you find billet lowers for $200.00?



Just bought a Billet Quentine Defense for $175
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Posted: 5/14/2013 11:15:27 AM EST
I just bought an 80%er from http://www.80percentar.com/ for $125 and didn't have to wait for "the next run". I measured it out and it's mil spec. I went with plain machined because I'm not sure what color I want to anodize it yet. Anyone know of a good anodizer in the Los Angeles area?
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Posted: 5/14/2013 11:52:24 AM EST
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Posted: 5/18/2013 3:14:34 AM EST
FedEx delivered my KE Arms 80% anodized lower yesterday afternoon.

The packaging was fantastic. Double boxed and in a fitted styrofoam nest in the inner box.

The lower is excellent. I measured it with calipers and everything seems to be right where it should be. The finish is dark flat black, and I couldn't find a mark, ding, or imperfection in it.

I enjoy rolling my own and don't really see price as an issue. I know I can get a finished lower for a lot less. But this isn't about cost. It's the enjoyment of building and the knowledge that for every one I build, there will be one more legally unserialized, completely off book AR around when when the gun ban hammer falls.
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Posted: 5/19/2013 6:03:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By saabdrifter:
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Especially when 100% lowers can be had for 200$.


Where can you find billet lowers for $200.00?



Just bought a Billet Quentine Defense for $175


Same here brother. I got a Billet off of gunbroker of all places. The U.S. Army Quentine Defense version. It is a striped lower and got it for 163 bucks. It is by far the nicest engraving I have ever seen. Got a parts kit and fired it this past weekend , fires great! It beats that crazy cartoon looking engraving a lot of other manufacturers are doing.
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Posted: 5/20/2013 4:25:56 AM EST
so just how hard is it to complete an 80% lower? can you use the jig in a drill press?
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Posted: 5/20/2013 11:23:19 AM EST
it be just easier I give you my banking account and have at it......
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Posted: 5/20/2013 2:10:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/20/2013 2:10:57 PM EST by KEARMS]
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Posted: 6/3/2013 7:35:45 PM EST
I hope you mean TypeIII anodozing, not TypeII?
Originally Posted By KEARMS:
Hey everyone we’d like to thank you all for the orders, we’re shipping them out as fast as possible.
I’d like to take a brief moment to address some questions and comments some of you folks have.

- The overall design of our lower stemmed from the desire to have a mil-spec styled product, not some artists interpretation of what one should or should not be.
-Why billet?
Well a couple reasons. Availability being first, we buy 51x156 master sheets of made in the USA aero grade 7075 and when starting with such a large sheet we can control the direction of the grain structure, through this we’ve found billet to be stronger than forging in some aspects. In fact the only downside we’ve found is the increase in both cost of raw material and the time it takes us to machine the part. (Ex: it takes about 3-4 times longer to machine a billet then a forging). Billet also allows us to keep tighter tolerances than those of a forging, which even in mil-spec tend to have a larger allowable tolerance than we find acceptable.

We understand that we are not the cheapest 80% product in town, which we’re proud of because nothing about what we make is cheap. As far as what’s available on the 80% market we feel that our product is superior in several ways. Our billets are precision 3-D machined out of hi quality 7075, not 6061. Our mag wells are broached, not EDM’d or machined. Also it’s available in several finishes. Raw, Metal Finished and Type II mil-spec hard anodized.

-We are working diligently on our jigs as they are just about ready for release.
- Also we are working on the final stages of our AR10 platform too.
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee476/Rolex45/IMG_1536.jpg


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Posted: 6/3/2013 8:52:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2013 8:55:02 PM EST by diesel_fireman2001]
Looks like a quality product. For a Raw 80% lower @$129 the price is very reasonable to me. I prefer completing 80% lowers not for just the fact that big brother has no need to know what I own, but to be able to design whatever logos I want to put on them. They are 100% Customizeable. I don't like AR15 with big massive logos on them from the company the made them. There is also the sence of pride in machining your own lower and completing a rifle that you made, not just assembling a bunch of parts you ordered from Brownells. That is why I am willing to pay more for an 80% lower than a completed forged one from company "X".

I do wounder though since you guys are making these out of Aluminum Bar stock, why not make them with a little more character, built in trigger guard, attractive lines. To me they look like any random forged 80% lower. I have never had an issue with 6061 that many of my lowers are made from. While 7075 is stronger than 6061, by no means is 6061 junk. I machine it daily for a variety of parts, including firearms. The upper reciever is really the only one that recieves any real pressures (in case of a Detonation).

Does your broached magwells have a square corner or a rounded off corner?
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Posted: 6/4/2013 3:41:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Especially when 100% lowers can be had for 200$.


Where can you find billet lowers for $200.00?


New to Forum so I hope this works. Deco Manufacturing in Illinois has complete 7075 billet lowers for $190.00. High quality!
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Posted: 6/4/2013 11:28:07 AM EST
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Posted: 6/4/2013 11:32:55 AM EST
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Posted: 6/4/2013 5:37:50 PM EST
Any updates on the jig?
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Posted: 6/5/2013 12:34:48 PM EST
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