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Posted: 6/17/2017 8:28:49 PM EDT
Is this a 601 in this VN photo or a 602 with the older flash hider?
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Posted: 6/17/2017 9:13:45 PM EDT
[#1]
It appears to have the "improved" charging handle as well. Can't really tell if it's a B or a C stock either so I don't think there is any way to determine if it's a 601 or a early 602. Also looks like there is a large pad door.
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Posted: 6/17/2017 9:49:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes.
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Posted: 6/17/2017 11:09:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Fpni
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Posted: 6/18/2017 11:57:59 AM EDT
[#4]
The US Army purchased 1000 model 601 rifles and sent them to Vietnam for testing in 1962 as part of Project Agile.
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Posted: 6/18/2017 12:48:16 PM EDT
[#5]
Photo in one of the mid 1960's Colt catalogs of a US advisor wearing duck hunter camo holding a 601, IIRC.
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Posted: 6/18/2017 3:30:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Pretty sure that all the Operation AGILE 601s were green - AFAIK, only 601s with black-painted furniture were LE or prison weapons. That, along with the FH, leads me to believe it's a 602. Both would have been correct for advisors, I believe.
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Posted: 6/18/2017 3:38:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Almosts looks to me like the buttstock may have a green tint. The CH is the later version, and the front HG is black. Who knows but what we may be seeing are some examples of in-field replacements from wear and tear. Those early handguards could break easily, and an upgrade to that hard to grip triangle CH.
Is that a detail of a larger photo? |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:36:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Looks to me like both handguards and stock could possibly be green...but I'm prolly wrong bc of that charging handle.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 10:32:02 AM EDT
[#9]
If I see the uniform details properly, that is the sateen jungle uniform which was issued 1965 to 1966 before being replaced by the rip stop weave. So, the next question would be if the Project Agile weapons stayed with SF, while the struggle was on to supply the number of M16s wanted in theater.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 12:18:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Looks like he may have a cleaning rod taped to the butstock with green 100mph tape too.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 1:20:10 PM EDT
[#11]
The finish of the upper and lower receiver looks pretty dark to me too. I'm no early M16 expert though.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 4:05:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Looks like brown wear through on the back the HG next to the leaf?
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Posted: 6/19/2017 4:07:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Is this a 601 in this VN photo or a 602 with the older flash hider? http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/tom051876/50544757-9931-4668-88D9-6B1471E921EF_zpsb1m8wqsn.jpg 
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Posted: 6/19/2017 4:11:15 PM EDT
[#14]
I wish I had all that good stuff!
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Posted: 6/19/2017 4:17:23 PM EDT
[#15]
I agree that it might be green furniture thats just hard to see because of old film/lighting/swamp gas.
I think its more likely a 601 was upgraded to a new charging handle rather than a 602 had a duckbill FH installed. |
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Posted: 6/25/2017 9:24:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The US Army purchased 1000 model 601 rifles and sent them to Vietnam for testing in 1962 as part of Project Agile. A friend of mine talked with the Colt salesman in Saigon in 1961. |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 5:45:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Photo in one of the mid 1960's Colt catalogs of a US advisor wearing duck hunter camo holding a 601, IIRC. Ron |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 6:14:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I see the uniform details properly, that is the sateen jungle uniform which was issued 1965 to 1966 before being replaced by the rip stop weave. So, the next question would be if the Project Agile weapons stayed with SF, while the struggle was on to supply the number of M16s wanted in theater. 2 sets of a brown camo. mid summer 1968. Also wore state side utilities some times. Uniforms were issued as needed and what they had to issue at that time and what group or team you were working with. Uniforms just didn't last long. A few pictures of what we wore. I will try to find some more pictures. Second picture is Phil W., he got to RVN 1966 and stayed until late 1971. his M16 was 1966 issue. He passed early this year. 3rd picture is me. 4th picture down is Paul S. got to RVN after TET 68 and did 3 tours, Died a few years ago. Last picture: I am on the left and on the right is Lew B. Got to RVN 1966 and left on the last flight out of RVN 1975 (CCT) He passed in 2003 There are only about 4 of us left that were on this team that we know of. Sorry, just an old man remembering stuff from a long time ago. Some time I just ramble on........ Ron  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 6:48:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish I had all that good stuff! I didn't have a lot of "stuff" so I just grabbed my mobility gear and shoved it in the box. (No weapons) Almost all of it is still in storage from almost 50 years ago. Some day I will dig it out and see what is still good, if any thing. Mobility gear picture.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 7:27:37 AM EDT
[#20]
This is a picture of my uncle.
Not sure of what date picture taken, RVN. (Up front second from the right.) he did 5 or 6 tours. First tour 1963 as an advisor. He was a Sgt that took a commission. He was in SF at this time this picture was taken. The picture is not great, but if you look at it close you can see a scope mounted on his M16. I tried to enlarge the picture but it gets to blurred. I had not noticed it before. I didn't remember seeing many scopes on M16's in Vietnam. Anyone remember scopes on M16 in RVN The guy next to him is also has an M16.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 9:50:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Catalog is dated 1965/66. The gun has the bell type three prong (so I'm thinking maybe not 601....I don't have it or a magnifying glass in front of me to study the microscopic details), but it is sporting a waffle mag
I don't recall the wording of the caption in the catalog, but I have seen the American in the photo described as an advisor. |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 10:12:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Very cool thanks for sharing!
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Posted: 6/26/2017 10:46:32 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was first issued the sateen jungle uniform in 1967. I didn't get any ripstop until the summer of 68. Issued the Tiger strips in late 67. 2 sets of a brown camo. mid summer 1968. Also wore state side utilities some times. Uniforms were issued as needed and what they had to issue at that time and what group or team you were working with. Uniforms just didn't last long. A few pictures of what we wore. I will try to find some more pictures. Second picture is Phil W., he got to RVN 1966 and stayed until late 1971. his M16 was 1966 issue. He passed early this year. 4th picture down is Paul S. got to RVN after TET 68 and did 3 tours, Died a few years ago. Last picture: on the right is Lew B. Got to RVN 1966 and left on the last flight out of RVN 1975 (CCT) He passed in 2003 There are only about 4 of us left that were on this team that we know of. Sorry, just an old man remembering stuff from a long time ago. Some time I just ramble on........ Ron https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132102/2011-06210103-239098.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132102/rvn-54-239099.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132102/vietnam007---Copy--2--239100.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132102/206rvn---Copy-239101.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/132102/RVN--RON-and-LEW-1968-239102.JPG When the army got rid of the ripstop jungle uniforms in the 1980s, they went on sale at clothing sales for about $6.50 a set. I've got a half dozen sets with 1969 contract dates. |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 11:56:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...There are only about 4 of us left that were on this team that we know of. Sorry, just an old man remembering stuff from a long time ago. Some time I just ramble on........ Ron... Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge, and thanks for your service. Here's to those no longer with us, and to those we're fortunate enough to still have around. 
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Posted: 6/26/2017 12:57:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Delete, thanks for sharing and thank you for your service. At this point, memories of serviceman that were there and history books are all we have to go on. Archive files of this string will last on the net. To you and anyone else that would like to share, please do.
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Posted: 6/26/2017 1:17:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Delete, thank you for sharing!!!!! And serving!!!!!
I have this big book I'm reading right now. I forgot I had it and I was looking for some stuff in my basement and stumbled across it. It's called "The Long-Range War; Sniping in Vietnam" by Peter R. Senich. And it's focus is on Army sniping weapons. And he shows some pics of different scopes used on M16's and claims the Army was testing a variety of set ups with the M14 and M16. Along with trying out some of the Marine's bolt guns. I can take some pics from the book and put them up. But yeah, there were plenty of M16's with scopes of different flavor, and of course a normal ole Colt scope. I'm guessing you know that but maybe you want something more specific? I can see if the book talks about it. I'm only on chapter 2. |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 1:35:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Awesome post, thanks!
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Posted: 6/26/2017 7:20:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Had this when no one wanted green so Maybe it is legit?
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Posted: 6/26/2017 7:47:05 PM EDT
[#29]
That's cool there are hash marks on it too. Wonder if those are enemy kills!
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Posted: 6/26/2017 7:51:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's cool there are hash marks on it too. Wonder if those are enemy kills! |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 8:25:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, just an old man remembering stuff from a long time ago. Some time I just ramble on........ Ron I actually feel sorry for those sad examples of our age group who now tell me they "missed" going to Viet Nam. I bet they didn't feel like that at the time! They have no clue what they skated out of, the poor bastards. At least we don't have to tell people that we spent our time shoveling shit in New Jersey....... |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 8:50:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Oh man, loving on the green! Thanks for sharing.
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Posted: 6/26/2017 8:51:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Welcome home, Ron. Ramble on a bit more, if you feel like it. Your call. I actually feel sorry for those sad examples of our age group who now tell me they "missed" going to Viet Nam. I bet they didn't feel like that at the time! They have no clue what they skated out of, the poor bastards. At least we don't have to tell people that we spent our time shoveling shit in New Jersey....... Thanks for the comments from everyone......... Luckly, I never had to fill sand bags, do KP or shovel shit. Yea! I was not sure where to post stuff about RVN. So, I usually don't post much about it. Most people that were there don't know much about Air Force Mobility Teams or OL's (Operational Landings) small landing strips most were short, many were powder dirt or mud. If you were in a forward area you knew what we did. If there was a place to post it I have a lot of pictures and information. Ron |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 8:56:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Andouille, Thanks for your service. Thanks for the comments from everyone......... Luckly, I never had to fill sand bags, do KP or shovel shit. Yea! I was not sure where to post stuff about RVN. So, I usually don't post much about it. Most people that were there don't know much about Air Force Mobility Teams or OL's (Operational Landings) small landing strips most were short, many were powder dirt or mud. If you were in a forward area you knew what we did. If there was a place to post it I have a lot of pictures and information. Ron I would be honored to hear more about your story |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 11:00:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryThanks, I started looking at the pictures and reading.
I want to finish reading it all. Some of the picture are places I was at and I know a few of the people in the pictures. Thanks again for given me a heads up on this. Ron |
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Posted: 6/27/2017 6:18:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like he may have a cleaning rod taped to the butstock with green 100mph tape too.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 7:50:19 PM EDT
[#37]
I posted a few pictures in the GD. (Vietnam)
I will dig out some more pictures and post them later. I real all the post, Good Read. Thanks again for the heads up. Ron |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 4:06:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Is this a 601 in this VN photo or a 602 with the older flash hider? http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/tom051876/50544757-9931-4668-88D9-6B1471E921EF_zpsb1m8wqsn.jpg Do you have a version of this that isn't cropped by chance? |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 4:32:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a version of this that isn't cropped by chance? |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 11:51:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Andouille, Thanks for your service. Thanks for the comments from everyone......... Luckly, I never had to fill sand bags, do KP or shovel shit. Yea! I was not sure where to post stuff about RVN. So, I usually don't post much about it. Most people that were there don't know much about Air Force Mobility Teams or OL's (Operational Landings) small landing strips most were short, many were powder dirt or mud. If you were in a forward area you knew what we did. If there was a place to post it I have a lot of pictures and information. Ron |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 10:23:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see no reason you can't post all the Vietnam pics here you want - that's really what we're into, and we have a history here of posting VN historical pics, so please, post away! Thank you for the other pics, BTW, and Thank you for your service! I don't get here much anymore, but I made a mistake in my previous post - meant to say CH not FH. I could be wrong, but I believe some early 602s still used the duckbill. Ekie would be the one to answer that. I'm just not buying the black paint on 601 or that it looks a little green - sorry. Just my .02 - this is exactly the kind of thread I've been missing! The kind of thread that made this forum what it is... |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 2:27:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I note that on the original thread with the pic, it is supposed to be from 1966, which fits with the uniform material noted. It would not be unreasonable to think that a 601 with some years of service behind it could have furniture or other parts replaced over time. In that case, then most likely a 602 or 604 with the FH replaced. Not likely? Remember, they were using them to break bands on ammo crates during resupply. Even the standard, improved 3-prongs were known to suffer this way, which is why the Army went with the birdcage. Interestingly enough, the USMC actually pulled the standard birdcage off new rifles and replaced them with the improved three-prong, which they apparently felt was superior... so, why would it be so out there to think a guy damaged his FH, went to find a new one so he wouldn't get chewed out, and ended up with a spare duckbill? Frankly, the more we talk about it, the more I think it's either a 602 or 604. My question is, what branch of service? My old mailman was in the 11th Air Assault, and I sold him my 604 - partly because he maintained that the weapons they were issued in 1965 by the Army had no forward assist. He was an ex-cop and former SWAT, so very weapons savvy. He'd had a number of Class II weapons. He was a door gunner, and preferred the Greasegun as a PDW, but that's what he was issued. The truth is, we will never know, but are we that sure to begin with that it's even a pic of an advisor? Those guys used all kinds of things, including chopped M1 carbines in paratrooper stocks. |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 1:01:48 PM EDT
[#43]
I ended up putting my Dad's VN pics in the real deal thread before there was a thread in the General discussion forum.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/290812_The-NEW-Real-Deal-AR-15-M-16-retro-picture-thread.html&page=17#i6568998 |
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