I've been meaning to post this for a while and finally getting around to it.  Not really AR-15 related but the long running retro shotgun thread tells me it should be appreciated here anyway.

This was a gun show display put together for a Washington Arms Collectors show about 6 years ago from items in my collection, with one exception.  The 870 Mk I was loaned to me for the weekend by a friend as my build was still in progress.  It is an actual GI 870 with proper roll marks but started out as a 20" riot gun, then fitted with original Mk I parts to represent the model for display.  All the other guns are original and correct as displayed.

I'll let the photos and captions tell the story.  Hope you enjoy....

I once talked to a guy who carried one, as a point man.

His description of his tour was "365 consecutive days of being scared absolutely shitless."

Neat display OP.

There's a good chance I went to that show!
I've got a neglected Rem. Model 10 take down with an extra barrel assy. Trying to decide what to do with it all.  
Very nice display, sir

I wish I would have been able to see it in person, I spent a long time in the Military and from your pictures, that is one of the most complete displays I have seen and I have seen a lot of Military Shotgun Displays over the years.

Nice Job!

Very cool.

Very nice, thanks for posting.

I was going to start a thread to ask, but I'll just ask you:  what's the correct finish on a Winchester 1200 receiver?  I'm working on a clone and don't have a really good answer.  Are the rest of the parts (other than the aluminum receiver) parked, heat shield included?  What about the trigger guard?  Thanks for your help.

ETA:  when did the military switch from brass to paper to plastic cartridges?

awesome thread. whirlpool flechettes, whodathunkit

Thanks to all for the compliments...  

Survivor45,  If that Remington Model 10 is a U.S. marked example, you COULD sell it to me to help get you through that tough decision.   Seriously, M10 trench guns are about the scarcest of all U.S. military shotguns and are a real bear to restore.  I have two project guns that I've been working on for 10+ years and am still missing many key components. Loose parts are about as hard to find as the guns so you often have to buy another incomplete gun to rob parts to help complete a better one.

The correct finish on a Winchester M1200 trench receiver is a flat black anodize.  All of the steel parts were parkerized and all of the other smaller aluminum pieces like the trigger guard were normally grey anodized.  Not sure why they didn't do the receivers in grey when the trigger guards were getting that finish already.  

I've seen a few M1200s with grey receivers but they all appeared to be arsenal refurbished guns.  And kind of like looking at refurbed M16s and scratching your head figuring out exactly what kind of finish was applied at some depot, some of the M1200s looked different than the others.  Some had a smooth finish and appeared to be grey anodized and others had a thicker coating that looked like a Moly coat or spray or finish of some sort.  I've never been able to buy one of those types so I haven't studied them closely though.

The history of U.S. military shot shells is one of those stories that seems to have repeated itself several times over the years.  In WWI, they started with paper shells and discovered the wet, sloppy, and muddy conditions in the trenches caused them to swell, be hard to chamber, and more subject to misfires.  This was corrected by the adoption of brass cased buckshot shells toward the end of the war.  These had a sawtooth crimp at the mouth and were used through the 1920s and 1930s.

By the outbreak of WWII, they had either forgotten the lessons of wet trenches or were forced into using paper shells again by materials shortages or the sheer numbers of shells needed, or ???  In fairness, paper shells worked fine for guard and stockade use in reasonably civilized surroundings.  But many went overseas and the same problems were encountered yet again.  Winchester and Remington did make brass shells through most of the war and they were refined and standardized as the M19 late in the war.

These were issued through the 1950s and into Vietnam but quantities in storage were limited. Amazingly, the Govt. yet again sent paper shot shells to the combat zone and, yet again, had problems with jungle conditions rendering them useless.  By now, plastic shells had gained a foothold in the civilian shotgun world so Uncle Sam looked toward that technology to get a more moisture resistant shot shell.  The XM162 plastic case 00 Buckshot round was type classified in March, 1962 and released for procurement in late 1963.

Fantastic display!  Great work and Thank you for sharing!

AWESOME Display & Collection!!!

Great pics and info. Thank you for posting.

Thanks a lot for your insight.

Hat tip. Any plans to hit the next Portland expo show?  Would love to see this in person

Oh sorry to get you all excited.... it's just a civilian shot gun.  Guess I should have been more clear on that.

Very cool and thanks for sharing

Fantastic collection. I'll try to get photos of my trenches posted in the next few days.
I have most all the variants including the Remington model 10 and a world war 2 Ithaca

When I carried the Winchester M1200, I remember the barrel, heat shield, and action bars were parkarized.  The receiver kept the original anondized blue finish.  I believe the trigger was matte blued IIRC.....

Very nice, thanks for sharing.

Step father has mentioned a few times about having to guard a prisoner with a pump action with pistol grip in a thigh rig.  He was a radar tech by MOS, so I am guessing it was only loaned to him for that occasion.

This would be my guess if it was something issued and not brought into theater.

Great and informative display! Just when I think I have seen most of your neat stuff, you toss out a fresh surprise.

Awesome collection, thanks for sharing!

I've seen only blued martial  Win 1200s.

His ammo collection is far more impressive than his shotgun collection.

I agree, those Flechette rounds are ugly!

I remember when I went to Basic Training at Fort Benning in 1999, some of the MP's patrolling the base were armed with Remington 870's equipped a pistol grip in lieu of a stock, a pistol-gripped forearm, and a 3-point sling.....

I've seen your pic before, but just noticed the checkered forearm rather than the smooth one most often associated with the military mod 1200.

AWESOME!!

Again, thanks for all the generous compliments.  That display was fun to assemble when the thought came to me.  My collecting interests tend to run hot and cold and on many different tangents, usually not connected to each other, other than being "military stuff".  Some days I'm more interested in AR-15s, or MGs, or munitions, or vehicles, or shotguns, or.......whatever.  I didn't specifically collect Vietnam era shotguns but have them as part of a larger WWI through Vietnam combat shotgun accumulation.  Same with the ammunition.  

It occurred to me one day that I had a fair group of both but they had never been tied together in a comprehensive display. This was the result.  I have other shotguns that would have been appropriate for a Vietnam display such as a Stevens 620 trench, but ran out of room in a single 8' table display.  I gave a lot of thought about deleting the Winchester M97 but LOTS of them were used in Vietnam and I've known at least 3 or 4 who personally carried one there at some point.  In reality, I could have tripled the number of shotguns displayed as a very wide variety of scatterguns were used during the war there.  But, there were a lot of minor variants I didn't own anyway, so that made the choices easier.

survivor45....  No problem.  Hey, new things for the collection turn up wherever they turn up.  Sometimes it's just a brief mention on a forum that leads to a cool new find.  Never hurts to ask more questions.

double_trouble_2003....  It's doubtful I'll ever set the display up at a Portland Expo show but have done it at the Oregon Arms Collectors August 2-day show once or twice.  Not sure about this year yet.

colt_thompson..... Looking forward to seeing some of your guns posted.  I never get tired of seeing GI trench and riot guns.

rico and Screechjet1.... You have my attention as I've never seen an M1200 I would describe as "blued" other than civilian guns.  The bulk of civilian M1200 sporting shotguns have a glossy black anodized receiver finish and the military one in rico's photo seems to have a shiny black finish.  Was that original finish or from wear and tear?  All legit GI M1200 trench guns I've enountered were either flat black anodize or some type of grey refinish.  But one of the fun things about shotgun collecting is finding something new and unexpected that throws a wrench into the "settled data".  Perhaps not as much arm wrestling on details as the M1 rifle, M1 carbine, or AR-15 guys do, but close.  If you can provide more info on blued U.S. military M1200s, I'm open for discussion.

There were several variations of the stocks used on the M1200 when I was there.  There were several that had the mil-spec walnut stocks, and several (including my issue) had the commercial stocks with a sling stud rather than the prescribed milspec sling swivel.  These were guns that were laterally transferred from I believe the 502nd IN (AASLT) to my unit 2/327th IN (AASLT) for our deployment to Kosovo.  Initially we had a familiarization course with less-than lethal beanbag and rubber buckshot rounds taught by 5th SFG (ABN) using Mossberg M590's, but issued the M1200 for deployment.

Just found this....didn't know M1200 were still in service.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBYW9F0D60

Coming up on 50 years in service.  Not too bad for a cheap, aluminum receiver shotgun that was supposed to be an inexpensive replacement for the Model 12.  I always thought the M1200 was surprisingly smooth and better than its cheap gun reputation.

I'm pretty sure they were all delivered with smooth oiled wood but Winchester sold the Army all sorts of commercial stocks and forends as replacement parts.

I will try to get pictures of a M1200 from a pretty substantial martial collector locally.

But, yours is fantastic collection. Very well done.

The Navy silent shotgun shell and the Navy Ithaca are primo pieces. Again, thanks for your hard work.

Maybe "blued" would be an incorrect terminology.  Anodized black would probably be more appropriate for an aluminum receiver, however I don't think it would be too far off to say the black finish might have been worn shiny over time.  I do remember it having a similar finish to the commercial 1200's that are available on the market today.

Since were on the subject of the M1200, here's my clone.

The receiver is coated in Alumahyde II flat black, the rest of the steel parts are parkerized.  

Couple quick pictures of some of my trenches
Attached File

Attached File

Very cool.  I used to hunt with a long barreled version of that Stevens. 

great collection. Thanks for sharing.  I have 12 military shotguns but I can not touch you on the accessories and the great display.

Very cool collection.....looks like you need a USAF M870 to go with the Navy/MC 870.....

colt_thompson,

Some great looking shotguns there.  Thanks for posting.

Awesome collection  

I would love to have the S&W 29 setup. What would you classify the pistol in the NFA? Would each round according to today's
NFA need a stamp? This could be a project gun built on a ruger once we get the hearing safe act past. Tagging this for future reference.

Or you could just use a Model 29 (or a 28).  By altering a replacement barrel, cylinder and ejector rod, the project would be reversible.  The relatively nice thing about the 1969 deployment date would be, you wouldn't need to look for or use a 4 or 5-screw gun, and the 3-screw non-diamond grip guns are probably easier to acquire, and almost certainly cheaper too.

Yes, the revolver itself would be an NFA item as the barrel was not rifled, just a straight tube.  The individual rounds, like the silent 12-ga shotshells, would be considered NFA items as they would effectively silence any weapon they were used with.  In reality of course, the only weapon the silent pistol shot cartridges will fit is the QSPR revolver.

The cartridges are about .520" diameter, IIRC, and the cylinder holes of the Model 29 are bored out to fit them leaving a paper thin wall.  That's not a problem with this gun as the pressure of firing is contained within each cartridge as they are shot and don't stress the cylinder walls.