37thguy's recent post regarding the Oxford "Lightning" Sights prompted me to dig mine out, and in looking at them again, I noticed a bunch of minor differences between them.  I figured it would be worth making a comparison post.  I'm guessing (but don't know) that one is older than the other, but it's not clear which is older (if that's the case at all).  Admittedly, I know little of these sights.  If anyone has info on when, and/or how long they were made, or if you have your own that shows further variations, I think that would be interesting to know.

I bought these as a pair on Ebay a few years back.  One is functional, one is not.

For those who don't know these, they're essentially very early red dot sights, except that they don't project a red dot, but a white one, using a tiny incandescent bulb.  The sight runs on two AA batteries, and is activated with a push through switch.  Push from the left (indented) to turn the sight on, and push from the right to turn it off.  There is a dial on the back end of the battery/switch case, which lets you turn up/down the brightness of the bulb.  The occular end is the narrow end, and the wide end is the objective.  The windage/elevation adjustments are made with knobs/screws on the objective end.  

For the purposes of these photos, I'll refer to the working optic as Sight A, and the non-working as Sight B.

Sight A appears complete, and does function.  Sight A has the RED parts on it.  It came with 1" unmarked Weaver style rings, but no mount.

Sight B has no mounting hardware.  It is missing the occular glass, though it's not clear that it serves any purpose other than dust/moisture protection.  The reason the sight doesn't work is because the bulb is broken.  I'll get to that later.

Ok, on with the photos. . .

These first four are just showing each side of the sights next to each other.  In each, A is on top, and B is on bottom.






A's Windage Adjustment:


B's Windage Adjustment:


A's Elevation Adjustment:

Note that it is marked with an R.  Not sure if that's because it has been replaced or if that's original.

B's Elevation Adjustment:


The Knurling on the battery compartment on A is a bit larger:


B's Knurling is finer:


The Switch/Bulb section of A:


The Switch/Bulb section of B:


And from above.  The circle is the bulb holder.  Notice that B's isn't just black, but textured.  A's is red and smooth:


The bulb holder is aluminum and screws into the larger knurled ring you can see below it.  That ring spins in place (but with some resistance), and doesn't APPEAR to do much.  I'm guessing it's to prevent overtightening?  B does function when I put A's bulb in it.  So I think the bulb is all that's wrong with it.

And from the back.  The lobed dial is the brightness adjuster.  Right is brighter, left is dimmer.  It's not easy to move, which is maybe a good thing.  The knob is plastic.



Both sights from the occular end. A is on the left, B is on the right.
Note that B is missing it's glass on this end.  The red ring and glass on A just pops out, and there is no further glass inside.  It's hard to see in the image, but the inside of the tube on B is threaded.  A's is not threaded inside, just smooth.


Both sights from the objective end.  A is on the left, B is on the right.
They both appear to have the same spanner nut retaining the glass on this end.


Here are the bulb holders removed.  A's bulb is intact (and itsy bitsy).  B's is broken, and I can't see any way to replace it.




The battery compartment is just an aluminum tube that unscrews from the switch housing.


The switch housing end of the battery compartment.  B's has a rubber pad surrounding the contact, glued or affixed in place.  On A, there is just a loose rubber O-Ring.  That O-Ring was in the bottom of the tube when I first put batteries in it.  That shorted out the batteries and the compartment was hot to the touch before I realized what was going on and pulled them out again.  Again, not sure if this is an original part, or just a replacement someone bubba'd in.  It works, but it doesn't seem ideal.

A:


B:


Here's the white dot as seen through A:


And the bulb compartment (of B) with the bulb holder removed.  I'm not sure what the threads are, but it should be possible to make up an LED that fits in there and would run off the normal batteries.  More projects I'll never get to. . .


And finally, here are the markings.  

A:


B:


Anyway, hope that's all helpful to someone some day.  

37thguy, if you pick that one up, I'd be interested to see how it compares.

I think the wight box ones are earlier and the fancier red box ones are later there was a add on magnifier available with the later ones as an potion listed on the red boxes. I believe this one has the right AR mount. I think they wear around from 67 tell you see them discounted in the back of magazines in 72 just guess work on my part
                          (  EDT FOND A SORE THAT CLAMS THEY CAME ON THE MARKET IN 1969 )










1969 article
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/11/16/american-rifleman-archives-oxford-gunsight/

old post on hear with red box
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/561328_.html&page=1

add from 1972 
https://books.google.com/books?id=gl31ZxmtlioC&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=oxford+gun+sight&source=bl&ots=PE0hhUyZm3&sig=CRCD6GUV5BjnvsKMFu3TAjFJe7Y&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNoMiBhvPQAhVlHGMKHUVdAFcQ6AEIMzAE#v=onepage&q=oxford%20gun%20sight&f=false

oxford gun sight

In your pictures it looks like the tube is blacked out. Do these function similarly to the singlepoint where you keep both eyes open and your brain superimposes the dot over the target or do you actually look through the tube and it just looks dark in the image?

You look throw them like a modern red dot theirs a gray neutral density filter that snaps on the front to make then more usable in bright light and the light sores is adjustable so their adjustable to most light conditions and like all red dots you can cover the front and use them as an occluded sight  ( aka single point)

you can sea the filter hear

oxford gun sight

The bulbs look like ones I used to have to change in Printronix printer switches.
Do you have a close-up photo of your good one and measurements?

Thanks for the links, DBL-TAPER.  I Haven't read through it all yet, but I did notice a diagram on the American Rifleman article that labeled the knurled ring as "focus control."  I may have to play with that when I get home tonight.

Pookie, it's not occluded, you can see through it like a regular red dot.  I just used a black chair as the background for that photo so you could see the dot more clearly.

SgtRock, I don't have a good close up photo or measurements, but can try to get some tonight.

This might help hope its legible

oxford gun sight

 



thout Id add better scans

Great thread TB.

Dbl-Taper can you email me measurements on your base and knob.  Im gunna ask Braceman if he'll make some for those of us that need one.

Going to make a wild ass guess until DBL-Taper weighs in.



This was off the shelf stuff, a modified Weaver mount, likely a 1/4 - 20 socket head cap screw, and a four lobe clamping knob.


Since we'll probably never find out what rifle the original Weaver mount was meant for, I located these... http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=iwpmnl845z00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Foptics-mounting%2Frings-mounts-amp-bases%2Fhandgun-bases%2F18-picatinny-scope-ring-base-sku713000112-9851-76158.aspx ...weaver rail blanks.


I have tried to find sources for the knob, it appears to be around 3/4" to 1" diameter (prong to prong).


ETA: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/01229525?fromRR=Y  these look very close a little tall but tapped for metric threads, they could be tapped for a thread insert which would be a hell of a lot stronger than the aluminum threads.


The old style Weaver rings are usually easy to find on E-pay

Good insights, Echo!

I messed around with the "Focus Control" tonight.  It just seemed to make the light a little brighter or dimmer.  Didn't seem to affect focus much.

SgtRock, here's the best I could pull for closeups with the phone.  I can try with my real camera another night.

The bulb itself is 0.120" in diameter.  If you look at the second image, you can see the bulb, then a metal base for it, and a flange attached to that (same metal), then an insulator, and then the threads for the cap.  The bulb portion (including the attached metal flange, measures 0.275" from the top of the insulator/base of the flange, to the top of the bulb.

I've tried removing the flange/broken bulb from B.  I tried using some needle nose pliers to unscrew the bulb from the cap, to no avail.  

It probably won't be until this weekend that I can rummage around in my garage for the bulbs mentioned.

Not sure how to attach photos to e mail on hear so IL post them hear

oxford gun sight

notice theirs a 60 on the mount or 09 depending witch way you look at it





theirs a screw in the front of the mount












and the front lens









OK let me know if you need sum more

oxford gun sight

 cross reference
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/706619_WIW---Oxford-Lightning-gunsight-Red-Dot.html

oxford gun sight

Thanks for the photos, DBL TAPER.  It definitely looks like that rail was mean to mount on top of a curved receiver, like a bolt gun.  Shouldn't be too hard to replicate though.

OK I went bye the hardware store and checked the thread and as suspected it is 1/4 20 

oxford gun sight

Thanks for the pics and measurements.


Pontiac??

yes 65 LeMans

Those bulbs almost look like the ones used on those teeny-tiny mag-lite

There is a double AA version rated at 5v

2 x AA bulb


Wonder if there is a way to rig it to get your second optic to work

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=821592&gclid=CKPAl-D4htECFYZlfgodoVUFCw&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051678402%2C&A=details&Q=

Saw that DBL-TAPER's weaver base had 60 stamped into it and went looking and came across this Weaver mount #60a ^^^

Pic in the link looks similar, 40+ years removed

Oh! Good thinking. Though the profile is wrong. DBL's is concave on the top, where that is raised. . .

HA! So, I think what we want is a Weaver #60, not a #60A. Found this on Ebay, and snagged it for $7 shipped. The photos are shitty, but it looks to have the correct profile on top, as well as the screw slots.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campId=5337559805&toolId=10001&customId=ix0mo4q9wc00zk8a00004&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F291713190456

Will report back after Xmas.

Geez, I diidn't notice the raised center vs concave center, just saw #60 and the side profile. LOL.

I didn't even think of E-pay. Duh!  https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campId=5337559805&toolId=10001&customId=ix7zxteng100zk8a00004&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FWEAVER-60-top-mount-base-rifle-scope-Browning-22-Rem-24-241-H-R-158-163-48060-%2F112156851427%3Fhash%3Ditem1a1d11bce3:g:CYoAAOSw4shX8uJX

I just ordered a few of these

I want to mount a vintage Weaver K-60

Have one on the way.  Got mine for $8

I received my order of Weaver #60 scope bases today. They are very close to DBL-TAPER's pics, however a few more machining steps will have to be performed to fit into the sight channel.

OK so thanks to Tumerboy I grabbed one of the weaver #60 mounts off e-bay to see the differences to the COOK mount so this Cook mount looks like a militarily item and a little more uncommon  then I tout it looks like it started as a weaver #60 probably an early version as the one I have and all the others have seen have a extra hole in them the modification are the rail is timed down from 0.64 to 0.50 and the front is slant cut the center hole is oped up to 1/4 fore the 1/4 x 1 1/4 cap screw I think this is why on mine and in the photos in the books you can see the paint coming off wear they make contact with the carry handle so Im thinking that whomever the COOK mount is named after or the company is or was they wear modifying weaver #60 mounts

oxford gun sight

Thanks for the comparison, DBL.  I just got home from the holidays and haven't had a chance to check the mail yet.

I'm fine with an extra hole, but we'll need to find someone (maybe Braceman?) to do some milling on it for the slant, the width and the center hole.

....and maybe he can make a repro nut too?

LOL

OK went over to my buddies place and he did little mill work last night cope of things he cut the rear angel a 5 degrees of angel to mach the carry handle sett it up in the mill vise with shims indexed off the rail notches to get the angel just right and the 1/4 20 cap screw is pressed in the rail I need to do sum measuring to see if we cut the recess deep  enough and the front hole is taped fore a set screw witch i just got and cant remember the size I think the original is lock tightened in the rail sides wear cut down to fit in the carry handle  now just a little paint and see if the knobs I ordered are close enough to make look right they dew be hear Tuesday I ordered from MSC industrial supply there its listed as an 1 1/8 in the on line add so we will see O and if you do order from them just look at the shipping little steep I himd and haw asked about cheaper shipping was offered faster at same price and then they offered to split shipping an that was OK came out to $ 7.85 each rail was $ 7.01 hardware was $ 1.03 paint ? and the help of a fend with a mill priceless and                  THANK YOU AGAIN    J.

76927060

1 INCH ALUMINUM USA STAR HAND KNOBS-TAPPD

oxford gun sight

Looks great!!

Thanks for helping out your fellow retro heads with all the measurements and pics.


ETA:  When you get a chance...what is the length of thread of the 1/4 - 20 cap screw, also the thread size and length of the set screw?

Thanks again

Damn; if I'd thought about the pics being posted, I'd have squared away my mill and workspace!  

Happy to help E., and I'm excited to read more about these older optics and mounts.  Keep the retro goodness flowing!

Thanks for the step by step, DBL.  Great to see it come together!  If only I had a friend with a mill. . .

OK sorry for not getting back hear sooner but I got the flu  OK the hardware is a 1/4 20 x 1 1/4 cap screw the set screw is 10/32 x 1/2 the knob if from MSC industrial supply #76927060 its a USA (brand) aluminum star handle knob 1 inch now in there on line catalog list it as 1 1/8 and the paper work lists 1 inch I figured we  needed 1 1/6 or so I averaged the original lobes to the center at .485 and a little work on the belt sander and its close you can see that theirs a difference in the cross section of the knob lobes and its a little tall original is 9/16 new is 5/8 tall the belt sander not as controbel so IL have to square it off on the mill later 

Thank you for all the information. I hope you are feeling better.

Is the set screw used to keep the mount level in the sight channel on the carry handle or is it to help with making elevation adjustments?

the mount rests on the front set screw and the milled out area in the back I think the set screw is just there to stabilize and level the mount Im sure you may be able to use it to adjust elevation with but with ether a m84 or oxford sight you have adjustment on them

Thanks to DBL my Weaver #60 has arrived from eBay!  Maybe I can modify the knob "wings" and thin them out to better match the original...

Great thread. Been offline for awhile. Come back and more talent on display in the retro forum.

And now I want an Oxford.

OK thot Id repost the instructions sheats I used the saner this time 

oxford gun sight

OK Iv bean going thru the black book posted online hear    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9hAva_yxlzPNUxaa0psb0RXWUU
 and on page 253 in the chapter on adding optics to the m16a1 I see wear they received 100 modified weaver bases and rings for m16a1 in November of 1967 I think these are probable the cook mounts we bean working on and a BIG Thank you go out to @BROvet04  for posting those grate retro mauls 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             th
this photo is from The Long Range War Sniping in  Vietam by Senich, Peter R.