GUU-5/P article - AR15.COM

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Posted: 8/16/2016 2:28:22 AM EDT

Hey guys, I just wanted to let everyone here know that my piece on the US Air Force's GUU-5/P will be appearing in the upcoming Small Arms Defense Journal, Volume 8, Number 5. The same group that publishes Small Arms Review publishes SADJ. I wanted to thank everyone who helped with photos. In the end, of the clone pics I submitted with permission, they only picked Scotter260's shot, which appears with the article. When the magazine officially hits news stands, I'll make sure to post full copies of the documents at the core of the piece online so the community can use them for their builds. Thanks again!

Posted: 8/16/2016 3:58:25 AM EDT

[#1]

Thank you!

Posted: 8/16/2016 3:58:59 AM EDT

[#2]

Thank you! ??

Posted: 8/16/2016 4:02:47 AM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thank you!

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Posted: 8/16/2016 6:22:56 AM EDT

[#4]

Many thanks

Posted: 8/16/2016 6:24:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Got it yesterday. Great article.

--fjruple

Posted: 8/17/2016 11:23:27 AM EDT

[#6]

Thank you - still not sure why as I KNOW many here have much more "authentic" versions than mine.

It's an honor considering the high cotton one stands in while in this particular sub forum.

Posted: 8/18/2016 10:39:00 PM EDT

[#7]

Any idea when mooches like me get to see pics or copies

Posted: 8/19/2016 7:57:20 AM EDT

[#8]

Seems like the article is out now. I can't see it on their site, though. Mind posting pics?

Posted: 8/19/2016 8:33:44 PM EDT

[#9]

I'll post the docs online over the weekend. With the exception of the scan of the USAF Technical Order parts breakdown, they're all ones people here have seen before. You can find even more here: https://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/retroblackrifle/ModGde/CrbGde/USAFGdeCrb.html. The article was more aimed at finally nailing down a more complete history, pointing out that "GAU-5/P" is most likely a typo and never existed (GUU-5/P is on documents as early as 1989 describing early generation, pencil barrel conversions), and highlighting the other new info I got through FOIA.

Posted: 8/20/2016 7:55:31 AM EDT

[#10]

What was the twist rate on the 14.5" pencil barrels they used to re-barrel?

Posted: 8/20/2016 12:25:27 PM EDT

[#11]

I assume the pencil barrels were still 1:12, but they could have been 1:7. By 1989, the pencil barrels are listed in the parts TO's part's list, but the attached changes with descriptions are only for the 1:7 A2/gov't profile barrels.

Here are the technical documents I got through FOIA:

GUU-5/P Scope of Work, undated - https://www.scribd.com/document/321756022/GUU-5-P-Scope-of-Work

Extracts from TO 11W3-5-5-1-1, 1989 - https://www.scribd.com/document/321756076/Extracts-from-US-Air-Force-TO-11W3-5-5-1-1-Submachine-Gun-5-56mm

WR-ALC Suggestion No. WR-85-0066, Converting M16 Rifles to GUU-5P Submachine Guns, 1985 - https://www.scribd.com/document/321755878/WR-ALC-Suggestion-No-WR-85-0066-Converting-M16-Rifles-to-GUU-5P-Submachine-Guns

Position Paper on Modifying GUU5/P, 1998 - https://www.scribd.com/document/321756160/US-Air-Force-Position-Paper-on-Modifying-GUU5-P

Posted: 8/20/2016 12:38:06 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I assume the pencil barrels were still 1:12, but they could have been 1:7. By 1989, the pencil barrels are listed in the parts TO's part's list, but the attached changes with descriptions are only for the 1:7 A2/gov't profile barrels.

Here are the technical documents I got through FOIA:

GUU-5/P Scope of Work, undated - https://www.scribd.com/document/321756022/GUU-5-P-Scope-of-Work

Extracts from TO 11W3-5-5-1-1, 1989 - https://www.scribd.com/document/321756076/Extracts-from-US-Air-Force-TO-11W3-5-5-1-1-Submachine-Gun-5-56mm

WR-ALC Suggestion No. WR-85-0066, Converting M16 Rifles to GUU-5P Submachine Guns, 1985 - https://www.scribd.com/document/321755878/WR-ALC-Suggestion-No-WR-85-0066-Converting-M16-Rifles-to-GUU-5P-Submachine-Guns

Position Paper on Modifying GUU5/P, 1998 - https://www.scribd.com/document/321756160/US-Air-Force-Position-Paper-on-Modifying-GUU5-P

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Awesome post! Thank you for the documents.

Posted: 8/22/2016 2:50:37 PM EDT

[#13]

Your IM box is full.

Thank you for the copy of the magazine - very interesting article.

It was very cool seeing my photo! Thank you for its inclusion.

Many regards sir.

Posted: 8/22/2016 3:23:38 PM EDT

[#14]

Glad it got there when it said it would. And I'll have to clean out my inbox again.

Posted: 8/22/2016 4:56:51 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
What was the twist rate on the 14.5" pencil barrels they used to re-barrel?

View Quote

https://www.scribd.com/document/321756076/Extracts-from-US-Air-Force-TO-11W3-5-5-1-1-Submachine-Gun-5-56mm

The bottom of page three in this document shows 1:7 twist

Posted: 8/22/2016 5:21:08 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

https://www.scribd.com/document/321756076/Extracts-from-US-Air-Force-TO-11W3-5-5-1-1-Submachine-Gun-5-56mm

The bottom of page three in this document shows 1:7 twist

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What was the twist rate on the 14.5" pencil barrels they used to re-barrel?

https://www.scribd.com/document/321756076/Extracts-from-US-Air-Force-TO-11W3-5-5-1-1-Submachine-Gun-5-56mm

The bottom of page three in this document shows 1:7 twist

That's for the M4 profile barrels. It lists the barrel as "M203 Compatable," so it has M203 cuts in the barrel.

I found an archived thread on here that had the correspondence between Thatguy96, TSgt. Kevin Payne, and Gary Stuebben that seems to indicate the 14.5" pencil barrels were 1:12.

Posted: 8/22/2016 5:24:09 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

That's for the M4 profile barrels. It lists the barrel as "M203 Compatable," so it has M203 cuts in the barrel.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What was the twist rate on the 14.5" pencil barrels they used to re-barrel?

https://www.scribd.com/document/321756076/Extracts-from-US-Air-Force-TO-11W3-5-5-1-1-Submachine-Gun-5-56mm

The bottom of page three in this document shows 1:7 twist

That's for the M4 profile barrels. It lists the barrel as "M203 Compatable," so it has M203 cuts in the barrel.

Shows two part numbers, only one says 203 compatible (64698) the other is (64632)

ETA: Can't find any PN listings on the google...

Posted: 8/22/2016 5:25:49 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

Shows two part numbers, only one says 203 compatible

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What was the twist rate on the 14.5" pencil barrels they used to re-barrel?

https://www.scribd.com/document/321756076/Extracts-from-US-Air-Force-TO-11W3-5-5-1-1-Submachine-Gun-5-56mm

The bottom of page three in this document shows 1:7 twist

That's for the M4 profile barrels. It lists the barrel as "M203 Compatable," so it has M203 cuts in the barrel.

Shows two part numbers, only one says 203 compatible

Ah, you're right.

Posted: 8/23/2016 2:54:28 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Shows two part numbers, only one says 203 compatible (64698) the other is (64632)

ETA: Can't find any PN listings on the google...

View Quote

So researching it some more, I've found posts in archived threads regarding this. The posts are regarding various members experiences with the GUU-5P

"Every GUU-5P that I have handled has had a barrel with a 1/7 twist rate. They have included both A2 (.750" with A2 Flashhider) and M4 profiles (.750" with A2 Flashhider, and step cut for M203)."

That non-203 compatible barrel (64632) may be an A2 profile barrel.

It seems the pencil profile barrels were 1/12, at least according to members here.

"FWIW, My unit had GUU-5P's with 1/12, 14.5" bbls for many years before the USAF started converting to 14.5, 1/7 bbls."

Posted: 9/6/2016 9:32:13 PM EDT

[#20]

I've handled several GUU-5/P's that had the flyweight A1 profile barrel that were in 1/7.....

Bottom two GUU-5/P's were 1/7

Posted: 9/6/2016 10:17:45 PM EDT

[#21]

What kinda barrel does the middle one have?

Posted: 9/7/2016 12:43:16 AM EDT

[#22]

Awesome Pics Rico. I have handled and seen a few. Never took pics. Wish I had.

Posted: 9/7/2016 11:04:24 AM EDT

[#23]

I remember that those had non-"F" marked M-4 style barrels. The lack of the "F" mark and the sling swivel attached to the front sight was the identifier for a GUU barrel.....

Posted: 9/25/2016 11:07:24 PM EDT

[#24]

Is there a place we can find a copy of the journal?

Posted: 9/26/2016 12:24:44 AM EDT

[#25]

Ive been issued the GAU, GUU, and lastly M4. While i liked them all for various reasons, I preffered the pencil barrel GUU. I only wished i had taken pics over the years, but knew enough about them i could pretty easily build one up from memory. And i have on several occasions now. I did have a pencil barrel that was 7 twist. It was slick side too.

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