For you guys that aren't aware of I.T.A.R.; you should stroll over to GD and take a look at this.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1892880_Gunsmithing_and_I_T_A_R.html

Unless something changes, this could  severely impact the retro hobby.  Most of the retro hobby is supported by a cottage industry of little guys in home shops. They will not pony up $2250 a year and register with the State Department, they'll just close their doors.

Please note too that as far as I can see this does not just apply to businesses. If you do machining on a firearm or make a part for it you are breaking the law EVEN IF IT IS YOUR PERSONAL PROPERTY.

EDIT:OK, disregard the previous paragraph;  I calmed down a bit and re read the WHOLE thing; I was so focused on the definitions of manufacturing that I'd skipped the beginning . It does say it applies to businesses, but ONE instance will classify you as a business.

If someone can show me a bright spot here I'd really like to see it.

The link doesn't work - 404 error

works for me.  

heated

I'm sorry! I don't know how to hot link and I'm too tired and POd to try right now.

Bing lookup won't do it, but I get it if I copy/paste to Google.

Thanks Indiana!

One of the problems that we can run into with ITAR is the "exporting" of technical data that happens when posting information related to the manufacturing of arms defined in the following link.

                        International Traffic In Arms Regulations  - PART 121-THE UNITED STATES MUNITIONS LIST

If any of you are familiar with the legal hassles that Defense Distributed is having with the Ghost Gunner and the distribution of CNC files for that machine, then you know how ITAR can effect the posting of "how to" information related to our hobby.

You can post onto a forum "I drilled a hole to allow...." and that's OK because no one can use that information to construct a device defined in Part 121 of ITAR.  You haven't made enough technical information available with that kind of statement.

But if you post "I drilled a 0.125" dia hole that was 0.500" directly above datum X to allow...". You may have just "exported" technical data that would allow someone in an export controlled country to construct a controlled munition.

Distribution of a CNC program that machines an AR15 lower is, unfortunately, tecnhical data that is controlled by ITAR and posting it onto an internet forum is exporting.  To do so requires an export license with state department approval.  They don't give blanket approvals either.  You must know who will receive the technical data and that the data will not be re-exported without an additional state department license and approval.

If you're in the business of making firearms, you are already restricted from exporting firearm parts to outside the US w/o the proper export licensing and approval.
ITAR expands the export restrictions to include technical data.
Exporting technical data can happen by sending blueprints, posting onto the internet, and even talking over the phone.

None of this is new, and shouldn't be news to anyone paying attention to ITAR.





It's just traditionally rarely or never enforced on the individual, gunsmith, or shade tree manufacturer.



The thing to do is contact your Congressmen and push for small arms to be delisted from ITAR.

Really seems like the 605 and XM177E2 builds are going to slow down.  

About as enforceable as 922(r).

State Department does not have time to investigate every Tom Dick and Harry selling retro AR15 part to see if they have paid the ITAR fees. They are too busy figuring out how to cover up the next consulate attack.

Not enforceable across the board. 10s of thousands of gunsmiths in the US. Would be nice to hear what the NRA is doing about this BS though.

There is no Executive Order number I can find in reference to this. It appears the State Department or the DDTC made this decision on it's own.

So I have strolled down ITAR lane, as in I read a lot about it because I wanted to become a manufacturer. I would have done it already but this darn ITAR fee is pretty steep. A friend of mine has gone through the process recently and is now a manufacturer. In his on premises interview, the ATF agents talked to him about ITAR and ensured he knew he "had" to pay it to the DOS to receive his license.

Furthermore.... I learned the hard way how interpretive and overreaching it can be.  Customs seized a type D stock and grip valued at less than $100 en-route to NZ declared properly on the customs form with value and description. The price of under $100, along with the fact it has an other than military purpose as described in the ITAR makes it exempt from the ITAR requirements to receive export licensing. The receiver even had import permits from NZ to accept it when it arrived.  


None of this stopped me from a few very uncomfortable question and answer sessions and what the DHS agents referred to as a "training session"


whats funny is they took the seized the type D and sent the PG to NZ...


Bogus law that is enforced when convenient and at the will of at least customs and DHS, and pimped by the FBI.

So, Live 4 what do you plan to do in the future?

BTW: once upon a time there was a 1948 Chrysler transmission linkage pin "exported" to Canada that really looked a lot like the front pin from a 601. Or so I've heard.

What about airsoft parts?

This. People in AZ, Montana and several other states have statutes recently enacted that nullifies this. You know what caused the first Civil War? State's rights. The 10th amendment. Look it up. I haven't talked to my gunsmith lately, but I'll be doing a transfer soon and he's a Class II mfg and general Class III guys. He's built Howitzers. Please note the civil disobedience surrounding marijuana - you really think we give a shit what they say in Washington any more? People are pissed and they know it. I see a Civil War in the near future- with Hillary it'll be guns, with Trump it'll be race. Don't y'all understand? They WANT a war. Time to thin the herd. Obama is just setting the stage.

Well I guess I really don't even know whats going on! I didn't even go into the GD thread but I read this article and the thread makes a lot more sense know




 

 
Yeah, seems more like one of those laws they'll use against you if you're a big fish criminal or something and need some kind of way to prosecute you for something illegal.


People still follow 922(r) though. So even if this isn't going to get anyone in trouble, people will still follow it. And, as such, will impact the industry regardless.

ITAR is a huge pain.  We can't even technically get 80% uppers shipped up here without State Dept approval.  A lot have been shipped in the past because both parties were unaware of the requirements.

Definitely makes it tough for retro heads.  People need to bring stuff in in bulk to make it worthwile with all the export/import costs.

I never intended to do it, so no prosecutor would ever consider a case like this....

Folks--

This new Executive Order is an attempt to get around the Senate who has the authority to ratify the UN Small Arms Treaty.   Obama simply issues an Executive Order to go ahead and implement the UN Small Arms Treaty without Senate approval.  Folks should read the UN Small Arms Treaty its very enlightening.  The cost of the yearly license fees ($2,250.00) are to pay for secretariat for the treaty which the US has to pay 22%. Even tough Obama wants to add an "I" to his legacy. ("I" did this and "I" did that.)   The main pusher for this UN treaty was Hillary when she was Secretary of State. Obama is quick to steal the credit.   While we are focus on gunsmith part, the treaty covers any part that can go into a "defense article" even if its not to be exported.  If you manufacture machined bolts for a diesel engine that goes into an obsolete tank, technically you have to get a $2,250.00 license.  I personally view this Executive Order as unenforceable, DDTC has enough problems just dealing what is on their plate now. Then to go after a part time gunsmith who is making firing pins for an obsolete shotgun.

--fjruple

This. This x87.

No, wait...

Even more retarder is when the Canadian Forces or any LE agencies in Canada buy anything from Colt Canada they have to get approval from the US State Dept. Same thing with all the civie Diemaco branded rifles. So far 6 models have been approved from the US State Dept. for civilian sales in Canada.

It is not an executive order. Not even close. The industry has been asking for guidance from DDTC on ITAR for a long time. Unlike ATF which defines "manufacturing" in its regulations, DDTC does not. This is the result of that request for guidance. The only thing on that list that should be surprising to anyone is the threading of barrels.

OR "the making a rifle more accurate" provision

I agree, start of the small arms treaty, one step at a time.

Im an 07 and so far they tell me Im exempt as I am not actively drilling or cutting or making a firearm more accurate, they dont seem to think AR barrel changes or swapping pistol sights counts..they said pretty much unless you are machining parts either new or to increase accuracy..such as blue printing receivers..you can be exempt..

So screw the small guys first, then up the chain from there.