Here is a well worn Balimoy Industries M16A2 to M16A4 conv. for your perusal (pics) - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Here is a well worn Balimoy Industries M16A2 to M16A4 conv. for your perusal (pics)

Posted: 8/28/2015 8:36:17 PM EDT

I've seen several Balimoy Industries M16A1 to M16A2 conversions, but this is the first time I've seen an M16A2 converted to M16A4 by Balimoy. Upper is almost Bushmaster purple in color (doesn't really show in the pics). The lower has the reground oval and BURST stamp just like an A1 to A2 conversion, even though this rifle should have been born as a BURST gun. The manufacturer's "code" is an odd one to me too. Did they grind off the pony or FN? If so, why is there an overstamp needed on the "2." It also has the typical Balimoy raised selector on the right side.

The rifle is way more worn than it looks in the pics,and the state of the butt plate and trap door make me wonder if it did time at Basic training in its previous life.

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting piece so I figured the M16 gurus and gun nerds of the Retro forum would be interested.

Posted: 8/28/2015 8:52:58 PM EDT

[#1]

Anybody know who MFR 2U894 is?

Posted: 8/28/2015 8:57:28 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:
Anybody know who MFR 2U894 is?

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Balimoy. Nice replacement A1 to A2 to A4. I've only seen A1 to A2. One of my guys said he had a Balimoy M4 at AIT. Who knows with the mass rebuild programs turning A2's to M4's for deploying Guard an Reserves.

Posted: 8/28/2015 9:08:09 PM EDT

[#3]

Gorgeous, that thing is.

Posted: 8/28/2015 9:09:55 PM EDT

[#4]

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Gorgeous, that thing is.

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You've been drinking.

I love A4s but that one has been beat.

Posted: 8/28/2015 9:34:09 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:

You've been drinking.

I love A4s but that one has been beat.

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Quoted:
Gorgeous, that thing is.

You've been drinking.

I love A4s but that one has been beat.

That's what makes it gorgeous.

Sure, if it was mine, I'd want it pristine, but it's neat to see well used rifles.

Posted: 8/28/2015 9:59:45 PM EDT

[#6]

What is that gold colored thing on the left mag well?

Posted: 8/28/2015 10:47:01 PM EDT

[#7]

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What is that gold colored thing on the left mag well?

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Its a inventory device for the arms room IIRC.

Posted: 8/28/2015 10:47:27 PM EDT

[#8]

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What is that gold colored thing on the left mag well?

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Prob. A chip.

Posted: 8/28/2015 10:48:16 PM EDT

[#9]

It looks like the primer end of a 5.56 shell epoxied in place.

Posted: 8/28/2015 10:54:52 PM EDT

[#10]

Awesome pictures man, thanks for posting

I generally dont have an interest in A2 stuff, but I really like that early A2 lower profile where you can see the rear take down pin detent channel. I wish you could still buy an Ar15 lower in that profile.

Posted: 8/29/2015 2:33:53 AM EDT

[#11]

NM, A4 marking was there, but I'm old, I guess.

Posted: 8/29/2015 4:41:16 AM EDT

[#12]

Thanks for sharing the pics OP! In before thread gets moved some where else. I never seen a raised tic selector like that before:

Posted: 8/29/2015 6:06:19 AM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
Thanks for sharing the pics OP! In before thread gets moved some where else. I never seen a raised tic selector like that before:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b250/fightinghellfish/DSC00190_zpseb4rho61.jpg

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The Balimoy "parts guns" is where you see that selector.

I don't know why they would move the thread. The retro forum is where the parts and particulars of old obsolete M16 variants are discussed. Unfortunately M16A2 and A4 fall in that category now.... It sucks getting old.

Posted: 8/29/2015 6:30:26 AM EDT

[#14]

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Balimoy.

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Quoted:

Anybody know who MFR 2U894 is?

Balimoy.

Yep.

I was invited to tour Balimoy's shop in the late 70s shortly before they were bought by DSE, Inc. - humble little locally owned operation.

Posted: 8/29/2015 7:08:56 AM EDT

[#15]

Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

Posted: 8/29/2015 7:53:27 AM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

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How is the A4 obsolete? They are still used by the USMC

Posted: 8/29/2015 8:37:27 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

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I don't view the A1's as obsolete

Posted: 8/29/2015 8:51:15 AM EDT

[#18]

I love the wear on it! There's no way to reproduce that except rattling around in vehicles for years and thrown in stacks of other rifles, used as a makeshift ladder, and beiing drug through the dirt. BEAUTIFUL!

Posted: 8/29/2015 9:45:42 AM EDT

[#19]

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Gorgeous, that thing is.

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I agree with Yoda.

Posted: 8/29/2015 10:42:55 AM EDT

[#20]

Is it just my eyes, or is the rear takedown pin larger than normal?

Posted: 8/29/2015 10:59:53 AM EDT

[#21]

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I don't view the A1's as obsolete

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

I don't view the A1's as obsolete

While you may not the DOD does and the they're only ones that count. The 6XX and A1s are actually a backslide in some ways in the evolution of the AR with the deviation to the triangle hand guards and fixed sights, its almost a generation lost until the return to round HGs and adjustable drum sights of the A2. But alas, while the A2 is the ultimate evolution of the iron site service rifle, technology has rendered them obsolete. As for the A4 being obsolete, as with all technology its just a matter of time and with the services contracting and the A4s not being 'vehicle operable' railed M4s have generally replaced the A4 everywhere but training brigades. Heck both the CMP and NRA have even adopted new service rifle competition rules for 16", 18" and 20" rifles with a 4x optic for 2016.

Simplicity and ease of use does with pleasing ascetics cannot not keep something from becoming obsolete it just becomes retro.

Posted: 8/29/2015 12:43:53 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

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Well the U.S. Army stamped M16A4 on the side...

I don't think I've ever seen an A4 that wasnt a burst gun.

Posted: 8/29/2015 1:38:15 PM EDT

[#23]

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What is that gold colored thing on the left mag well?

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Looks like those device that contains guns info... I've seen them on issued aimpoint too

Posted: 8/29/2015 1:46:50 PM EDT

[#24]

Is there a source for well used A2 pistol grips and stock parts like in the photo, You never seem to see them for sale.

Posted: 8/29/2015 5:01:18 PM EDT

[#25]

Nice piece

, thanks for sharing, Fighting! Gotta love that full-length rail with nothing weighing the rifle down, yet

Posted: 8/29/2015 5:16:28 PM EDT

[#26]

I think its interesting that the left side burst looks like its been modified, but the right side never has.

Posted: 8/29/2015 6:28:19 PM EDT

[#27]

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I think its interesting that the left side burst looks like its been modified, but the right side never has.

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Originals had no selector markings on the right side at all. Those were added sometime after the A2 upgrade to burst took place, so there was never an "AUTO" to be machined off and marked over on the right side.

Posted: 8/30/2015 4:23:26 AM EDT

[#28]

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Originals had no selector markings on the right side at all. Those were added sometime after the A2 upgrade to burst took place, so there was never an "AUTO" to be machined off and marked over on the right side.

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Quoted:
I think its interesting that the left side burst looks like its been modified, but the right side never has.

Originals had no selector markings on the right side at all. Those were added sometime after the A2 upgrade to burst took place, so there was never an "AUTO" to be machined off and marked over on the right side.

Makes sense but Its interesting that an A1 lower was built using an A2 forging

Posted: 8/30/2015 7:40:42 AM EDT

[#29]

Cool, thanks for the pics

Posted: 8/30/2015 9:50:34 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

View Quote

According to FM 3-22.9:

An M16A2 and M16A3 look exactly the same except the A2 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst and the A3 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Auto.

M16A4 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst .

Posted: 8/30/2015 10:07:53 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

According to FM 3-22.9:

An M16A2 and M16A3 look exactly the same except the A2 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst and the A3 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Auto.

M16A4 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst .

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

According to FM 3-22.9:

An M16A2 and M16A3 look exactly the same except the A2 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst and the A3 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Auto.

M16A4 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst .

He is using the paradigm (civilian) of a flat top being an A3

Posted: 8/30/2015 10:31:44 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

He is using the paradigm (civilian) of a flat top being an A3

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

According to FM 3-22.9:

An M16A2 and M16A3 look exactly the same except the A2 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst and the A3 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Auto.

M16A4 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst .

He is using the paradigm (civilian) of a flat top being an A3

I don't think so. He said "Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion". No mention was made of the flattop or not, just burst.

Posted: 8/30/2015 10:37:35 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't think so. He said "Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion". No mention was made of the flattop or not, just burst.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

According to FM 3-22.9:

An M16A2 and M16A3 look exactly the same except the A2 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst and the A3 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Auto.

M16A4 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst .

He is using the paradigm (civilian) of a flat top being an A3

I don't think so. He said "Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion". No mention was made of the flattop or not, just burst.

I think his point was that as the left side burst marking was done as a conversion, it must have been an A3 that was converted (which would have originally said auto).

I recall Balimoy offering A2 profile A1 replacement receivers, however. That was likely the case with this lower (repurposed for an A4).

Posted: 8/30/2015 11:45:00 AM EDT

[#34]

You can see the 2 stamped out and A4 added, it was never an A3

Posted: 8/30/2015 1:15:36 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:

I think his point was that as the left side burst marking was done as a conversion, it must have been an A3 that was converted (which would have originally said auto).

I recall Balimoy offering A2 profile A1 replacement receivers, however. That was likely the case with this lower (repurposed for an A4).

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion.

ETA:
.A2s, A3s and A4s are obsolete and therefore Retro, accept it.

According to FM 3-22.9:

An M16A2 and M16A3 look exactly the same except the A2 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst and the A3 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Auto.

M16A4 fire control group is Safe-Semi-Burst .

He is using the paradigm (civilian) of a flat top being an A3

I don't think so. He said "Its not an A4 its a burst a marked gun which makes it an A3 conversion". No mention was made of the flattop or not, just burst.

I think his point was that as the left side burst marking was done as a conversion, it must have been an A3 that was converted (which would have originally said auto).

I recall Balimoy offering A2 profile A1 replacement receivers, however. That was likely the case with this lower (repurposed for an A4).

Yes, I am sure this started life as an A1 replacement receiver that was later converted to A2 and finally converted to A4.

Edited to add: Here are some pics I took several years ago of a Balimoy A2 from the weapons pool at Fort Sill. You can see where the "AUTO" marking was replaced with "BURST" when it was converted from A1 to A2.

Posted: 8/30/2015 10:51:04 PM EDT

[#36]

Holy shit. I am in love.

Posted: 8/30/2015 11:33:10 PM EDT

[#37]

I wanna build this.

Posted: 8/30/2015 11:50:11 PM EDT

[#38]

The McKay lowers remind me of the Balimoy replacements, with their simple markings.

Posted: 8/31/2015 8:03:22 PM EDT

[#39]

Looks like I'll have to break out the sandpaper and buy a new upper. Got to over stamp it again too.

Posted: 8/31/2015 10:47:15 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
Looks like I'll have to break out the sandpaper and buy a new upper. Got to over stamp it again too.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/railhead1/balimoy004_zps15384d41.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/railhead1/002_zpsdf3e450c.jpg

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Nice! Who did your engraving? They really nailed it.

Does the rifle in the OP have an A1 buttplate or is it just super worn? It doesn't appear to have the characteristic checkering that an A2 does, or maybe it's just seen a lot of use.

Posted: 9/1/2015 7:02:47 AM EDT

[#41]

Braceman did the engraving. He also hooked me up with a raised tic selector. He's a great guy to deal with, but I think everyone already knows that.

Posted: 9/1/2015 8:45:35 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Looks like I'll have to break out the sandpaper and buy a new upper. Got to over stamp it again too.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/railhead1/balimoy004_zps15384d41.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/railhead1/002_zpsdf3e450c.jpg

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Niiiice...

Posted: 9/1/2015 12:17:25 PM EDT

[#43]

Dammit.....I'm now cobbling together parts for this build. Upper (check), KAC M5 RAS (working on), A2 barrel (searching), Used A2 pistol grip and stock (check)