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Posted: 8/25/2015 8:14:16 PM EDT
This is a factory new colt 9mm so these are not upgrades or enhancements on the gun. I have never seen 2 pins for the sear block before. Also the buffer is engraved 9mm and the sear block looks unfinished. Any ideas?
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Posted: 8/25/2015 8:44:34 PM EDT
[#1]
It certainly "looks" like a neutering of a full auto gun. Which is legal in certain global locations (certain parts of Europe for instance).
It clearly looks like the sear block went in after anodizing, as you can see the shinning aluminum around the pins. It's certainly possible that colt decided to factory modify some SMGs to sell out the stock, and a sear block would be an easy way to do that. Is the magazine block pinned in as well? Do those pins exhibit the raw aluminum like the sear block? What's the markings on it? Is it a Colt Defense marked gun? Does it say SMG on it? |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 8:54:01 PM EDT
[#3]
it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned.
it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. 
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:10:15 PM EDT
[#4]
I know the guys are beating on me, but point is, it's not "factory".
Someone pulled the sear block out, milled off the top, and put it back in... |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:13:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are making my exact point. I looks like someone took a gun with a sear, drilled out the pins, put in a modified sear block, and sold the darn thing... I would assume a factory 9mm SMG would have been andozied after machining... I actually doubt the OP "factory rifle" statement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It certainly "looks" like a neutering of a full auto gun. Which is legal in certain global locations (certain parts of Europe for instance). It clearly looks like the sear block went in after anodizing, as you can see the shinning aluminum around the pins. It's certainly possible that colt decided to factory modify some SMGs to sell out the stock, and a sear block would be an easy way to do that. Is the magazine block pinned in as well? Do those pins exhibit the raw aluminum like the sear block? What's the markings on it? Is it a Colt Defense marked gun? Does it say SMG on it? You ever seen inside a lower with an auto sear? <a href="http://s983.photobucket.com/user/44Echo10/media/Gun%20Stuff/AR/Colt619Internals_zps6f4908dd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae318/44Echo10/Gun%20Stuff/AR/Colt619Internals_zps6f4908dd.jpg</a> Have a gander at that pic up yonder.^^^ Sear block has been machined to fit a standard carrier in lieu of a "half moon bcg". You are making my exact point. I looks like someone took a gun with a sear, drilled out the pins, put in a modified sear block, and sold the darn thing... I would assume a factory 9mm SMG would have been andozied after machining... I actually doubt the OP "factory rifle" statement. No Brother, you are missing the point. His lower is a semi lower. The rear portion of a receiver with an auto sear is the same width as the front until it reaches the area of the take down pin. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:15:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the guys are beating on me, but point is, it's not "factory". Someone pulled the sear block out, milled off the top, and put it back in... define "factory" the factory installed block is still there, you can mill it flush without removing it. if you google removing it, you'll see that it's a pain to do and if someone did successfully remove it without destroying it, why would they go through the trouble of reinstalling it? |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:17:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the guys are beating on me, but point is, it's not "factory". Someone pulled the sear block out, milled off the top, and put it back in... The sear blocks cannot be removed by non destructive means. If it is out, it is out for good it's non-replaceable. You don't have to remove it to mill the top off. ETA:  Man, I am not beating you down, just trying to show you the difference between semi and auto lowers. My comment above about the block being machined was just a simple observation.
Eta2: Why is it Colt is the company that does stupid shit like this and the large FCG pins??  Hell, they are the ones who brought it (the AR15) to us.
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:34:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the guys are beating on me, but point is, it's not "factory". Someone pulled the sear block out, milled off the top, and put it back in... It is a factory gun. Brand new in box with wick in the barrel and everything |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:42:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:47:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? mostly when they went to large pin fire control groups and small pivot pin holes but knowing colt, there was probably some overlap with pivot pin holes, fcg holes and sear blocks. yeah mine has a CS stock. real early sporter lightweights didn't have them and later ones didn't have them either. i have a few with CS stocks so i know there was a period in time where they were used exclusively. as for the slickside upper, i think they ended with the SP1 line. i don't think i've seen a sporter with a slickside. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:52:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
mostly when they went to large pin fire control groups and small pivot pin holes but knowing colt, there was probably some overlap with pivot pin holes, fcg holes and sear blocks. yeah mine has a CS stock. real early sporter lightweights didn't have them and later ones didn't have them either. i have a few with CS stocks so i know there was a period in time where they were used exclusively. as for the slickside upper, i think they ended with the SP1 line. i don't think i've seen a sporter with a slickside. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? mostly when they went to large pin fire control groups and small pivot pin holes but knowing colt, there was probably some overlap with pivot pin holes, fcg holes and sear blocks. yeah mine has a CS stock. real early sporter lightweights didn't have them and later ones didn't have them either. i have a few with CS stocks so i know there was a period in time where they were used exclusively. as for the slickside upper, i think they ended with the SP1 line. i don't think i've seen a sporter with a slickside. Here's one haha of course this is believed to be a prototype rifle but still... They made them! And yes this is a known factory gun. Also notice the one unfinished pin. I have a few rifles with those too. Anybody else? 
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:59:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's one haha of course this is believed to be a prototype rifle but still... They made them! And yes this is a known factory gun. Also notice the one unfinished pin. I have a few rifles with those too. Anybody else? http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/mustangyoung7/Mobile%20Uploads/7E807DB2-B6DA-479D-BF1D-D59D451B215C_zpsjdr1bv1s.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? mostly when they went to large pin fire control groups and small pivot pin holes but knowing colt, there was probably some overlap with pivot pin holes, fcg holes and sear blocks. yeah mine has a CS stock. real early sporter lightweights didn't have them and later ones didn't have them either. i have a few with CS stocks so i know there was a period in time where they were used exclusively. as for the slickside upper, i think they ended with the SP1 line. i don't think i've seen a sporter with a slickside. Here's one haha of course this is believed to be a prototype rifle but still... They made them! And yes this is a known factory gun. Also notice the one unfinished pin. I have a few rifles with those too. Anybody else? http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/mustangyoung7/Mobile%20Uploads/7E807DB2-B6DA-479D-BF1D-D59D451B215C_zpsjdr1bv1s.jpg ah, i wasn't including the 9mm line. i think most were slicksides, hence the C A forged uppers that can still be found. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 10:01:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ah, i wasn't including the 9mm line. i think most were slicksides, hence the C A forged uppers that can still be found. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? mostly when they went to large pin fire control groups and small pivot pin holes but knowing colt, there was probably some overlap with pivot pin holes, fcg holes and sear blocks. yeah mine has a CS stock. real early sporter lightweights didn't have them and later ones didn't have them either. i have a few with CS stocks so i know there was a period in time where they were used exclusively. as for the slickside upper, i think they ended with the SP1 line. i don't think i've seen a sporter with a slickside. Here's one haha of course this is believed to be a prototype rifle but still... They made them! And yes this is a known factory gun. Also notice the one unfinished pin. I have a few rifles with those too. Anybody else? http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/mustangyoung7/Mobile%20Uploads/7E807DB2-B6DA-479D-BF1D-D59D451B215C_zpsjdr1bv1s.jpg ah, i wasn't including the 9mm line. i think most were slicksides, hence the C A forged uppers that can still be found. Well scratch that then. Any idea on the pins? |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 10:07:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well scratch that then. Any idea on the pins? nope, chalk it up to colt being colt and inconsistent w/ the commercial line using what's on hand. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 10:22:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's one haha of course this is believed to be a prototype rifle but still... They made them! And yes this is a known factory gun. Also notice the one unfinished pin. I have a few rifles with those too. Anybody else? http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/mustangyoung7/Mobile%20Uploads/7E807DB2-B6DA-479D-BF1D-D59D451B215C_zpsjdr1bv1s.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? mostly when they went to large pin fire control groups and small pivot pin holes but knowing colt, there was probably some overlap with pivot pin holes, fcg holes and sear blocks. yeah mine has a CS stock. real early sporter lightweights didn't have them and later ones didn't have them either. i have a few with CS stocks so i know there was a period in time where they were used exclusively. as for the slickside upper, i think they ended with the SP1 line. i don't think i've seen a sporter with a slickside. Here's one haha of course this is believed to be a prototype rifle but still... They made them! And yes this is a known factory gun. Also notice the one unfinished pin. I have a few rifles with those too. Anybody else? http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/mustangyoung7/Mobile%20Uploads/7E807DB2-B6DA-479D-BF1D-D59D451B215C_zpsjdr1bv1s.jpg Colt used stainless steel pins in the 9mm line. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 10:24:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Colt used stainless steel pins in the 9mm line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg Thanks for the pictures. Were those done on certain models or randomly throughout? Also I notice you have the CS stock with a forward assist. Did they ever have the CS stock without the forward assist? What years were the CS stock installed and when was the latest slickside upper? mostly when they went to large pin fire control groups and small pivot pin holes but knowing colt, there was probably some overlap with pivot pin holes, fcg holes and sear blocks. yeah mine has a CS stock. real early sporter lightweights didn't have them and later ones didn't have them either. i have a few with CS stocks so i know there was a period in time where they were used exclusively. as for the slickside upper, i think they ended with the SP1 line. i don't think i've seen a sporter with a slickside. Here's one haha of course this is believed to be a prototype rifle but still... They made them! And yes this is a known factory gun. Also notice the one unfinished pin. I have a few rifles with those too. Anybody else? http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/mustangyoung7/Mobile%20Uploads/7E807DB2-B6DA-479D-BF1D-D59D451B215C_zpsjdr1bv1s.jpg Colt used stainless steel pins in the 9mm line. It's only the 1 pin and also I have them on other rifles |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 10:29:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's only the 1 pin and also I have them on other rifles The 9mm is notorious for breaking hammer pins thus the stainless pin. More knowledgeable folks will be along with more info. 
ETA: There is also the Rimfire and Pistol Calibers forum, fourth below retro. Might be a place to ask about any specific questions on the 9mm. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:19:35 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a latter 9mm colt.. The 9mm Bolt is a solid bolt and the block on all 9mm's colts has to be flush with the lower. unlike the rifle caliber ones. in semi auto the standard pins are ok but any SMG 9mm colt needed the stainless hardened pins. Calling colt giving them the serial # and finding out the date of MFG would help.....
BTW has anyone though about colts finical problems and how that would affect Pre ban and Post ban value if we cant get a letter or find out. (im in a free state but always thinking about our guys behind the lines) |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 8:54:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's normal. there's multiple ways they were pinned. it looks unfinished b/c it was milled down so they would use a normal bolt carrier instead of the half circle/half moon carrier. a common mod. never had a sear installed, there is still meat on the side of the wall that would had to be cut back to use a sear. http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_204953.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205004.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20140524_205044.jpg This. BW has you covered |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 8:58:39 AM EDT
[#20]
My Sporter II with C7 style upper has the CS Stock and to my knowledge (Intel Gathering) this was the largest group of SPII's with CS Stocks.
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Posted: 8/27/2015 11:37:57 AM EDT
[#21]
I have a 9mm colt with a CS stock made in 1991 aprox. My gun has had the bolt hold open broken and jammed up the bolt could not get the upper to open had to take it home to open. Remember that the hardened sear block has TWO Blind pins not one,,, and cannot be removed with out damage to lower receiver , Colt did this because ATF at the time was on Colt to do more to prevent modifications to its guns, this was early 90s
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Posted: 8/27/2015 3:47:13 PM EDT
[#22]
No first hand experience but it makes sense to me that Colt would have to use a full size bolt carrier to keep the weight up on a 9mm.
Therefor, the standard sear block had to be milled down. They also had problems with the hammer pins and I can see them putting a stronger one in. Looks correct to me and it is probably exactly as it left the factory. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 5:24:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a latter 9mm colt.. The 9mm Bolt is a solid bolt and the block on all 9mm's colts has to be flush with the lower. unlike the rifle caliber ones. in semi auto the standard pins are ok but any SMG 9mm colt needed the stainless hardened pins. Calling colt giving them the serial # and finding out the date of MFG would help..... BTW has anyone though about colts finical problems and how that would affect Pre ban and Post ban value if we cant get a letter or find out. (im in a free state but always thinking about our guys behind the lines) That explains the milling of the sear block. I wonder if the stainless pins actually aren't slightly softer than the carbon steel pins, allowing them to absorb some of the harshness of the blowback bolt rather than cracking. I don't have any to compare or I could probably take them to work and have them run through the Rockwell hardness tester. |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 9:13:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That explains the milling of the sear block. I wonder if the stainless pins actually aren't slightly softer than the carbon steel pins, allowing them to absorb some of the harshness of the blowback bolt rather than cracking. I don't have any to compare or I could probably take them to work and have them run through the Rockwell hardness tester. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a latter 9mm colt.. The 9mm Bolt is a solid bolt and the block on all 9mm's colts has to be flush with the lower. unlike the rifle caliber ones. in semi auto the standard pins are ok but any SMG 9mm colt needed the stainless hardened pins. Calling colt giving them the serial # and finding out the date of MFG would help..... BTW has anyone though about colts finical problems and how that would affect Pre ban and Post ban value if we cant get a letter or find out. (im in a free state but always thinking about our guys behind the lines) That explains the milling of the sear block. I wonder if the stainless pins actually aren't slightly softer than the carbon steel pins, allowing them to absorb some of the harshness of the blowback bolt rather than cracking. I don't have any to compare or I could probably take them to work and have them run through the Rockwell hardness tester. Do you need pins to test ? I might have a extra set. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 2:29:04 AM EDT
[#25]
here's a sporter w/ a stainless hammer pin
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Posted: 8/28/2015 6:24:44 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if the stainless pins actually aren't slightly softer than the carbon steel pins, allowing them to absorb some of the harshness of the blowback bolt rather than cracking. I don't have any to compare or I could probably take them to work and have them run through the Rockwell hardness tester. I would love to know the answer to this question. Please post here in the Retro Forum if you are able to Rockwell test both pin types. |
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