Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Site Notices
Posted: 7/24/2015 12:43:32 AM EDT
Was lucky enough to locate this full round second gen forwards assist for my Colt C7, however... with the A2 profile lower it binds up on the buffer engagement area. Now I see why they have the flat spot in some of the assists I have seen.

Went to work , re-profiled it, blasted it in my new cabinet, and reparkerized it correct colt gray... re install. Impressed how well this ole C7 has come together

Before:



After
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 2:26:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Deleted.
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 7:13:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 10:23:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Was lucky enough to locate this full round second gen forwards assist for my Colt C7, however... with the A2 profile lower it binds up on the buffer engagement area. Now I see why they have the flat spot in some of the assists I have seen.

Went to work , re-profiled it, blasted it in my new cabinet, and reparkerized it correct colt gray... re install. Impressed how well this ole C7 has come together

Before:
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/1800317_722337467870153_4013658789151304264_n.jpg?oh=7d272fd6ee121ce06cd4c0c1b85e00f4&oe=5654C964


After
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11754804_722250171212216_7084538840821535009_o.jpg
View Quote


How much did you end up taking off, and did you eyeball it?

William
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 6:58:15 PM EDT
[#4]
You inspired me to do something with these I've had sitting in my parts box for years.   They came with spring and pawl, but are missing the detent and detent spring.  



Link Posted: 7/24/2015 10:47:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Well every one of us has done a hind site decision so I don't frown on little things like that. I worked for a engineering communications company that designed stuff for Special Forces and Fire Fighting. We were always coming up with better ideas after the fact. It did help that I was a Volunteer Fire Fighter for a while and I knew the rigors of service, It was a great seaway into the SF locations I visited to understand how they were using the products they had asked us to design for them. Sometimes first hand observation answers more questions that you raise.

As for how much did I take off, enough to clear the lower and eyeballing other peopls posts to see where the profiled one had ben taken too. It works great and is more correct for my C7 so I dig it. Besides gave me an excuse to parkerize something again.

and lastly WOW a bunch of large heads sitting in a drawr!? These are kinda scarce these days, mine cost me 15 bucks! I think your sitting on a little gold mine there!

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The full round FA was a subjective cost-saving decision made after-the-fact and after all the A2 testing we did had been completed.
Obviously we were in error here and the several thousand that had been installed replaced.
Funny, we made the increased diameter/strength lower receiver (buffer tube area) decision at the same meeting but never though about the two being incompatible.
Then later, the Army at Rock Island made the next cost-saving POS decision and made the plunger head too small.
View Quote

Link Posted: 7/25/2015 12:54:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The full round FA was a subjective cost-saving decision made after-the-fact and after all the A2 testing we did had been completed.
Obviously we were in error here and the several thousand that had been installed replaced.
Funny, we made the increased diameter/strength lower receiver (buffer tube area) decision at the same meeting but never though about the two being incompatible.
Then later, the Army at Rock Island made the next cost-saving POS decision and made the plunger head too small.
View Quote


All right Sir, you've stepped in it now. I have two questions - IMO the early unmodified large head FAs are rare - so I'm thinking it might not be a good idea to modify them, although I'm sure many were, although I'm not sure at what level that would be in the Marine Corp structure. I'm guessing as low as Company, but not sure how Gunnys are distributed in your system. Some clarity here would be appreciated.

The second question is, How essential do you consider the forward assist, and how do you feel about its potential for misuse? (SPORTS specifically.)  I'm sure you're aware of the much quoted line stating Seal Team Two's opinion that forward assists were unnecessary. I'm definitely not a believer in them myself, and am a 'heavy lube' convert myself - would love to hear your views on this.
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 7:19:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 11:16:07 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
IMO the early unmodified large head FAs are rare - so I'm thinking it might not be a good idea to modify them
View Quote


Are you saying there is an early & a later large full round FA or just that the full round is rarer than the D shaped ones?
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 12:03:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks for all the insight and legacy information Cold, LOVE hearing the evolution of this weapon...even the bad stuff.
Cheers!
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 3:20:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Are you saying there is an early & a later large full round FA or just that the full round is rarer than the D shaped ones?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
IMO the early unmodified large head FAs are rare - so I'm thinking it might not be a good idea to modify them


Are you saying there is an early & a later large full round FA or just that the full round is rarer than the D shaped ones?


Well, as coldblue mentioned, they made later large heads with a flat side (D-shaped ones) to clear the reinforcement boss... personally I think both are pretty rare, but the full-round more so I think. So, yeah, that's what I meant.
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well, as coldblue mentioned, they made later large heads with a flat side (D-shaped ones) to clear the reinforcement boss... personally I think both are pretty rare, but the full-round more so I think. So, yeah, that's what I meant.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IMO the early unmodified large head FAs are rare - so I'm thinking it might not be a good idea to modify them


Are you saying there is an early & a later large full round FA or just that the full round is rarer than the D shaped ones?


Well, as coldblue mentioned, they made later large heads with a flat side (D-shaped ones) to clear the reinforcement boss... personally I think both are pretty rare, but the full-round more so I think. So, yeah, that's what I meant.


Okay, wasn't sure if you meant there was a early full round & a later full round before the D shaped ones. I knew about the D shaped ones. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 7:04:02 PM EDT
[#12]
It looks like I better keep my big head FA's in the safe!
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 10:52:33 PM EDT
[#13]
coldblue, i had a few unmodified ones but there seemed to be some variations in them.  were these made commercially as well?



https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=612366
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 2:41:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
coldblue, i had a few unmodified ones but there seemed to be some variations in them.  were these made commercially as well?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k517/s0b3/20130508_224906.jpg

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=612366
View Quote


Wow. I've seen two variants, had no idea. This has been a very interesting thread. Can't wait to hear what coldblue has to say about these.
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 7:17:17 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 10:57:38 AM EDT
[#16]
The 2 D shaped ones I have, which I acquired in the mid 80's, look like the far left one in boywonder777's picture. YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 2:00:56 PM EDT
[#17]
And then this one came on an A1 receiver/barrel with shiny A2 handguards  

Link Posted: 7/26/2015 2:58:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And then this one came on an A1 receiver/barrel with shiny A2 handguards  

http://newphillysports.com/milsurp/funkyFA.jpg
View Quote


Both the full round forward assists I have came on "LM" forge marked Martin Marietta A1 uppers. They are supposedly replacement uppers circa 1982. One of those is the domed type, indicating Elisco manufacture from around 1983.
Looks like the armorer that modified this example got the wrong side first...
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 3:26:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Both the full round forward assists I have came on "LM" forge marked Martin Marietta A1 uppers. They are supposedly replacement uppers circa 1982. One of those is the domed type, indicating Elisco manufacture from around 1983.
Looks like the armorer that modified this example got the wrong side first...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
And then this one came on an A1 receiver/barrel with shiny A2 handguards  

http://newphillysports.com/milsurp/funkyFA.jpg


Both the full round forward assists I have came on "LM" forge marked Martin Marietta A1 uppers. They are supposedly replacement uppers circa 1982. One of those is the domed type, indicating Elisco manufacture from around 1983.
Looks like the armorer that modified this example got the wrong side first...


Same here. I've had two, both on LM uppers. Interesting.
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 3:38:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Not sure but all the large round ones I've seen on USGI rifles had the knob attached to the pawl by roll pin.  They seem to be harder to find than the more common press fit.

I actually have a large round FA that is uncut and fits on an A2 lower fine without any rubbing.  It's close, but doesn't interfere.
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 7:56:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not sure but all the large round ones I've seen on USGI rifles had the knob attached to the pawl by roll pin.  They seem to be harder to find than the more common press fit.

I actually have a large round FA that is uncut and fits on an A2 lower fine without any rubbing.  It's close, but doesn't interfere.
View Quote


The two that I have (both came on very early Colt M16A2 upper receivers BTW) are indeed attached to the pawl with roll pins also.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:49:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The 2 D shaped ones I have, which I acquired in the mid 80's, look like the far left one in boywonder777's picture. YMMV.
View Quote



I have 6 Bighead FA's and the ones I know came off Military uppers look like the ones to the far left as well. The other 2 look like the one with the spot in the very center. Now I'm all sorts of intrigued, I see what looks like 5 different types there.
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 2:37:23 AM EDT
[#23]
I've two from a Colt employee I've had over 20 years that are like the center in Lionel's pic without the pin.  Figured he ripped them from Colt like everything else he had but can only confirm who they came from.  Wouldn't call it intriguing simply not a better idea.  As posted above they made two improvements in the same house at the same time that were obviously in conflict with each other.  Good ideas,  just not together.  Elisco comes to mind for another mfg but guessing the others are from subs.  Don't know much about the Korean AR clones but that almost makes sense.

I'm going to cut one and use it in the next couple of days to fill the hole in an upper.  Not like anyone ever accomplished much using a FA except to make a bad problem worse.  I've had to break out a block of wood and hammer to unjam more than one customer's weapon or on the range over the years.  You can usually tell by the look on their face  that they have a live round jammed up in their rifle.  Same story generally.  Rode the charging handle,  jammed the round,  then proceeded to really jam it up with the FA and no one was shooting at them..
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 7:05:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 7:34:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Albeit, left-handed like me, but here is an alternative use of the FA recess....
<a href="http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/D_A_Lutz/media/eyelet%20assy_zpst8khrhru.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q759/D_A_Lutz/eyelet%20assy_zpst8khrhru.jpg</a>
View Quote


I'm a lefty as well and that is quite ingenius.... Can you describe how you made that single point attachment? I assume it's held in place by the rollpin?
Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top