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Posted: 5/26/2015 7:34:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Hi! I'm looking to buy front and rear sight tools for my retro build and need some information. Did the military even issue any or were they stuck using the .223 bullet tip? THanks for the help!!! When I was first introduced to the M16A1 back in 1978, there was never a mention of a sight adjustment tool. Additionally, there was never one issued with the weapon to my knowledge. I never saw a sight adjustment tool until about 11 years ago and it is used on the A1 and A2 sight posts. Even when I was shooting M16s up until 2002, we always used the tip of a round of M193 ammo. You always had ammo, so it was the easiest and most available thing to use. Even the old M16 comic book shows using the tip of a round of M193 ammo to take down the bolt. It is a very useful tool in many ways. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 8:22:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was first introduced to the M16A1 back in 1978, there was never a mention of a sight adjustment tool. Additionally, there was never one issued with the weapon to my knowledge. I never saw a sight adjustment tool until about 11 years ago and it is used on the A1 and A2 sight posts. Even when I was shooting M16s up until 2002, we always used the tip of a round of M193 ammo. You always had ammo, so it was the easiest and most available thing to use. Even the old M16 comic book shows using the tip of a round of M193 ammo to take down the bolt. It is a very useful tool in many ways. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hi! I'm looking to buy front and rear sight tools for my retro build and need some information. Did the military even issue any or were they stuck using the .223 bullet tip? THanks for the help!!! When I was first introduced to the M16A1 back in 1978, there was never a mention of a sight adjustment tool. Additionally, there was never one issued with the weapon to my knowledge. I never saw a sight adjustment tool until about 11 years ago and it is used on the A1 and A2 sight posts. Even when I was shooting M16s up until 2002, we always used the tip of a round of M193 ammo. You always had ammo, so it was the easiest and most available thing to use. Even the old M16 comic book shows using the tip of a round of M193 ammo to take down the bolt. It is a very useful tool in many ways. Yup. There might have been an armorer's tool, maybe, certainly I never saw one if there was, but being as how an actual armorer [as in and actual small arms repairman, not some dude who ran the arms room] was not something the average troop encountered at the company level, the average troop used the pointy end of a cartridge. I do remember a marksmanship instructor making note that "you could use a nail" if you had one, but that was hardly an official policy or an item of issue. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 8:55:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. There might have been an armorer's tool, maybe, certainly I never saw one if there was, but being as how an actual armorer [as in and actual small arms repairman, not some dude who ran the arms room] was not something the average troop encountered at the company level, the average troop used the pointy end of a cartridge. I do remember a marksmanship instructor making note that "you could use a nail" if you had one, but that was hardly an official policy or an item of issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hi! I'm looking to buy front and rear sight tools for my retro build and need some information. Did the military even issue any or were they stuck using the .223 bullet tip? THanks for the help!!! When I was first introduced to the M16A1 back in 1978, there was never a mention of a sight adjustment tool. Additionally, there was never one issued with the weapon to my knowledge. I never saw a sight adjustment tool until about 11 years ago and it is used on the A1 and A2 sight posts. Even when I was shooting M16s up until 2002, we always used the tip of a round of M193 ammo. You always had ammo, so it was the easiest and most available thing to use. Even the old M16 comic book shows using the tip of a round of M193 ammo to take down the bolt. It is a very useful tool in many ways. Yup. There might have been an armorer's tool, maybe, certainly I never saw one if there was, but being as how an actual armorer [as in and actual small arms repairman, not some dude who ran the arms room] was not something the average troop encountered at the company level, the average troop used the pointy end of a cartridge. I do remember a marksmanship instructor making note that "you could use a nail" if you had one, but that was hardly an official policy or an item of issue. We were told the same thing in boot camp. The fact of the matter is, we never had any reason to carry a nail when we had ammo. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:27:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We were told the same thing in boot camp. The fact of the matter is, we never had any reason to carry a nail when we had ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hi! I'm looking to buy front and rear sight tools for my retro build and need some information. Did the military even issue any or were they stuck using the .223 bullet tip? THanks for the help!!! When I was first introduced to the M16A1 back in 1978, there was never a mention of a sight adjustment tool. Additionally, there was never one issued with the weapon to my knowledge. I never saw a sight adjustment tool until about 11 years ago and it is used on the A1 and A2 sight posts. Even when I was shooting M16s up until 2002, we always used the tip of a round of M193 ammo. You always had ammo, so it was the easiest and most available thing to use. Even the old M16 comic book shows using the tip of a round of M193 ammo to take down the bolt. It is a very useful tool in many ways. Yup. There might have been an armorer's tool, maybe, certainly I never saw one if there was, but being as how an actual armorer [as in and actual small arms repairman, not some dude who ran the arms room] was not something the average troop encountered at the company level, the average troop used the pointy end of a cartridge. I do remember a marksmanship instructor making note that "you could use a nail" if you had one, but that was hardly an official policy or an item of issue. We were told the same thing in boot camp. The fact of the matter is, we never had any reason to carry a nail when we had ammo. And a nail would do you no good for a rifle without ammo 
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Posted: 5/26/2015 11:18:41 AM EDT
[#5]
I popped the primer out of a round that got dented, drilled a hole though it, emptied out the powder and put it on my key chain. Now I always know where my sight tool is.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 11:43:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Actually there is a front and rear sight tool...it's in the back of the TM under special/fabricated tools.
We had one beat up one in my armory that no one knew what it was for...I showed them in the TM what it was then photocopied the page and filled out a work request and took them over to the machine shop. One week later I had 5 new made front sight tools... |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 12:04:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually there is a front and rear sight tool...it's in the back of the TM under special/fabricated tools. We had one beat up one in my armory that no one knew what it was for...I showed them in the TM what it was then photocopied the page and filled out a work request and took them over to the machine shop. One week later I had 5 new made front sight tools... Which TM? When was it published and by whom? |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 1:03:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Here is the Army version..M16 https://app.box.com/shared/9qm9l5oplv M16A2/M4 http://www.ar15.com/content/webPDF/TM9-1005-319-23.pdf
...we used the USMC version here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20VYXOOQPQ0ZjM5ZGY5MWQtMjQ0Yy00YzU2LWFhODctYzEyM2QyNGNiYTJk/edit All have the front sight tool in them...the USMC has a USMC only lower rec test gage for the front pivot holes...I need to see if mine is still in my tool box downstairs. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 4:36:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And a nail would do you no good for a rifle without ammo
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hi! I'm looking to buy front and rear sight tools for my retro build and need some information. Did the military even issue any or were they stuck using the .223 bullet tip? THanks for the help!!! When I was first introduced to the M16A1 back in 1978, there was never a mention of a sight adjustment tool. Additionally, there was never one issued with the weapon to my knowledge. I never saw a sight adjustment tool until about 11 years ago and it is used on the A1 and A2 sight posts. Even when I was shooting M16s up until 2002, we always used the tip of a round of M193 ammo. You always had ammo, so it was the easiest and most available thing to use. Even the old M16 comic book shows using the tip of a round of M193 ammo to take down the bolt. It is a very useful tool in many ways. Yup. There might have been an armorer's tool, maybe, certainly I never saw one if there was, but being as how an actual armorer [as in and actual small arms repairman, not some dude who ran the arms room] was not something the average troop encountered at the company level, the average troop used the pointy end of a cartridge. I do remember a marksmanship instructor making note that "you could use a nail" if you had one, but that was hardly an official policy or an item of issue. We were told the same thing in boot camp. The fact of the matter is, we never had any reason to carry a nail when we had ammo. And a nail would do you no good for a rifle without ammo
To belabor the obvious. There's a right way, and a wrong way, and the army way, of doing things. If the army had wanted us to have wives nails, the army would have issued us one. The army taught us to use the pointy end of the cartridge, not the blunt end, so that is what, and how, we used it. But, inasmuch as the aforementioned instructor did not teach us which end of a nail to use, had we ever been issued one, which in fact we were not, we would have been clueless about how to use one, being dumbass grunts and all. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 4:50:37 PM EDT
[#10]
IN basic in 1974 the training instructors both had front sight adjustments tools on strings carried around there necks and would adjust your front sight if needed when we were qualifying. There is a colt tool for the front and rear sight. at least the USAF had them for our 602 and 604 m16 rifles.....
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Posted: 5/26/2015 5:35:02 PM EDT
[#11]
When I went through USMC Recruit Depot Parris Island in 1978, they only issued the recruits nails with strings for dope adjustments so you won't loose them. Out in the FMF you used a cartridge tip for your adjusting tool until I was discharged in 82. To this day I think the current adjusting tool is a waste of money unless you have no ammo. Then, no ammo, no dope adjustment. Like the old saying goes, "No money no honey." Just my worthless 2 cents.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 7:57:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I went through USMC Recruit Depot Parris Island in 1978, they only issued the recruits nails with strings for dope adjustments so you won't loose them. Out in the FMF you used a cartridge tip for your adjusting tool until I was discharged in 82. To this day I think the current adjusting tool is a waste of money unless you have no ammo. Then, no ammo, no dope adjustment. Like the old saying goes, "No money no honey." Just my worthless 2 cents. I went through there from June to Aug. 1978. We never had a nail. We just used a M193 round. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 10:12:34 AM EDT
[#13]
ok this might be off topic, and not trying to high jack the post..
but while we are typing about sight adjustments, i was putting together a A1 upper last night. the barrel i had was missing the front sight post. i had some other loose FSB's with posts in them and just took one out from the extra FSB. i should have counted the number of clicks out but i didn't. . here's my question... just how many turns or clicks up from bottom will get me on paper. i put the post in without the detent to see how many turns it took to bottom it out. (which was aprox 9 1/2 turns) and just split the difference . it looked to deep in the FSB so i went another 2 turns up... not having a lower mounted on it made just "just eyeballing" it useless . i just want to get it on paper i can adjust everything else from there.. thanks Pete |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 10:35:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ok this might be off topic, and not trying to high jack the post.. but while we are typing about sight adjustments, i was putting together a A1 upper last night. the barrel i had was missing the front sight post. i had some other loose FSB's with posts in them and just took one out from the extra FSB. i should have counted the number of clicks out but i didn't. . here's my question... just how many turns or clicks up from bottom will get me on paper. i put the post in without the detent to see how many turns it took to bottom it out. (which was aprox 9 1/2 turns) and just split the difference . it looked to deep in the FSB so i went another 2 turns up... not having a lower mounted on it made just "just eyeballing" it useless . i just want to get it on paper i can adjust everything else from there.. thanks Pete |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 10:39:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok this might be off topic, and not trying to high jack the post.. but while we are typing about sight adjustments, i was putting together a A1 upper last night. the barrel i had was missing the front sight post. i had some other loose FSB's with posts in them and just took one out from the extra FSB. i should have counted the number of clicks out but i didn't. . here's my question... just how many turns or clicks up from bottom will get me on paper. i put the post in without the detent to see how many turns it took to bottom it out. (which was aprox 9 1/2 turns) and just split the difference . it looked to deep in the FSB so i went another 2 turns up... not having a lower mounted on it made just "just eyeballing" it useless . i just want to get it on paper i can adjust everything else from there.. thanks Pete On paper at what range? Starting at 25 yds you are going to be on paper using your method most likely.If you don't have a laser bore sighter you can try to use your eyeball bore sighter. I have clamped an upper in a vise, or clamped it to a table, made an X on a wall with tape. In a well lit room, bore sight the upper on the tape center mark, and then adjust the front site post to the center mark. Its a start for 25 yards. Here is a somewhat correct sight tool. I don't like using a bullet tip as it slips and scratches a lot. So can the tool if you're not careful. http://www.deltateamtactical.com/AR15M16-A1-Front-Sight-Tool-5-Prong_p_3838.html 
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Posted: 5/27/2015 2:54:58 PM EDT
[#16]
I also had front sight adjustment tools made using the specs in the back of the manual. I used a bunch during my days as a range NCO as it greatly sped up zeroing at the range. The ones for A1 sights won't fit over the A2 square front sight post.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 12:32:50 AM EDT
[#17]
thanks for the info.
yea i just need to get it on paper at 25 yrds and i'll work it from there. the bore sighting trick sounds like a good start. my gun room is 20 feet long.. from my work bench to the far wall about 15 feet. that should work well enough to get on paper at 25 yrds.. i'll clamp the upper in my cleaning stand vice and mark the wall with tape like you suggested... thanks again and sorry if i got the thread off tract.. Pete |
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