I want to see what an A1 upper would look like on an SCR!

That would be cool but what do we do for the front site?

Like an upper with a 20" pencil barrel, 3-prong, and triangle handguards? Or are you talking about an entire standard A1 upper? If the latter, the carrying-handle sights would be way too high; again, you'd be getting chinweld rather than cheekweld.

But some sort of "A1-but-flattop" receiver would work well. As an example, here an SCR build that's kinda A2-ish in accoutrements, while still a flattop:

I was thinking standard non F FSB, and some type of riser on the stock to get a cheekweld. EEven if it wasnt useable, I still just want to see what it would look like lol

I really dig the A4 look with Scope.

A little something like this maybe?

Now it just needs a 6" strap-on cheek-rest to get your face high enough to use the sights.

Yes, it's an AR variant, but (horror of horrors!) you can actually put your sights barely above the bore. It's practically indecent. I may faint from scandal.

That looks like the offspring of a M16A1 and Remington 870.

... that's pretty much what the SCR is, it's an AR-15 lower which is reshaped to 870 contours. It even has the crossbolt safety, and takes essentially an 870/1100 stock modified for the recoil rat-tail.

Interestingly enough, the SCR lower is kinda "slabsided", with just the stepdown left of the mag button, and a partial fence at the right end:





It's tricky to retro-ify this as much as I'd like, because the receiver really has to be flat-top on these to get any proper cheekweld, and it's hard to figure out which flat-top uppers can be made to look at least decently retro.

Yep, like that with a riser on the stock for cheekweld. Could work

Sure, you could raise the sights four inches above the receiver, and then add a 4" stock riser... ooooooooor you could just put the sights/optic right on top of the receiver.

A carrying handle upper makes for an amusing photoshop, but it's not remotely practical on a rifle with that sort of stock.

I'm sorry, I don't remember talking to you, or saying it had to be useable. If your reading comprehension didn't suck ass, you would've seen my motivation, which was seeing what it looked like. Not building it to be as useful as possible.

What Side Charging Upper Receiver is that?  It does look nice on that lower half.

Deleted

I agree with you, but there's no reason to get upset at someone posting their opinion. That's not what this place is about - remember?  

Per the owner's FB post to Ares: Ares SCR lower, Gibbz Arms upper and hand guard, BCM barrel, bolt and misc. parts.

Gibbz seems the most common so far. My understanding is that all three side-chargers come from the same origin, and initially Gibbz (and I believe others) didn't quite fit the Ares lower because they lacked some cutout that's normally used for full-auto parts, but Ares uses for extra action space or something. This was brought to Gibbz's attention and now their current models have the cut, but if you buy an older one off the shelf you risk running across one lacking the cutout.

Over in the "SCR Pics" thread there's more detailed discussion on how folks are talking to other folks who produce side-chargers off the same design to make sure they make the mod as well, so I'd definitely check that before buying, and ensure you buy one produced with the right cutouts.

Speaking of side-chargers, on the pic with the old A2 handguards and FSB, at first I thought his cantilevered scope was unnecessarily high just because it's made for a normal AR, but on second look, he might also have put it up that high so it doesn't get in the way of his gripping the charging handle. Another good reason to look at a side-charger on these to avoid that space-crunch.

I have to say, that if used with an A1 upper, I think a carbine would look better, perhaps ala LaFrance - M16K? I also think a 'youth length' stock would be a natural.

Very cool, what does the scr run, cost wise?

would I be a total dbag if I wanted one to SBR, with a 10.3in barrel?

No. I want one setup as a DMR with 18" barrel, Harris Bipod, Clark Carbon Fiber FF Tube, Monte Carlo Stock, and a 3x9  Variable Optic.

Anything but - with a free-float handguard & wood buttstock, you'd actually be closer to the Retro-Futuristic Submachinegun look.

I'll post this again -

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/submachine-guns/beretta-m1938-family/

From earlier in the thread, Midwest has the lowers - @ $500
http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/ctgy/ares-defense-rifles

Funny you mention; it was this pic of an SBRed version at Shot Show that first got me thinking that this design isn't just a compromise, but an interesting variant in its own right. This looks awfully compact and handy, even though afaik that's the full-length stock:




I hadn't thought about the La France, but imagine the SCR lower with the La France upper, but shave off the carry handle and put low hooded sights at the front and back of the receiver:



With the Short Sporter stock, if you really wanted to you could shave two inches or so off the stock (see photo here), since it still has to accommodate the tube that holds the BCG's rat-tail return lever. You might be able to take a little more off still if you monkey around with stuff like putting a shorter or telescoping nut at the end of the tube. So while it can't be cut down to nothing, I think you can get the SCR stock about as short as a fixed "Entry" A2 stock. And it'd be actually more streamlines than the LaFrance since there's no carry handle sticking up or pistol grip sticking down. It'd have slightly slower mag changes than a M16K since the mag button is further forward, but it might literally be better for the M16K's mission (compact rifle for responding to ambushes from within a vehicle) than the M16K was, with less protruding bits to bump into anything.

The original La France had a barrel a little under 8.5" (not sure if that's counting muzzle device), and has this patented doubling-back gas-tube to function that short. I was thinking that with this notional "SCR-K" build, maybe a piston would be a good workaround. Because the SCR has a proprietary BCG (though standard bolt), not all kits necessarily just drop in, but Ares now offers a version of its GXR piston kit that drops into the SCR. However, the GXR requires 10" of barrel length, so it'd be slightly longer than the M16K there to get proper operation. Not that precise emulation has anything to do with this sort of fun idea project.


I have no PhotoShop skills, but if any of the cleverer folks want to illustrate the above, I certainly would fine it interesting to look at.



EDIT: I warned you, here's my horrible and clumsy attempt :

EDIT2: Actually it's kind of hard to make it look as small as this build would be, because shortening everything throws the scale off, so to the eye it just looks taller vertically when instead its the same height but shorter horizontally. I'll repost the earlier M16A1 SCR below it for scale.

I can't draw hooded sights so I left some stubs of the handle since they look hood-like.

How a bout a 656 type upper for your SCR? Not that you're going to have one laying around. Well, there's one or two among us who do .

I had to go google up with a Colt 656 was to remind myself.

Oh snap, somebody get NODAK Spud on the phone, stat:




Though if we're wishing for unicorns, a side-charging 656 upper would be the ideal for an SCR.

For reals though, is there just not enough retro market for anyone to make a 656 upper? Then again, you'd really think there'd be enough market for someone to do a professional run of 607 repro stocks, but those are still hens' teeth.


EDIT: though I suppose one weird/niche option would be a 656-like sight and rail-ladder combo that latches onto the picatinny rail on top of a regular receiver, and makes it look reasonably like a 656 and covers up the rest of the rails. I don't entirely know who would want that, but I like the idea.

Enabler. Actually, that's a great point - I forgot about your front sights!

That top pic is exactly what I'd like to build. Very nice! I love Remington 760s and 870s and the safety is something I'm used to. This is a no-brainer for me. Now I just need to find some money to build it. First though, I need dental work and to get the graphics done on the truck to support the book.

Browse and drool HERE- http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm

Looks like the NDS-23 might actually be a better choice. Mike?

That is for a Bull Barrel though .920, but how cool would it look with the NDS-37 and NDS-44 on a light weight barrel....... Just have to figure out how to mount the NDS-37.

That handguard reminds me of an FAL.

By "top pic" you mean the Shot Show one with the SCR with modern railed handguards, or the photoshop of the "SCR-K"? I'm assuming the former, but you never know.


Re the really micro 5.56mm rifles mean for executive protection, vehicle use, etc. it's really a shame that there's a great design that's almost as small as you can really imagine making a semi-auto .223, but it's not an option due to who makes it:




There are differences of opinion as to whether Kel-Tec makes ok fun range guns, and/or ok CCW last-ditch guns, but I can't imagine anyone who's getting paid to carry a rifle around is going to choose an option made by Kel-Tec. Neat design though, the only smaller 5.56mm I can think of is the Bushmaster Arm Pistol, which was not particularly practical:

Something like this?

http://shop.hahn-precision.com/BUIS-Rear-ASAB0506.htm

http://shop.hahn-precision.com/BUIS-Riser-APRB0406.htm

http://shop.hahn-precision.com/BUIS-Scout-Rail-ASRB1205.htm

May need a short standard AR rear sight though.

Here's a takedown ARES MPR concept rifle for your viewing pleasure. This rifle is light and handy with 10.5" barrel and is perfect for backpacking, etc. kind of like a modern day "Mare's Leg". We're getting some neat ideas from owners and contributors here and appreciate your interest in the ARES SCR platform.

Great thread, keep it going!

You know what that guns needs?  A forend that "looks" like one of the older 90s/early 2000s Remington 870 Express fore ends but set up for the SCR.    As such:
'
A lot of folks want to Tacticool them out...and to each their own....BUT.....I think one that really rested on pure, sporting, rifle rack laurels would be uber mega sweet.  The MOE fore end is nice....but it still unbalances the pure look this gun could achieve.  Even the M16 forends just don't look quite right.  BUT...a forend that matches your Monte Carlo would be hella, mega, supah pretty.
When I first heard of these guns, my first thought was, "Oh, tap dancing Jesus!  REALLLY?!?!?!"
Then I saw one....and its purpose was very clear.  I seriously like it.....and if it was a pure sporter?  I'd love the hell out of it!!!!





 

 

I wouldn't call it getting upset, I'd call it returning the favor.

I agree with the spud though. I think M1 carbine type sights would be a viable option.

Perhaps a butt stock made for one of the 870/1100/11-87 shotguns with the taller "monte carlo style" stock designed for optics would help with iron sight selection.



Edited to add, granted the taller monte carlo doesn't look as good and I bet doesn't handle quite as well.  I went thru a lot of shotguns back in my tube-shooter days and nothing ever fit me better or handled as well as the generic Remington 870/1100/11-87/11-48 shotguns.  Even had a couple 742 rifles, which are the same basic layout.  Remington got that design right to fit most of us.

An SCR that took after this shotgun would be SWEEEEEET!!!!



 

What front sight is this?

Those are our new factory iron sights for the ARES SCR and ARES MPR rifles. They're windage adjustable on rear and elevation adjustable on front. Front clamps around low profile gas block and includes front sling swivel; rear fits to MIL-STD 1913 receiver rail with a single screw. Simple to install and no gunsmithing required.

You Ares guys must have some interesting spare parts sitting around the shop; any chance you can throw together some parts to show us what a Retro SCR would look like?

Ok, dug around a bit and here's a stab at a retro ARES SCR, albeit somewhat dark images...left side



And right side.

You know - I kinda like it!

I think something with less of a beavertail would actually flow much better and dump the delta ring too...maybe like the Cuba-Sudanese style AR10 handguard.

I want to see what John Thomas (Retro Arms Works for the non Retro crowd) can do with one of these

I dunno, Morg. Its kinda neat. But the triangular handguards without the triangular front sight base just lacks your feng shui there.

I do want to see Mr Thomas' interpretation.

I want to see wood stock, wood handguards, and a U notch sight mounted to the front of the receiver.

Want a ramped barrel with that ?

I actually have had a similar build planned for years, but with an end cap ala LaFrance, with the gas port under the HGs Dissy style perhaps with an unusual muzzle treatment. (16"barrel - maybe with XM177 FH?) With a flat top upper, and another mod to the stock I have planned, it'll be pretty spacy looking. Frankly I think that rifle would look better with wood 870 furniture and a wood AR15 HG set from Ironwood.