At the risk of offending the purists, I'm finding this a fun topic to ponder. The Ares SCR is a AR-related lower receiver set up to work with a traditional (non-PG) stock, basically to the AR what the Saiga is to the AK. Compatible with most all AR uppers, uses a FAL-style rat-rail spring slanting down into the stock rather than a buffer. If you kinda squint, it vaguely resembles a number of earlier semi-autos, particularly the BAR and the MAS-49, and vaguely-vaguely the Winchester Light Automatic Rifle which was the experimental design which led to the 5.56 NATO round.

The stock full rifle I find clunky since it's got carbine gas with the short handguard, and the cheezy Magpul handguard; the company quickly changed their policy and started selling the lower separately after tons of AR fans insisted they'd buy the lower but not the full rifle. But overall I like the idea since it'd allow me to have an almost-AR in Washington DC, or even if I move up to NYC. Setting aside politics though since this is a build, "alternate history" question. There have been some cool pics of builds posted, and we have a thread full of them elsewhere on this forum, and this one in particular got me thinking about its pseudo-retro possibilities.



Clearly that build wasn't meant as retro, just the wood stock and some of the lines vaguely resemble it. But what if one wanted to make on of these look pseudo-retro? Almost like a notional "missing link" between rifles like the FN-49, MAS-49, and M14, and the M16? Kind of a "pre-Stoner" AR, paradoxical as that is. If anyone has any suggestions for accessories or aesthetic tweaks that would make this rifle look more retro, I'd be curious to hear it, and that might end up having a bearing on my eventual build onto an SCR lower.

Thanks for any ideas, and humoring me on this not-very-scholarly pondering.

I got nothin' other than so say it sounds like kind of a fun project and can't wait to see what you come up with.

I'd love to do an all wood stock version. Think it would be fun.

Is that an 870  20 or 12 ga stock?  How would you get the recoil spring to fit in it?

Don't quote me on this, but my understanding from what the Ares rep said in the other thread is that an 870 or 1100 stock (12ga frame?) fits the linkage, but you need to modify either of those with a channel/tube that accepts the rat-tail.

Here's what the BCG and recoil spring look like:



The bolt carrier is proprietary, but the bolt head is standard AR

1. Ditch the railed forearms, WECSOG a NoDak Spud AR10 handguard to fit.
NDS-43, $41 shipped
http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

2. Brown plastic forearm, black plastic buttstock? Not a problem - send both the John Thomas and have him make them look like brown bakelite
http://retroarmsworks.com/home/about


3. Exempli gratia, Veltro posted these (from http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=600703 )

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff481/velocewhippet/Faux%20Bakelite/DSC_0005_zps9e39ebef.jpg

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff481/velocewhippet/Faux%20Bakelite/DSC_0008_zps0abfb5e3.jpg

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff481/velocewhippet/Faux%20Bakelite/DSC_0009_zps4f9fd6b3.jpg


Imagination Fuel

For a wood buttstock build, this is a longshot but maybe the Israeli handguards can be modified to fit.
http://northridgeinc.com/store/index.cfm/c157/i993

I'm definitely looking forward to the "new" DIY retro stock options.  I have the SCR and I love it.  Just got mine back from Ares, they did some trigger work which did wonders on the creep and pull weight, it is very comparable to the Colt stock weight.

Im going to fish around for an 1100 stock, guys keep this coming!  This is a really cool set up.

Like the idea of a non-rail frontend. The NDS (Armalite actually) brown HGs would do it for retro looks. But how is that front end assembled? Bet it is not a slipring and spring setup.

No idea, thats why I said WECSOG (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wecsog ) might be in order. Are the ARES folks around to give some input?

Also, WRT folding front and rear sights adding to the post-WWII backstory the Ordnance Corps and associated designers were ripping off Nazi styles left and right. Who makes folding sights that look like this?

I like this a lot. I've wanted one of those since I saw the prototype pics years ago. Gotta get one to take with me when I go back to see my folks in NY state. Personally, I prefer conventional stocks over pistol grips for the most part. Not sure why - just an old soul I guess. Oh - and yeah, the FG-42 rocks!

The Ares rep is in the pic thread I linked in my OP. He drops in pretty frequently to answer questions, and has cleared up a lot of minor ones that people have bandied about various forums ever since last year. He also clarified that Ares is now producing iron sights for this rifle (since basically all AR-15 sights sit too high for this trad stock). There's a set with a front sight that mounts on the low-profile gasblock, and in the next week or so they'll also release a front sight that sits on a rail, so you can go either way with it. Here's what the gasblock version looks like:



I'm unclear as to whether that front sight can be used to brace a conventional front handguard cap, maybe I should ask that. Squinting at the pic, it kinda seems that there's a cap up front there.

That said, even a front sight mounted on handguards/shroud would not be impossible as a retro. Here's one long-gun with shroud mounted sights, which the SCR also bears a vague resemblance to:



The Shpagin (PPSh-41) is awesome; I had one in Iraq that I borrowed out of a confiscation stock and took out to plink with on the perimeter berms, fun as heck to shoot with negligible recoil and blazing ROF. Really handy little things too.

The Shpagin is also an interesting example of how, with even the right free-float handguard could look retro. We aren't necessarily obligated to use historical AR handguard types. There are a bunch of handguards that are pretty basic cylinders with cutouts. Some are more swoopy and modern and covered in rails, but some have more straightforward perforations, and either don't have rails at all, or have a mechanism by which you can add on rail, so you could add just enough rail to mount the front sight.



If anyone knows of particular free-float handguards that look vaguely retro, I'm open to ideas. Particularly ones which don't have a permanent rail, but do have provision to mount a small bit of rail for the front sight. I'd imagine most of the perforated handguards would look better in a metal-finish color, but maybe there are some that would also benefit from a bakelite hyrodip.

Speaking of rails, is there any option at all to make a flat-top upper look less-railed? It has to be a flat-top since the SCR stock drop requires a low sight picture, but just wondering if there's any way to make the upper look slightly less modern.

There is already a trend of using the Gibbz side-charging upper with the SCR, since the ergonomics are seen as better than the standard AR slingshot charging handle, which makes the SCR look a little more BAR-like.




Wow, had not seen this guy's site before, pretty cool. I had been thinking of something similar like the various shops that do hydrodip, where I could get the Ares stock and whatever handguard dipped into fake wood pattern, get an old "stationwagon paneling" style. But now that you mention it, Bakelite would probably be a little less cheesy and a lot more retro-distinctive since you really don't see that look around much these days. Personally I'm less interested in getting actually wooden handguards since that seems like it would increase fragility for some models, or the more sturdy ones like the Boyd's laminate sets don't look so retro and just aren't what I like.

Thomas's site also has another touch that I like on one or two of his pics, white painted "armory markings". One of my jobs in Iraq back in the day was reissuing confiscated weapons to Iraqi security forces, and a lot of the AKs and even Mausers we ran across had Eastern Arabic numerals on the stocks. I think something like this would look awesome painted onto a faux-Bakelite SCR stock:

Might be a perfect use for one of the green mountain "finned" barrels.
http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m11-finned-barrel-in-5-56mm-with-ext/

Nice thought on the side-cocking upper with a less-Picatinny-ized look to it.

Tangential thought for the OP and the Peanut Gallery - know how the BM59 family was a spinoff of the M-1 Garand based magazine fed 7.62 NATO battle rifles? Well, Italianized...



http://www.forgottenweapons.com/submachine-guns/beretta-m1938-family/

This could be run all the way out to the muzzle of a carbine  
Extended Rifle Length:
   Weight: 12.1 oz
   Length: 16.25"


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2695148877/lancer-systems-lch-free-float-tube-handguard-ar-15-vented-carbon-fiber






John's on here, the 'Retro' in the title will probably attract him to this thread.

Huh, that is trippy-looking:



Is that ribbing for a mechanical reason, or just for style?

An upper with a side-charging handle would be perfect for this!

Fins are generally for heat dissipation, first place I think of them is on the M1921/28 Thompsons http://www.auto-ordnance.com/Reviews2007/shotgun-news.asp

How about a Lewis light machinegun style heat dissipator?

The JP Thermal-Dissipater serves as a heat sink. Its deep-finned shape provides enhanced barrel cooling while maintaining a more uniform temperature and preventing heat-related issues like throat erosion.



http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/21709/jp-enterprises-psc-11/

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1069193390/jp-enterprises-thermal-dissipator-ar-15-black
or
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPTD750L

Bill Atkins talks about that here
http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1641834&page=58

Neat looking little pop gun.

I live in a free state so I can just build a flat top for far cheaper than this.

Ironwood makes triangle wooden handguards

After reading this thread and the other linked one......I feel dirty for kinda wanting one with all wood furniture.

They make nice FAL furniture. I just can't bring myself to go full deciduous on AR furniture yet. Too many other choices.

The SCR looks pretty sweet as is. Any way it can actually mount an AR upper?

It'll mount just about any AR-15 upper. People have found a few cases of specific uppers that aren't compatible, like the earlier version of the Gibbz upper didn't quite match up since it lacked the full-auto cutout or some such thing (the SCR re-utilizes that space for part of the action) and I think one or two of the .22 conversion kits have minor incompatibility, but as I understand it the vast majority of regular AR-15 uppers will drop right on to the SCR lower. You have to use the SCR proprietary bolt carrier though; note the photo above showing the shortened bolt carrier and FAL-style recoil spring.

But yes, the overall point of it is that it can take just about any AR-15 upper.

Could one of the old competition free float(made to look like a non-freefloat) handguard setups be used to allow the installation of a set of modified(NoDak) handguards?  EDIT:NoDak uses round endcap for handguards...

Like this one by Rock River: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/forend-amp-handguard-parts/handguards-amp-rails/ar-15-m16-nm-free-float-barrel-sleeve-prod9943.aspx
Bushmaster has one too: Seventh from the top - http://www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=14

It's basically a tube that has a barrel nut on the end with the delta ring assembly, it sleeves/freefloats the barrel while on the front end it has a handguard retainer.

ARKAR

Overall if you slap a wood-ish stock on this thing, and a metallic swiss-cheese forearm, it'll look squintingly similar to the overall category of 1st Gen submachine guns. So stufff like the above Shpagin and Suomi, the British Lanchester, Austrian MP34, and back to the German MP18. They all look pretty similar:




The other direction to take would be to make it look vaguely something like a MAS-49, with a wooden buttstock and then separate wooden handguards:




I'm less focused on getting real wood on this, both due to expense and convenience, though I can understand why some would be more tickled with wood. Though depending on the style I wouldn't mind metal or plastic handguards with bakelite or wood-pattern hyrdodip.

Here's one neat workaround a guy did on his AR-10 to get around the lack of free-float wood fore-ends. I believe this is the basic DPMS aluminum free-float, with hyrodip to roughly match the pattern of his real walnut buttstock:

I have no idea what I'm talking about here but just throwing it out there since they're wood, cheap and available but how about modding a CETME hand guard to work with it?

The SCR makes me think it is the Chevy El Camino of the AR series rifles - is it a AR15? or a Rifle?

Having said that, I happen to like El Caminos and had no idea these SCR's existed. Guessing there may be one in my future.

Midwest sells the SCR lowers. Add the upper of your choice, and you're no longer constrained by free float handguards.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/ctgy/ares-defense-rifles

I can't believe someone hasn't chimed in yet.

It's ribbed for your shooting  pleasure of course

Hell I live in a free state and I am still trying to validate buying one. I had no idea that these existed but I think I'm going to have to have one.

ARKAR

Looks pretty nice ! Great to see something different. Kinda tired of seeing the SOS.

Got an answer back from the Ares rep on the other thread: the stock rifle allows you to mount standard handguards with an endcap; that's how it comes with a Magpul MOE. Doesn't matter to me since I'll be buying just a lower and then putting my own upper on it, but since someone asked. Though note the full rifle they sell is with carbine-length gas. So if you wanted to put the Nodak AR-10-style handguards on it, you'd want to get a different upper with rifle gas anyway, and then put the delta-ring and end-cap on it so you could mount standard handguards.

I'm still inclined to go for an SMG-ish ventilated cylindrical forend, that way it's free-float but still can look retro. My only slight hesitation on it, and it's no deal-breaker, is whether any absolutely crazy state like CT or NY would consider a ventilated free-float tube to be a "barrel shroud". Anecdotally I heard something about NYC trying that to keep people from registering even SAFE-legal AR-15s, by claiming that handguards are a "barrel shroud". Pretty transparent ploy. NYC also tried turning down one guy's registration of an SCR a couple months back, iirc basically saying it was essentially an AR even if it lacked "evil" features. But he took it up the chain, got an actual weapons expert at NYPD to officially state that it meets SAFE regulations and therefore can be registered in NYC. I've heard that several members here have registered SCRs in Washington DC, to my knowledge with no hassle.

This looks about right for a retro FG42 style front sight
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/PRI-Flip-Up-Front-Sight-p/pri%2005-0025%20frontsight%20%20barrel.htm

I've been poking around a little looking at "retro optics", though it's tricky since Picatinny isn't really retro itself, and a number of the retro optics are set up to go on a carry-handle or similar (the Leapers copies of Colt scopes, etc).

It is a funny thing with the SCR: all the problems people used to have with AR compatibility back decades ago ("I need to get my scope mounted higher", "I need to attach it to a charging handle") are now flip-flopped due to the market for the AR being so prolific, and now it's tricky trying to figure out how to get the best sights and optics onto a rifle which has a Picatinny rail and accepts AR gear, but has roughly the same contours of an old hunting rifle.

Armeson still makes an OEG, that's retro tactical!

plus add the scar rear?

Totally. Good call.

Or the Knights if you prefer

And none of these will be at the correct height for the SCR,

You will either get a "chin weld" or, have to put a ridiculously high monte carlo combed stock on it.

Other than using the appropriate (proprietary) height sights available from Ares, your best bet would be a set of Troy Micro's.

Wpns Man

I've been watch this Thread with thoughts of possible future purchase, and thought that maybe the Rear Sight that Texas Weapon Systems offers would work on this rifle.

here is their pic:

I like this gun and not to totally derail it, I have been pondering the same sight problem with my Vulcan/AR180B hybrid.



Using the original AR15 flip up sights you can only get a sight picture with a chin weld.

I'll be checking out the different sight options for these ARES guns and see if I can't get something to work.

Check out the Ares picture thread I link in the OP; some folks are having success buying the very low LPA-made sights for the CZ Evo subgun, which are really inexpensive as well. The older Evo sights have a ball front, but the more recent ones have a post front that is probably better for long-range shooting, but iirc folks aren't sure how to get the latter vice the former from CZ. But that other thread is a good place to check on that.

Speaking of the AR-18 family, back in the 80s or so there was a sort of "SCR" AR-18, I think made for the Australian market. If the SCR takes off in AWB states in the US, maybe this critter would be worth resurrecting?

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/rifles/australian-automatic-arms-sac/

I wouldn't mind picking one of these up to make into a DMR type Rifle. Do they take AR15 20 and 30 round mags? I like the idea of a Monte Carlo Stock, 20 Round Mag, a Harris Bipod, and High Powered Scope.

Take a look a this post in the SCR Pics thread, I think someone recently built almost exactly what you want: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/672281_ARES_SCR_Pics.html&page=9#i6844896

Anyone good with Photoshop and want to retro-ify this?



And yes, afaik it takes all AR mags. Though I have heard that P-Mags and the ilk can be a tighter fit since the magwell has closer clearances, since it has less length and thus needs to be a little tighter to diminish mag wobble.

That is almost dead on! Only thing I'd change is the railed Handgaurd. I think a Clark Carbon Fiber free float tube with the Harris Bipod Stud would be the shizzle.

I'm liking that,

Once you figure out the correct height you could always adapt a single aperture to the bottom portion of the existing AR height 300 meter lollypop you removed. Or, mill it off and thread it for a M249 elevation adjustable aperture?

Make an appropriate height Fixed front with ears or, possibly make it adjustable by using an AK/SKS post that has room to travel in the bottom of a 1913 groove on the rail?

Wpns Man

That's a good idea using a SKS post for the front.