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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:14:09 PM EDT
I'm a bit lost here, and need some help before I contact the GunBroker seller.
I purchased a retro 20" pencil barrel assembly, but think it may be a replica barrel for non-firing models. The pins wouldn't budge at all, so I decided just to carefully grind the front sight base off. What I found is "odd", to say the least. It appears the pins are fake. I ground one pin off and found there's no pin at all going through the front sight base. The metal is "formed" somehow to look like a pin, but it is not. The entire sight base and right into the barrel itself is actually a solid piece of metal! Meaning, the sight base is actually fixed onto the barrel, or appears that way, and the "pins" don't really exist. I believe the seller gave me a replica barrel, maybe something used to build non-firing "wall hangers" or replicas that sit on a display stand on a desk. I've attached pictures for some help. The first picture shows one of the pins ground off, so you can compare to the pin next to it. As you can see, there's no separate pin going through the sight - the front sight base is all one, solid block of metal. You can also see in the first picture that, after grinding into the barrel just a bit, it too is part of a single piece of metal with the sight base. Although they look like separate parts, this is one, formed/cast piece of metal shaped to look like a real "real" barrel. The second picture shows the other side with one of the pins ground off for comparison, where you can again clearly see there's no pin going through the front sight. Does anyone here see otherwise? Anyone ever see this before? Thoughts? 
-Moose |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:28:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Moose,
The pins are tapered and will only remove from one direction. when they didn't budge, you should have tried hitting from the other side. From your pics, the pin is clearly visible under your grind marks. There appears to be carbon in the gastube hole as well. Pic's of the chamber, and bore would confirm that you do have a real barrel. You should see rifling inside as well. Keep us posted, DanG |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:35:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Moose, The pins are tapered and will only remove from one direction. when they didn't budge, you should have tried hitting from the other side. From your pics, the pin is clearly visible under your grind marks. There appears to be carbon in the gastube hole as well. Pic's of the chamber, and bore would confirm that you do have a real barrel. You should see rifling inside as well. Keep us posted, DanG This |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:38:02 PM EDT
[#3]
The second picture, you can see the transition material difference between the gas block and the pin.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:48:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Appears to be a real barrel to me. THe taper pins are tough sometimes. Set the barrel on a hard wood block and use a good hollow nosed pin punch. I think they remove left to right, but it has been years since I have had to take off a FSB. Just curious. Why were you removing the FSB?
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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:53:15 PM EDT
[#5]
If you have a pair of calipers you can measure the pins. The left side of the pin, as looking from the rear, should be about .125 or so. The right side, as looking from the rear, will be about .140- .146 or so. You drive the pin out from left to right. Some are VERY VERY VERY VERY hard to knock out.
I don't know what you would hope to gain by contacting the seller, in my opinion. Personally, I think you were a little quick to break out the cut-off wheel/die grinder. How do you suppose that front handguard cap was installed if the sight/barrel WAS actually one piece.........which it isn't. 
Edit: you weren't too careful in your grinding.......you've ground into the barrel on the one side. I hate to sound like an ass and give you a hard way to go, but geez man, think the process through a little before doing irreparable damage. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:58:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you have a pair of calipers you can measure the pins. The left side of the pin, as looking from the rear, should be about .125 or so. The right side, as looking from the rear, will be about .140- .146 or so. You drive the pin out from left to right. Some are VERY VERY VERY VERY hard to knock out. I don't know what you would hope to gain by contacting the seller, in my opinion. Personally, I think you were a little quick to break out the cut-off wheel/die grinder. How do you suppose that front handguard cap was installed if the sight/barrel WAS actually one piece.........which it isn't. +1 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:07:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Dang, looks like you Dirked a perfectly good FSB.......
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dang, looks like you Dirked a perfectly good FSB....... This is my thought too, along with the aforementioned grinding damage to the actual barrel itself. OP your barrel looks fine/legit to me. Can i ask why were you trying to take the FSB off in the first place? Did you think it was a replica before this process? |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:13:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Nice job Sam...
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:17:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Please stop grinding!!
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:20:16 PM EDT
[#11]
What other markings are on the barrel?
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:23:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What other markings are on the barrel? He said VP in a triangle with faint 12 near the threads. 
LMAO.. In all seriousness, I zoomed in and it looks like a very worn MP between the FSB legs. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:26:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He said VP in a triangle with faint 12 near the threads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What other markings are on the barrel? He said VP in a triangle with faint 12 near the threads. you are the worst type of person 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:31:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you are the worst type of person
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What other markings are on the barrel? He said VP in a triangle with faint 12 near the threads. you are the worst type of person
LMAO, swallowed my toungue for a second there...... |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:32:03 PM EDT
[#15]
And Jesus wept...when he saw the barrel.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:34:43 PM EDT
[#16]
If you need help getting everything back in shape, let me know. I can help you with everything you'll need done.
John Thomas [email protected] |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:53:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you need help getting everything back in shape, let me know. I can help you with everything you'll need done. John Thomas [email protected] Please take him up on this offer. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:03:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Moose - first, welcome to the forum.
Second - if this is the worst problem you run into, you will be fine. John Thomas is a master at rebuilding stuff. He can patch that up with a new FSB and get it back in shape so don't sweat it too bad! Also, great resources here to access BEFORE getting a bigger hammer (or grinder as the case may be) so ask lots of questions next time. And if you get into retro builds, there WILL be a next time! 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:04:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please take him up on this offer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you need help getting everything back in shape, let me know. I can help you with everything you'll need done. John Thomas [email protected] Please take him up on this offer. This! John is an ace of a guy, and does beyond awesome work.. He is in short.. the retro-god! |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:15:29 PM EDT
[#20]
From what I can see that's a real barrel. The pin for the FSB is visible the ground up area in pic #2. Another giveaway that it's not all one piece is the rust creep coming from in-between the FSB and barrel.
The tapered pins can sometimes be tight and are only come out one way. An easy way to remember which way they come out is that they come out on the same side that the brass comes out. Looking at the pictures I'm guessing you were aiming to replace the handguard cap? |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:40:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Moose - first, welcome to the forum. Second - if this is the worst problem you run into, you will be fine. John Thomas is a master at rebuilding stuff. He can patch that up with a new FSB and get it back in shape so don't sweat it too bad! Also, great resources here to access BEFORE getting a bigger hammer (or grinder as the case may be) so ask lots of questions next time. And if you get into retro builds, there WILL be a next time! This. Welcome to the madness Moose. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:47:32 PM EDT
[#22]
live and learn, the key being the learning part.
next time you'll know. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:49:02 PM EDT
[#23]
First Post Hall of Fame.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:02:58 PM EDT
[#24]
I hope he comes back and takes jt up on his offer
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:04:31 PM EDT
[#25]
I think troll:
Join date - today First post in the correct forum Knows how to post pictures Knows the sight of that poor barrel and FSB would set our hearts on fire... Logged on for a grand total of 7 minutes... I would lay odds that he and his friends are sitting back and laughing at all of us... |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:44:18 PM EDT
[#26]
I thought that was the case, too - meaning, I thought I could see the pins in the grind marks, especially in the picture. Unfortunately, the circles on the grinded portion do not line up with the pins on the other side, so much so that the circles couldn't be the pins. That's what's driving me crazy :)
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:46:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Alright, who set up the shill account to prank us...
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:55:04 PM EDT
[#28]
might be a barrel stub too.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:59:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think troll: Join date - today First post in the correct forum Knows how to post pictures Knows the sight of that poor barrel and FSB would set our hearts on fire... Looged on for a grand total of 7 minutes... I would lay odds that he and his friends are sitting back and laughing at all of us... You really think that he has friends...??
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:59:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought that was the case, too - meaning, I thought I could see the pins in the grind marks, especially in the picture. Unfortunately, the circles on the grinded portion do not line up with the pins on the other side, so much so that the circles couldn't be the pins. That's what's driving me crazy :) The pins are right where they should be. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:02:54 PM EDT
[#31]
double post
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:03:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You really think that he has friends...??
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think troll: Join date - today First post in the correct forum Knows how to post pictures Knows the sight of that poor barrel and FSB would set our hearts on fire... Looged on for a grand total of 7 minutes... I would lay odds that he and his friends are sitting back and laughing at all of us... You really think that he has friends...??
And he logges in right after to post something that we all know cannot be true... 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:20:58 PM EDT
[#33]
I poked around google and could not find those pictures on an image search. I am guessing a barrel stub or demilled. NOBODY is that stupid....
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:32:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I poked around google and could not find those pictures on an image search. I am guessing a barrel stub or demilled. NOBODY is that stupid.... Not to mention any retro barrel on Gunbroker would had someone here on the Retro furum posting a heads up. I vote barrel stub and troll credit to the OP - nicely done! 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:38:13 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:42:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Somebody has too much time and nothing to do then.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:49:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Really guys? And you wonder why I haven't posted to the forums before. The ratio of "Welcome" and "We can help" versus "You're a Biden-loving moron/idiot/retard/infidel" is ridiculous, not to mention unwelcoming. And the snobbery of the "I'm Retro-Man and Do Everything Right Every Time" is disappointing to an average guy try to get through his first retro build. Yet, I'm supposedly the troll? I do hope there are admins here worth anything that could at least TRY to change the unwelcoming, juvenile, self-absorbed culture I've seen so far.
I asked for help, and JT answered. I spoke with JT by phone, and followed up in email - I'm sure he has the experience and skill to do what I couldn't, but with dignity and respect. I'm looking forward to having a true expert help. And here's the GunBroker auction, for those of you following: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=471534177. Oh, what a surprise! It was won by..." mooseinde "...how about that. I'm not sure why the top echelon of AR15.com Forum Elitists weren't notified of the auction, maybe your contacts doing so are tired of you, too. -Moose |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:55:20 PM EDT
[#38]
No troll, unfortunately just a newbie learning a very expensive lesson.
Never be afraid to ask for help. GB auction |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:00:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really guys? And you wonder why I haven't posted to the forums before. The ratio of "Welcome" and "We can help" versus "You're a Biden-loving moron/idiot/retard/infidel" is ridiculous, not to mention unwelcoming. And the snobbery of the "I'm Retro-Man and Do Everything Right Every Time" is disappointing to an average guy try to get through his first retro build. Yet, I'm supposedly the troll? I do hope there are admins here worth anything that could at least TRY to change the unwelcoming, juvenile, self-absorbed culture I've seen so far. I asked for help, and JT answered. I spoke with JT by phone, and followed up in email - I'm sure he has the experience and skill to do what I couldn't, but with dignity and respect. I'm looking forward to having a true expert help. And here's the GunBroker auction, for those of you following: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=471534177. Oh, what a surprise! It was won by..." mooseinde "...how about that. I'm not sure why the top echelon of AR15.com Forum Elitists weren't notified of the auction, maybe your contacts doing so are tired of you, too. -Moose I came real close to bidding on that one
JT is awesome and will get things back up and running in no time, for a very reasonable price Im sure. Good luck in your future retro builds, and even though your welcome was a bit lacking on our collective parts, we are a pretty helpful bunch usually. The tacked threads at the top along with www.retroblackrifle.com are excellent resources. Good luck.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:05:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Moose, Sorry the welcome was pulled in on you. Most people here are very mature and most helpful.
I'm a thinking some people are feeling rather small and ashamed right now. Because they do know better. Blame it on a Friday night and no where to go. Good luck. And stay civil. Dave |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:12:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Moose, can you see how it looked? The picture is pretty graphic and I'm sure most of the members that viewed the picture might have been taken back a bit. Combine that with a first post and minds begin to wander. I am glad you got hooked up with JT, he has treated me very well in the past. Good luck, and welcome if its not too late.
I sold that seller a CMPB barrel last year. I thought that might be it, but I had it reparked..By JT of course. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:24:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really guys? And you wonder why I haven't posted to the forums before. The ratio of "Welcome" and "We can help" versus "You're a Biden-loving moron/idiot/retard/infidel" is ridiculous, not to mention unwelcoming. And the snobbery of the "I'm Retro-Man and Do Everything Right Every Time" is disappointing to an average guy try to get through his first retro build. Yet, I'm supposedly the troll? I do hope there are admins here worth anything that could at least TRY to change the unwelcoming, juvenile, self-absorbed culture I've seen so far. I asked for help, and JT answered. I spoke with JT by phone, and followed up in email - I'm sure he has the experience and skill to do what I couldn't, but with dignity and respect. I'm looking forward to having a true expert help. And here's the GunBroker auction, for those of you following: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=471534177. Oh, what a surprise! It was won by..." mooseinde "...how about that. I'm not sure why the top echelon of AR15.com Forum Elitists weren't notified of the auction, maybe your contacts doing so are tired of you, too. -Moose No need to get snippy although i can understand why you would. Most of the posts like mine, were out of concern. In any case like I said before JT will get you all fixed up. Your barrel is legit. We are all a big family here, some of us poke fun sometimes, others of us act differently but we are all one big helpful retro family. Stick around we don't bite and we help fellow retro heads out. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:29:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really guys? And you wonder why I haven't posted to the forums before. The ratio of "Welcome" and "We can help" versus "You're a Biden-loving moron/idiot/retard/infidel" is ridiculous, not to mention unwelcoming. And the snobbery of the "I'm Retro-Man and Do Everything Right Every Time" is disappointing to an average guy try to get through his first retro build. Yet, I'm supposedly the troll? I do hope there are admins here worth anything that could at least TRY to change the unwelcoming, juvenile, self-absorbed culture I've seen so far. I asked for help, and JT answered. I spoke with JT by phone, and followed up in email - I'm sure he has the experience and skill to do what I couldn't, but with dignity and respect. I'm looking forward to having a true expert help. And here's the GunBroker auction, for those of you following: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=471534177. Oh, what a surprise! It was won by..." mooseinde "...how about that. I'm not sure why the top echelon of AR15.com Forum Elitists weren't notified of the auction, maybe your contacts doing so are tired of you, too. -Moose Well, since I am the guy that claimed you were a troll, I must offer up my personal apology. Ya got to admite, it sure looked that way... |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:52:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Moose, you asked for help, received plenty of great advice and many welcomes, then return for a second post to tell everyone they don't know what they are talking about and the circles everyone sees don't line up with the pins. Sorry, but it did seem odd. Please accept the apologies and stick around.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:52:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Lesson to be learned here kinda like "Measure Twice Cut Once" ....
is "ASK FIRST.......and PUT THE GRINDING WHEEL AWAY!!!!".
The only reason most guys wigged out is we search high and low everyday for RETRO parts, and we cringe seeing original parts getting hacked. Don't be offended, like they said it is just an expensive lesson. Good luck Bro and JT will definitely take care of you. 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:20:12 PM EDT
[#46]
You have my apology, also, sir. I really did think it was one of the regulars pranking us with a fake account. It just seemed it was like taking a classic 1967 Corvette, and cutting a sun roof with a hack saw!
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Posted: 4/25/2015 12:31:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First Post Hall of Fame. I'll admit I had an old SKS barrel kick my butt many a years ago, but it didn't quit get that far out of hand. Sometime it's best just to take a break.....
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Posted: 4/25/2015 1:04:53 AM EDT
[#48]
You can clearly see the pin channel in your grind marks man....you just hacked up a real retro barrel.
I would take this as a lesson learned. Next time post pics before busting out the angle grinder/dremel |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 2:02:01 AM EDT
[#49]
You won't find a friendlier group on the web, you would be surprised how often things like this are posted elsewhere just to get a laugh.
Everyone here means well, it just ended up being something other than it seemed on the surface. I hope you decide to stick around, it would be a shame to see you go. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 2:36:55 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No troll, unfortunately just a newbie learning a very expensive lesson.
Never be afraid to ask for help. Been there, made some mistakes too. But asking for help, yep, its tough sometimes. Glad OP is in touch with JT. No unkind words, just get it fixed and show us the pics. Welcome to the forum! Stick around, it gets better.
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