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Posted: 4/23/2015 5:55:38 PM EDT
OK, to be able to use my legally possessed by me in Californication prior to 1-1-2000 high capacity (more than 10 round) magazines, it has to be featureless: No pistol grip, pinned stock, and muzzle brake. The "No pistol grip" can be achieved by using either a kydex paddle over the grip, or an Exile Machine "Hammerhead Grip". Both are legal per CA DOJ. This poll is for which looks better, in the opinion of the retro brotherhood....
The paddle grip is better for: manipulating the ambi safety, cheek weld, and shoulder weld. 
The Hammerhead is much better for a one hand grip while changing magazines, with the grip being similar to an FN P90 PDW grip. 
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Posted: 4/23/2015 6:32:28 PM EDT
[#1]
paddle grip
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Posted: 4/23/2015 6:39:28 PM EDT
[#2]
I vote move to a free state.
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Posted: 4/23/2015 6:40:25 PM EDT
[#3]
I can't see how that hammerhead could possibly be comfortable.
The paddle at least looks halfway right. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 6:42:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I vote move to a free state. I vote the opposite. Never retreat, never surrender. If we flooded commie states we would have a better chance making our voice heard. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 6:59:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Using the GP strap sling over the strong shoulder, the hammerhead works pretty well gripping it at my waist, suspended from the sling. When I throw it up to the shoulder to fire, however, that is where the hammerhead looses its appeal. With the paddle, the trigger finger or thumb of strong hand can manipulate the ambi safety without shifting the strong hand grip. The hammerhead is easier to use the off hand to manipulate the regular safety lever on the left side.
Morg, as for move to "free America", I own a house that is being used as a rental (think God for the income from that) in the Coos Bay, OR area. However, "She who must be obeyed" will NEVER leave California and the grandkids, especially out 2 1/2 year old grandson who lives 5 minutes from us, and spends at least half his time with us. Therefore, it is making the best of a bad situation! It could be worse. I could be in NJ or NY! |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 7:37:30 PM EDT
[#6]
I used the hammerhead on the 300 Blackout and 5.56 M4gery builds I used on the Homeland Security mandated electric infrastructure patrol I did for 19 months patroling dams and powerhouses in the mountains. can you believe that I was doing a Federally mandated (and funded) "anti terrorist patrol" of critical infrastructure, but Californication would not allow me to have a F-ing pistol grip?????
300 Blackout 
5.56 
fat old man... Before I lost 70lbs this last year 
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Posted: 4/23/2015 7:38:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Oh no you don't.....It's like that ugly sisters motivational poster, isn't it ?
I vote the top one looks less worse. I reckon. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 8:08:50 PM EDT
[#8]
I played the featureless game for a while, but balanced the shootability of a AR in normal configuration with a maglock VS a paddle or other featurless configuration - and the odds of a self defense situation requiring more than a Glock 17 with a light. ( with a 17 round mag and a spare)
G17 with a light won, and I just use 10 round mags for my AR15 range use and don't even bother pre loading up any of my boxes of standard cap mags. If things start to deterate to the stage where I would need more firepower it ould only take a minute to drop in a MagMagnet and load up some mags. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 8:28:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I played the featureless game for a while, but balanced the shootability of a AR in normal configuration with a maglock VS a paddle or other featurless configuration - and the odds of a self defense situation requiring more than a Glock 17 with a light. ( with a 17 round mag and a spare) G17 with a light won, and I just use 10 round mags for my AR15 range use and don't even bother pre loading up any of my boxes of standard cap mags. If things start to deterate to the stage where I would need more firepower it ould only take a minute to drop in a MagMagnet and load up some mags. I hear you, FAST. Still for me, old habits die hard. 7 years military and 20+ years LE, I just feel better with the featureless AK and AR ready in the safe with a Galati Int. "6-pack" mag shoulder bag of loaded 30s for each. My 9mm S&W 669 (upgraded to 3rd gen 6906) with 12+1 of Federal 9BPLE 115 +P+ loads is my daily carry piece. I do have a Glock 19, with 15 rounders, but actually prefer my old Smith 9! My ready gun is an 18" 12 ga riot loaded with 3" mag #1 buckshot (24 pellets, each .30 caliber) is always loaded and at the ready in the house. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 8:36:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Paddle grip IMO
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Posted: 4/23/2015 9:10:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Using the GP strap sling over the strong shoulder, the hammerhead works pretty well gripping it at my waist, suspended from the sling. When I throw it up to the shoulder to fire, however, that is where the hammerhead looses its appeal. With the paddle, the trigger finger or thumb of strong hand can manipulate the ambi safety without shifting the strong hand grip. The hammerhead is easier to use the off hand to manipulate the regular safety lever on the left side. Morg, as for move to "free America", I own a house that is being used as a rental (think God for the income from that) in the Coos Bay, OR area. However, "She who must be obeyed" will NEVER leave California and the grandkids, especially out 2 1/2 year old grandson who lives 5 minutes from us, and spends at least half his time with us. Therefore, it is making the best of a bad situation! It could be worse. I could be in NJ or NY! This is true. My folks live in NY state, and every time I drive to visit I have to leave my guns with Olgunner. Another reason I want another M1 carbine - just to piss them off. AFAIK an original M1 carbine is still legal there. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 9:15:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Go with whichever one that makes it easier for you to manipulate the weapon. Function over form in this case. God forbid, just in case you ever have to really use it.
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:17:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go with whichever one that makes it easier for you to manipulate the weapon. Function over form in this case. God forbid, just in case you ever have to really use it. You know, it is almost a tie, as far as "overall total" function. The hammerhead, however, may have a slight edge because the grip on the weapon is definitely more secure. That's why I used it on the M4geries I use when I patrolled the mountains. There were times I had one hand on the carbine, and one hand on the mountainside. Accuracy, though is better with the paddle grip. When I go up and sight in the M4gery with MK262 MOD1 ammo, I will try some "bounce the can" snap-shot drills with each grip and the red dot. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:17:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go with whichever one that makes it easier for you to manipulate the weapon. Function over form in this case. God forbid, just in case you ever have to really use it. Agree in priniciple, but just can't see how that hammerhead could be the lesser of two weevils. So a backhand vote for the paddle. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:26:24 PM EDT
[#15]
One of the rural deputies I would run into regularly put it eloquently "That's F**king ridiculous that they actually expect you to engage terrorists with a f**king retarded rifle!"
Morg, sometimes I would carry my M1 Carbine on patrol, just because I could! 
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:33:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I vote the opposite. Never retreat, never surrender. If we flooded commie states we would have a better chance making our voice heard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I vote move to a free state. I vote the opposite. Never retreat, never surrender. If we flooded commie states we would have a better chance making our voice heard. The British didn't stay in Dunkirk to over throw the Nazi empire. It wasn't a retreat, but a good sound decision 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:50:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Bernie if youever sell that M1 Carbine, I want first dibs! LOL... I voted #1.. it looks to be the least of the bad.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:52:11 AM EDT
[#18]
I LOVE the M1 Carbine. A Carbine was the first centerfire rifle I ever fired around 1962 or so. I personally have had a carbine since 1982, and carried one as a LEO trunk weapon much of my career. It is a 1942 or 1943, 6 digit Inland, arsenal rebuilt after WW2 (based on the dark manganese phosphate finish). Right now it is in an original Inland "High Wood" stock. If I hadtosell all my guns except one long gun, I would keep the M1 carbine.
In about 1988 or 1989, I killed a Blacktail deer at 100 yards with a single 110 JSP with a single heart-lung shot. It jumped 30 feet, then was DRT. My dad carried an M1 Carbine on Iwo Jima in WW2, as did his brothers who were Marines in other areas of the Pacific Theater of Operations. They all came home in one piece. It is underrated. A 110 grain bullet at 1970 FPS, gives almost 1,000 FT Lbs ME. It still has 650 ft lbs at 100 yards. That is more than a .357 magnum or many 44 mag loads at the muzzle. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:39:07 AM EDT
[#19]
I have a mixmaster Springfield in a CMP Stock
Picked this CMP Springfield for $950.00 with everything in the picture in 2012 |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:52:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a mixmaster Springfield in a CMP Stock <a href="http://s236.photobucket.com/user/whiskey_024/media/IMG_09182.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff306/whiskey_024/IMG_09182.jpg</a> Picked this CMP Springfield for $950.00 with everything in the picture in 2012 Nice! |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 6:14:18 AM EDT
[#21]
The M1 carbine is simply my favorite semi-auto longarm. My Uncle Verne carried a carbine and a 1911 across Africa, then Sicily and then France and Germany. He came home. I can't imagine being in a worse situation than that.
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Posted: 4/25/2015 10:28:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The M1 carbine is simply my favorite semi-auto longarm. My Uncle Verne carried a carbine and a 1911 across Africa, then Sicily and then France and Germany. He came home. I can't imagine being in a worse situation than that. Amen! My dad's kept him alive on Iwo Jima, and his two brothers, Marines in the Pacific who fought from Island to island, also carried them and came home. They seemed to work pretty well in Vietnam, also. I think two things gave the carbine a bad rep in Korea: One was poor usage in uncontrolled full auto fire, and Two, the distances in Korea were a lot greater. Lots of open hill land. The Pacific and Vietnam had predominantly close up and personal (under 100 yard-fighting, something the carbine was designed for). In Europe, Audie Murphy used it when he earned the Medal of Honor in Italy. An ex-Advisor I knew from Vietnam 1963ish carried an M2, exclusively. Even "Stormin Norman" Schwarzkopf carried an M2 when he was a young infantry Lt. in Vietnam |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 6:41:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Paddle
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Posted: 4/28/2015 6:29:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a mixmaster Springfield in a CMP Stock <a href="http://s236.photobucket.com/user/whiskey_024/media/IMG_09182.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff306/whiskey_024/IMG_09182.jpg</a> Picked this CMP Springfield for $950.00 with everything in the picture in 2012 Very nice. I picked up this 1944 Inland a few years ago from the CMP for $514 shipped. It is accompanied by some of my WWII memorabilia. The holster is dated 1944 and the 1911A1 inside of it is a 1944 Remington Rand. The belt, canteen, canteen cover, and first aid kit are all WWII vintage. The M1 Carbine magazine pouch is WWII NOS. The helmet and mesh are repros. The grenades are dummies. 
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Posted: 4/29/2015 8:47:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Is that a NoDak Spud lower?
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Posted: 4/30/2015 12:45:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I vote move to a free state. Same here. I went with the pie, |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 9:53:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:Both are legal per CA DOJ. Should be obvious how I voted in the poll but the statement quoted above is incorrect. The CA-DOJ's Assault Weapons Identification expert testified at trial* under oath that Hammerhead (and certain other featureless products by various other manufacturers) is not a pistol grip and thus legal if used on a featureless rifle, but when presented with a photo of a grip wrap, testified that it was a grey area. Don't forget that there is another newer alternative to the grip wrap, a design which we have released to the CA compliance market for FREE under a creative commons license. The Exile Machine SideGrip. Available in AK and AR-15 models in right hand, left hand, and ambi format. These are too new to have made it to trial yet. (which is the only way you'll ever get an opinion from the CA-DOJ.) Simply download and 3D print. If you don't have a 3D printer, you can find a local printer owner who'll print for you at 3dhubs.com. Mark CEO Exile Machine LLC 
*Sworn testimony of Frank Navarro, CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms Special Agent, in the case of People vs. Haack and Haack, California County of Tulare Superior Court, 3 November 2010. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:20:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Mark, thanks. I based my statement from your web page (where I got my Hammerhead) and the Solar Tactical web page refers to the same case on their paddle page.... (or at least it did last year!) By the way, thanks for supporting those of us that do not live in "free America" and giving us a way to utilize our legal, pre-ban high caps! It is a great product.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 12:31:47 AM EDT
[#29]
As for grip of the Hammerhead, it is very similar to the grip of an FN P90 PDW. Odd,but very secure. The paddle is ONLY superior in shoulder and cheek weld, but not by much. Right now, it has the Hammerhead on it.
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Posted: 5/9/2015 7:11:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Well, here it is: I put it on its own Anderson A2 lower I traded ammo for, instead of sharing the 601 NDS lower with my faux-602. Skinny carbine handguards and Colt 30 rounder (so it's retro), with pinned M4 stock, Tactical Tri-Delta Brake, and hammerhead grip from Exile Machine -all so I can use my pre-2000 possessed 30 rounders. The hammerhead did better with the drills I did, especially on magazine changes. Once again. sorry about cell phone pics.
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Posted: 5/9/2015 7:25:50 PM EDT
[#31]
General Burnside, can you post a picture of how you hold the grip properly?
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Posted: 5/9/2015 7:30:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Not mine, but a good picture of the Hammerhead being gripped.
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Posted: 5/9/2015 7:34:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
General Burnside, can you post a picture of how you hold the grip properly? Here's a link to our page of rifle handling photos: https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pages/hammerhead-handling-7.html And a youtube video showing one of our California customers doing a mag dump with a Hammerhead equipped rifle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqGE9pLCe24 |
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Posted: 5/9/2015 7:38:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's a link to our page of rifle handling photos: https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pages/hammerhead-handling-7.html And a youtube video showing one of our California customers doing a mag dump with a Hammerhead equipped rifle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqGE9pLCe24 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
General Burnside, can you post a picture of how you hold the grip properly? Here's a link to our page of rifle handling photos: https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pages/hammerhead-handling-7.html And a youtube video showing one of our California customers doing a mag dump with a Hammerhead equipped rifle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqGE9pLCe24 Doesn't appear too uncomfortable. Thanks for the picture and links... |
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