Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 1/18/2015 1:45:30 AM EDT
So I got a bug to build a 723 clone. However, I've seen so many variations that I'm confused as to what is the most correct version. I'm planning on using a A1 upper with a brass deflector and a large round FA,
6 hole colt hand guards, 2 pos. N1 fiberlite stock, Delta ring, and a 14.5 pencil barrel. I also have the NDS 80% lower that I plan on sending out for engraving, then do the mill work myself and finally get upper and lower coated. I'd sure appreciate any comments about my choice of parts.

Questions are:

See any problems in this approach?

I've been able to find 2 engravers - Orion and Ident Markings. Anyone have experience with either?

Will they copy the original manufacture markings, like the one below that was online, or are there trademark problems with the Colt logo?

I've seen some models with the selector position markings on both sides and some with just the selector side. Was this just early and late models?

Figured I'd check with the experts here to make sure I got it right.  Thanks
















Link Posted: 1/18/2015 1:28:31 PM EDT
[#1]
I would start in this thread and see if/how many of your questions it answers first.  

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_127/647873_Show_me_some_727_s.html

The BHD carbine thread has a lot of information in it, too.  

~Augee
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 1:54:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
So I got a bug to build a 723 clone. However, I've seen so many variations that I'm confused as to what is the most correct version. I'm planning on using a A1 upper with a brass deflector and a large round FA,
6 hole colt hand guards, 2 pos. N1 fiberlite stock, Delta ring, and a 14.5 pencil barrel. I also have the NDS 80% lower that I plan on sending out for engraving, then do the mill work myself and finally get upper and lower coated. I'd sure appreciate any comments about my choice of parts.

Questions are:

See any problems in this approach?

View Quote


Sounds a awful lot like my 723 except mine uses a non F marked FSB M4 barrel and my 80% ended up as a Mattel Commando (it is a California "Off list Lower"  thing)

Augees suggestion to look at those links is about the best suggestion you can get. Lots of information there.

Shot of mine:

" />
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 2:03:03 PM EDT
[#3]
The A1 upper, Pencil Barrel, and Slip Ring, instead of the of the later parts would make it an early 723 as opposed to a late 723 build with M4 barrel, C7 upper, and Delta Ring.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 2:31:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The A1 upper, Pencil Barrel, and Slip Ring, instead of the of the later parts would make it an early 723 as opposed to a late 723 build with M4 barrel, C7 upper, and Delta Ring.
View Quote


early 723 clone




late 723 clone

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 7:24:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would start in this thread and see if/how many of your questions it answers first.  

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_127/647873_Show_me_some_727_s.html

The BHD carbine thread has a lot of information in it, too.  

~Augee
View Quote



Thanks for the link to the thread Augee.

This is a wealth of info.

You guys are amazing. It's like having my own tech manual
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 9:12:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The A1 upper, Pencil Barrel, and Slip Ring, instead of the of the later parts would make it an early 723 as opposed to a late 723 build with M4 barrel, C7 upper, and Delta Ring.


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>



Those 723's are sweet!

After going thru everything I realized that I have a foot on either side of the fence with the parts I have. So I'm going to build both.

Got 2 NDS 80%'s - so might as well.

Does anyone know if on the late 723 (M4 bbl, C7 upper) the selector had a tick and the positions were engraved on both sides?

I have seen both versions. Was this just the transition period that used whatever was on the shelf?



Sorry if I seem (am) anal retentive. Just used to restoring tractors where ser. # dictated part changes (most of the time)




Link Posted: 1/20/2015 9:37:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The A1 upper, Pencil Barrel, and Slip Ring, instead of the of the later parts would make it an early 723 as opposed to a late 723 build with M4 barrel, C7 upper, and Delta Ring.


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>


What's the difference between a 653 and an early 723?
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 11:03:47 PM EDT
[#8]
The stock and the twist rate
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 11:20:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The stock and the twist rate
View Quote


Twist...that's it...for the new M855, thanks. I remembered the stock after I posted.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 12:31:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Twist...that's it...for the new M855, thanks. I remembered the stock after I posted.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The stock and the twist rate


Twist...that's it...for the new M855, thanks. I remembered the stock after I posted.


Don't forget the pistol grip.  

It was one of the major M16A2 "enhancements" (actually personally really like the A2 grip, but I know that statement's liable to get me put in time-out here ).  

~Augee
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 3:07:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Don't know much about engraving but I know there was a thread here recently about ident,  seems they're having a lot of customer relations issues...
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 10:08:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What's the difference between a 653 and an early 723?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The A1 upper, Pencil Barrel, and Slip Ring, instead of the of the later parts would make it an early 723 as opposed to a late 723 build with M4 barrel, C7 upper, and Delta Ring.


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>


What's the difference between a 653 and an early 723?


These are major differences I have seen:
723 has the fiberlite CAR stock, 653 has the aluminum vinyl acetate CAR stock
723 has A2 pistol grip, 653 has A1 pistol grip
723 has round FA, 653 has teardrop FA
723 has Delta ring, 653 has flat ring
port doors are different

I have seen some 723s with A2 lowers and others with A1 lowers. Not sure exactly what is correct, but I chose to use A1 lowers on mine. 653s have A1 lowers.

Link Posted: 1/21/2015 10:10:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Interesting, thanks.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 1:07:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

These are major differences I have seen:
723 has the fiberlite CAR stock, 653 has the aluminum vinyl acetate CAR stock
723 has A2 pistol grip, 653 has A1 pistol grip
723 has round FA, 653 has teardrop FA
723 has Delta ring, 653 has flat ring
port doors are different

I have seen some 723s with A2 lowers and others with A1 lowers. Not sure exactly what is correct, but I chose to use A1 lowers on mine. 653s have A1 lowers.

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/001_zpsa64eb0e5.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/001_zpsa64eb0e5.jpg</a>
View Quote


There have been documented factory RO723s with teardrop forward assists and vinyl acetate coated aluminum stocks as well.  

Also, forgot to note - though minor little features - they are the "distinguishing marks" of the M16A2 series that a 6xx series would not have had - most of the major change from an "early configuration" RO723 and R653 would be in the barrel -

The RO723 would also have an A2 compensator with peel washers versus an A1 flash suppressor with a lock washer, the square, four position front sight post, and obviously the barrel twist.  The 1/7 twist, the compensator, the pistol grip, and the front sight post are, IMHO, the "definitive" feature of Colt's commercial/export M16A2 "family."  On the lower, you can also throw in the "tic" in the selector switch and right side selector markings.  All other elements like receiver types/forgings, stocks, forward assists, barrel profile, etc. are widely variable even within models, much less consistent from model to model in the 7xx series.  

~Augee
Link Posted: 1/30/2015 12:49:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The A1 upper, Pencil Barrel, and Slip Ring, instead of the of the later parts would make it an early 723 as opposed to a late 723 build with M4 barrel, C7 upper, and Delta Ring.


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>


Very nice!  Can you give me your impression of the barrel difference?  Is there much difference in the weight/handling/feel of the two?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/2/2015 1:24:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Very nice!  Can you give me your impression of the barrel difference?  Is there much difference in the weight/handling/feel of the two?

Thanks.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The A1 upper, Pencil Barrel, and Slip Ring, instead of the of the later parts would make it an early 723 as opposed to a late 723 build with M4 barrel, C7 upper, and Delta Ring.


early 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/003_zps6e1f0c56.jpg</a>


late 723 clone

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/Retro%20ARs/005_zpsc93b8404.jpg</a>


Very nice!  Can you give me your impression of the barrel difference?  Is there much difference in the weight/handling/feel of the two?

Thanks.


Not jrs, but I used to have an R653 and late-RO723 clone that I shot side by side, personally, I preferred the slightly heavier "government" profile barrel to the lightweight barrel.  

They were both great, lightweight shooters, but the RO723 was just slightly more nose-heavy without being significantly heavier in terms of overall weight than the R653, but that nose-down attitude helped it to be just a little less snappy when fired, and a little bit easier to transition from target to target.

~Augee
Link Posted: 2/2/2015 3:16:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Thanks Augee.  I'm going to be putting together a truck gun with a C7 (A2/FS) upper pretty soon and the goal is to be as handy, simple, rugged, and lightweight as I can make it.  Looking through the Colt carbine variation guide, a 723 looks to be almost exactly what I'm envisioning.  I've got a line on a 14.5" M4 profile barrel so I'm glad to hear it doesn't ruin the handiness of the package.

Form is going to follow function on this one so it's going to be more of a "723 inspired" build than an exact clone (I'm not going to track down a 2 position receiver extension or anything like that).  Otherwise I'd hang out with you fine people in the retro forum all day long.
Link Posted: 2/2/2015 11:42:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks Augee.  I'm going to be putting together a truck gun with a C7 (A2/FS) upper pretty soon and the goal is to be as handy, simple, rugged, and lightweight as I can make it.  Looking through the Colt carbine variation guide, a 723 looks to be almost exactly what I'm envisioning.  I've got a line on a 14.5" M4 profile barrel so I'm glad to hear it doesn't ruin the handiness of the package.

Form is going to follow function on this one so it's going to be more of a "723 inspired" build than an exact clone (I'm not going to track down a 2 position receiver extension or anything like that).  Otherwise I'd hang out with you fine people in the retro forum all day long.
View Quote


Just get an M&A CAR stock and call it a RO777 clone - use whatever other modern parts you please, just remember to use a peel washer instead of crush washer.  

Success.  

~Augee
Page AR-15 » AR-15 / M-16 Retro Forum
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top