I'v have a 1964 vintage open top XM3 bipod pouch with the full length pocket on the front for the cleaning rod. I also have a M11 cleaning rod with dated polykraft packaging plus a M11E1 rod with no polykraft packaging. Over the years I picked up a few more cleaning rods, bipods and pouches that may or may not be relevant to this early period. I checked the info/photos done by WillyP, the drawings done by Bert Mullins and spoke with Bill Ricca, they provided a lot of excellent info but by the looks of it there still may be gaps in info that aren't covered. Does anyone know what the thread dimensions were on the first early 601 Colt ArmaLite cleaning rod that was 4pc black alloy that according to WillyP was issued from 1959-1964? My M11 cleaning rod is 8/32 and the M11E1 is 8/36. Depending on the thread size it could determine when the open top XM3 bipod pouch with the short pocket on the front was issued and what cleaning rod fit in it. It would be very helpful to also have the dimensions of the open top XM3 bipod pouch short cleaning rod pocket that the cleaning rod fit into. I believe a couple of senior AR15 members may have the very early open top XM3 bipod pouch with the shorter cleaning rod pocket. As best I can tell what could be the very first open top XM3 bipod pouch had no pocket for a cleaning rod. Experimenting with my open top XM3 bipod pouch with the full length pocket on the front I was able to easly insert a 4pc knurled handled cleaning rod and I believe that this would be even more functional with the shorter pocket pouch. As for the bipods they all appear to fall in place except for one that I'm still digging for more info. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Rich.

I'm not sure about the threads on the alloy rods...I'll try to figure that out.
The rod pocket on my open-top pouch (which came with the Armalite-marked bipod) is about 7 3/4" long by 1 3/8" wide.

The rods, incidentally, are about 7 7/8" long.

Not totally straying off topic, I have a question. Numrich has Colt bayonets, and they are advertising Chrome Colt marked bayos as well. My question is, are these take ins from drill rifles? I've never heard of Colt Chroming their bayonets.

OLGUNNER I was fairly certain that you had the very early pouch and this will be a huge help. By all accounts it looks like your rare black alloy four section cleaning rod fits the short pocket according to the dimensions of the rod and pocket in the photo. An easy way to check the thread size is to try attaching a tip from a much later rod like the T handle type that's 8/36 and if your rod is 8/32 it won't thread since it is too large to fit. If your cleaning rod turns out to be a 8/32 thread than the next following cleaning rod IMO should be the M11 (issued 1964) which is also 8/32 thread and uses the same design pouch but with the full length pocket for the longer 3 sections. Very much appreciate you providing the info OLGUNNER, Rich.   Note: It was suggested in a prior thread that as much as possible data/photos be gathered on the retro cleaning rods, bipods and pouches and attempt to centralize the info into one thread and maybe a future stickey for reference. Please anyone feel free to contribute whatever you can for ideas, photos giving credit to people like Bill Ricca, WillyP and Bert Mullins who have done a lot already.

Um...601 leaf sight too!  

Id give my left nut for a 601 bipod!! Haha

I used to say that about sleeping with certain hot women or owning certain sports cars, etc. Until my brother gave his nuts for Cancer.... I've been trying to come up with a new saying for things I'd do for unobtainable objects."Like, I'd give 6 months off my life for a go with xxx." Doesn't have the same ring as the original saying, and I'd probably still use it if he had his nuts, funny, I was busting his chops after the surgery, and kept asking him if he could  pick out prostetic balls. I told him in his case if they had some sort of catalog to pick them out of of(like women do with breast enlargements), to go with the triple  B's.

I just want to know what asswipe thought 8/36 was the way to go. It likely conforms with a metric, NATO equivalent.  I've been wanting an original M11 set and bipod / pouch for the XM16E1 for years.

I checked it with one of my benchrest brushes and the thread is #8/32.

I bought this rod set, with the Energa grenade sight, from WillyP a while back.  They are the set that was wrapped in kraft paper and shown in the photo at the bottom of this page.  (I'm linking the site for anyone who hasn't enjoyed his wonderful photos yet.)  If I recall correctly, he had two sets and ended up unwrapping this one to document the contents and then sold it to me.
Also, note that his photo shows a bore brush sticking out of the end.  I am almost 100% certain he said that was NOT part of the original set--it was a modern brush that he stuck it on the rod just to check the thread size.

I always found it interesting that those wrapped bundles contained the 4-piece rod set (with patch holder) and the grenade sight.  Seemed to be a rather random association of parts.

I do have some excellent reference info for the early rod sets, but it is on a PC I just replaced due to major hardware issues.  I need to find time to put it on the bench and retrieve my old files.

That is a great reference page from WillyP. Hope it never goes away. And +1 for stickying this info somewhere.

OLGUNNER again thanks for your expert input and you have established that the first 601 cleaning rod is 8/32 thread. Other than your cleaning rod with the Energa grenade sight and the one WillyP has probably the only other sets are in US military collections. Re the bore brush weren't some commercial cleaning rods 8/32? OLGUNNER it looks like you were trying to make sense of the bundle with the cleaning rod and Energa sight, disassociated parts. From a couple of photos I'v seen the first XM3 bipod pouch could be the one with no pocket on the front, just a carrier for the bipod. Your bipod pouch is likely the second XM3 pouch. Just to clarify re your bipod is it marked only ArmaLite or Colt-ArmaLite? Based on OLGUNNERS report that the thread size of the first cleaning rod is 8/32 than it seems logical to me the next in line cleaning rod was the M11 that was also 8/32 and that was followed by the M11E1 which was changed to 8/36 thread. The M11E1 cleaning rod IMO used the same XM3 open top pouch with the long pocket. At that point any related misc accesssories were probably stored in fatigue uniform pockets. To a degree this is almost a process of elimination with some items having a very short period of service and supplanted by a newer design that's more functional for combat in VN. I will be adding to the list the subsequent later cleaning rods/pouches/bipods from the retro period, feel free to jump in and tell me if I'm going in the wrong direction with anything. In the end if some talented members can organize the info/photos and put it all in a sticky that would be great. I hope to be attending the Springfield MA show in Nov and see what I can find on the tables and buried in boxes. Morg308 you have an IM incoming shortly.

The bipod is marked both Colt and Armalite (as is my early bayonet).
I posted photos and info here back when I found it.

I applaud you for trying to expand our knowledge base here!

OLGUNNER thanks for confirming your bipod is marked Colt-ArmaLite. Along with the Delft scope/pouch Colt-ArmaLite bayonet/scabbard your collection of the 601 accessories must be as complete as any in exsistance. I spent quite a bit of time reading OLGUNNERS threads along with many other threads from AR15 members, your the ones that deserve all the credit for putting togeather these outstanding retro collections and posting photos/descriptions. These very early 1960s 601 accessories if you check production numbers listed in the Black Rifle were very small in number and to find any today your going to have to look very long and hard. I have some more cleaning rods and pouches etc to check for sizing and will be reporting back with findings as I wind may way into the later 1960s.

So what's just the pouch worth out of curiousity?

Morg308 did you get my IM?

I have no idea...mine came with the bipod, and I don't want to admit what I paid to wrest that from its previous owner's grip!  

Difficult to put a price on OLGUNNERS original very early 601 Colt-ArmaLite pouch/bipod/cleaning rod/Energa sight. Someone will spend many years tracking down these items, doubtful you would ever find everything grouped togeather and get it in a single purchase. First off you have to know what your looking for and when located if it is authentic, next you have to know where to look and that could be any place under the sun from yard sales, estate sales, auctions, gun shows, collectors, Ebay, gun boards like AR15 etc or ask your next door neighbor who's a VN veteran. Time involved could be several hours every day of the year, expenses for traveling and then having the money at hand to purchase the item when found, it could be $5 or $500. Keep in mind that these items are 50+ years old, issued in very small numbers as far as US military items go, many were used in combat in VN and probably few made it back to the US mainland.

Nice stuff, Ol Gunner.  The cleaning rod that came with my  pouch and Colt/ArmaLite marked bipod was only two piece and a bore brush. Not sure of length as I don't have them with me.  Both rods together go the length of the bore plus.  IIRC this is the set up shown in the earlier manuals.  

Like this one.....

and this one....

WaffenUndBier when you get the opportunity and you don't mind take measurements of the two sections of the cleaning rod. Also check if the bore brush is 8/32 thread and confirm if the rod has a solid knurled handle, looks like it from the photo. The XM3 pouch is IMO the third issued circ 1964 with the M11 cleaning rod. The Colt-ArmaLite bipod is of the same vintage, 1959 to at least 1964.

I looked for my set. Looks like it's in deep storage. I'll try to dig it out soon. In case anyone is interested am180 has one of those type pouches on gunbroker with a buy it now of $25. I have one (somewhere), so I don't need it. Just passing it along.

This probably isn't much help, but this is 1963 dated M11.

WaffenUndBier I checked my M11 rod and it looks like your missing a short section and the tip, the brush and rod threads are 8/32 same as commercial rods. The XM3 bipod pouch and Colt bipod are correct, you just need to find the tip and rod section. You more than made up for it with the two early Colt manuals. Booze that would be tough to beat for accurate drawings/description of the M11 rod. Update: I keep going over the photos/text by WillyP, the drawings by Bert Mullins of the M11/M11-E1/M11-E2 cleaning rods, checking my rods against theirs and other info on AR15 and how they relate to the bipod pouches. I tried a T handle three section rod in an open top bipod pouch with the long rod pocket on the front, it's tight but it fits so I'm going to say this was the intended pouch for the M11-E2 rod. I found a notation that the first black four section Colt-ArmaLite 8/32 thread cleaning rod late in the game (1963?) it was issued in a parkerized finish. Taking another look at my cleaning rods I have two rods that are knurled handle four section. One according to what WiilyP pictures/description is a black SP1 cleaning rod. The second rod is parkerized knurled handle four section with a tip and also a short section that is about 3" long. The package is unopened but if I was to bet this 3" long section is threaded to accept a 8/32 tip as found on the first Colt-ArmaLite and the M11 cleaning rod. My guess this is a "transitional" rod between the  M11 and M11-E1 dating to 1965. This knurled four section rod would fit in the open top bipod pouch with either the short or long narrow pocket on the front. Reading between the lines it looks like they were attempting to keep earlier issued cleaning rods and pouches functional as new updated rods, pouches, brushes and cleaning supplies were being slowly sent and issued to the troops in VN.

My bipod is marked Colt ArmaLite.(I have one marked just Colt from about 1966, have to check the wrap). The Instructions for the Operations of the Colt ArmaLite AR15 Automatic Rifle are dated 3-60 (six zero) and show a two piece cleaning rod with a brush only, as does the Contractor Manual.

WaffenUndBier I'll take your word for it that this early rod is complete from the manual description, I don't have a copy of the early Colt-ArmaLite manual, another thing for my shopping list. I remember seeing a similar description in an old thread but like yours I mistakenly wrote it off as a missing rod section. We are probably talking about an item from 1959 to 1961 prior to the first USAF contract rifles. Your cleaning rod looks like it might fall in this very early time frame. As I go along I find I have to reevaluate things as new information surfaces re these seldom seen items. Items like your cleaning rod would of been mfg in very small numbers that is why it's so difficult to find any samples outside of pictures in manuals that didn't always have the clearest photos/illustrations. Any chance of measuring the two section cleaning rod you have and confirming that it's 8/32 thread. All three items togeather IMO fall in the highly collectable class.

I found them (of course in the very last bin in which I looked). The threads appear to be 8-32. The knurled rod length is 11.5". The shorter rod is 9.5". Together, they are 20 11/16". The manuals don't have good drawings.. I'm hoping this is the right one for my rifle. If not, no biggie.

WaffenUndBier going by the measurements and the photo of your cleaning rod with solid knurled handle I checked the drawings with dimensions done by Bert Mullins. The knurled handle section being 11.5" and the rod section being 9.5" match up to the M11 three section plus patch tip cleaning rod dated 1964. Looks like your missing a rod section of 9.5" and the rod tip of 1-15/16" all 8/32 thread. NOTE: I finally carefully opened up my parkerized four piece with patch tip cleaning rod that was sealed in the original poly bag. The rod handle is knurled, there is a short rod section measuring only 2-3/4" long and a patch tip that is 1-7/8" long. I threaded in a 8/36 bore brush and it fit into the 2-3/4" rod extension. Other than the female end (8/36) of the short extension the rod and patch tip is threaded 8/32. As I suspected this rod is a transitional model for the M11 (8/32) and the later issue M11-E1 and M11-E2, both 8/36 thread, allowing interchangability of the tips, bore brushes and chamber brushes between these three cleaning rods. I'm guessing it was introduced in 1966-67. I have a second cleaning rod that is identical in measurements, thread is 8/32 but the finish is darker not parkerized and appears very similar to the one the WillyP posted of the early SP1 cleaning rod and it doesn't have the short extension to adapt the 8/36 attachments (bore brush/chamber brush/patch tip). Unless I hear otherwise from someone that has an early SP1 cleaning rod I'll go with the SP1 cleaning rod being 8/32 thread.