Hello

I have a few questions about the proper finishes on a couple of retro carbines.

I am currently looking for parts to finish a couple builds.  
1 - Colt XM177E2 Clone
2 - Colt model 653 Clone

Now for the questions....

I already have what I believe to be a Colt upper.  But it's in black finish. However I do not have my lowers yet and plan on getting them from Nodak.  

So, what type of finish should I get for each of these builds?  Should I get a black retro lower from Nodak to match my black upper.....and use it for the model 653?  Or should both be finished in gray? In which case I would need to get my upper refinished...

I have pictures of my upper....but had issues using photobucket to post them.  Will try later to post them.  

Any advice is much appreciated. ..

S

A real XM177E2 would have been grey. Unsure about the 653.

I went with black for my XM177E2 clone, to share lowers with an M4ish upper in either 6.5 or 6.8. I am wavering between the Grendel and the SPC, I like the slightly longer range of the 6.5 but will never be hunting anywhere to take advantage of it, plus I see 6.8 around at Bass Pro and other stores locally. Decisions,decision.

Yea, I have decided to definitely go with a gray finish on the XM177E2.  But still not sure if my planned model 653 would be best in black or gray?  I do know my Colt 14.5 barrel is marked as a later one.

If you look at some of the photos from Vietnam that show guys holding them, you can actually tell that they are grey. Here are pics of my XM177E2 and 653 clones.

XM177E2 clone


Model 653 clone

Very nice builds....

So, I should just plan on building them both in gray finish.  I will just need to get my original upper restored to gray finish.

Thanks so much for responding

Here are pictures of my upper..........


http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140720_151318_zpsc03473c4.jpg

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140720_151335_zps0d7f0dc5.jpg

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140720_151404_zps99f49321.jpg

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140720_151415_zps022914cf.jpg

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140720_151428_zps783233c4.jpg

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140720_151444_zps85ae0eed.jpg

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140720_151455_zpsd98f5f14.jpg

I know I will need to replace the forward assist with a tear drop one for either my XM177E2 or Model 653.

PM is a contract replacement upper.  A lot were found on commercial builds in the 80s and they are rumored to be Elisco out of the Philippines.

Since the upper is black, you might as well build it on a black lower.

I agree. You might look at building a 723 clone. The later black A1 carbines have their charm too. Of course, you could pay for a tax stamp and build a 733... Personally, I dig grey rifles best.

Thanks for the advice.  After taking everything into consideration....I do believe I would rather build both of the carbine clones in Grey finish.  

I am sure I can get someone to re - finish my black upper and a black delta ring in Grey finish to somewhat match a Nodak lower.  

I am having problems finding a 11.5 inch pencil barrel though....

J&T has them, but if you are building a non-NFA XM177E2, you need about a 12.65" barrel - most guys use a 14.5" or 16" and have it cut down. Try J&T - they have pencil barrels, you can spec chrome lined, and everyone I've heard of who has one is very pleased with them. Adco or John Thomas can do the work. Just specify a minimum 16.1" length for legality.

Me too.

Early 723


Late 723

I am going to build a non-NFA XM177E2 for sure completely legal and with a 16.1 inch barrel.
I was wondering about the length of the barrel as well.

I want to get a moderator made my brick.  I have been told that a 11.5 inch barrel with one of bricks moderators blind pinned on will get me to legal length.
But I donot have either one yet to be able to test fit and see.

I have found another A1 upper.  This one has Colt forge codes and is grey.  So I can use this Colt one for my XM177E2  build.  I will post pictures of this second upper later on today.

Thanks

I must say, thats a very nice looking carbine.  )
Thanks for sharing.

Thank you and you are very welcome.

11.5" barrel will not get you there. Mine is 12.75" and the OAL (w/ grenade ring) is almost 16.25". I believe the minimum recommended length is 12.625". That length with the Brick's moderator and grenade ring pinned and welded is suppose to give you about the 16.1" OAL.

Quote History

Quoted:



I am going to build a non-NFA XM177E2 for sure completely legal and with a 16.1 inch barrel.
I was wondering about the length of the barrel as well.

I want to get a moderator made my brick.  I have been told that a [b]11.5 inch barrel with one of bricks moderators blind pinned on will get me to legal length.
But I donot have either one yet to be able to test fit and see.

I have found another A1 upper.  This one has Colt forge codes and is grey.  So I can use this Colt one for my XM177E2  build.  I will post pictures of this second upper later on today.

Thanks

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View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

J&T has them, but if you are building a non-NFA XM177E2, you need about a 12.65" barrel - most guys use a 14.5" or 16" and have it cut down. Try J&T - they have pencil barrels, you can spec chrome lined, and everyone I've heard of who has one is very pleased with them. Adco or John Thomas can do the work. Just specify a minimum 16.1" length for legality.

I am going to build a non-NFA XM177E2 for sure completely legal and with a 16.1 inch barrel.
I was wondering about the length of the barrel as well.

I want to get a moderator made my brick.  I have been told that a [b]11.5 inch barrel with one of bricks moderators blind pinned on will get me to legal length.
But I donot have either one yet to be able to test fit and see.

I have found another A1 upper.  This one has Colt forge codes and is grey.  So I can use this Colt one for my XM177E2  build.  I will post pictures of this second upper later on today.

Thanks

Negative, somebody is forgetting to subtract 5/8" (0.625") for thread engagement between the male and female threads.

Okay, so then I should just get a 12.5 inch lightweight barrel and have someone cut it down..........and add the brick moderator.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice.  I am going to take some pictures of my newer Colt upper and post them in a few.
S

The minimum length is 12.625", a 12.5 is already too short.

You will more than likely need to buy 16" pencil barrel and have it cut down to no less than 12.625" (12 5/8"). I preferred to have my barrel cut down to 12.75" just to give me an extra 1/8" of a buffer.

Darn, yea that's right......I meant to say a 16 inch barrel.  
I will look for a 16 inch pencil barrel and contact brick about getting a moderator with grenade ring.

Then find someone to cut the barrel and attach the moderator.  

Bricks moderator on GB

16" lightweight barrel from Model 1 Sales

I have two Model 1 light weight  barrels and they are .750 under the front sight base. It bothered me so I used them on C8 carbines.

Agree. Its(the Model 1 LW 16")  still pretty light and what not, as well as cheaply priced..but its also still fat at the gas block. Trained eyes scope it immediately. For a decent retro build, it would bug me. Having said that, I actually do currently have one installed on just that, an 1974 SP1 turned into a carbine. So it bugs me lol. I'd like to eventually replace it with a much better 11.5" JT light weight(which I already have one on another build in the below pic) with a perm installed Tonys Custom retro-ish one piece moderator replica(also in the below pic). =16.25".  Mainly because I already have one. Like this combo..(try to over look the pistol setup)


If you run the Brick moderator, and since you have to cut it anyway for the needed 12.5-ish length, go with the JT Dist LW 16", since its cheaper(then the 14.5"). Its the correct profile(.625 gas block) which to me is even more important then all the diff moderator small details among the diff choices avail. And is also priced well.

I mean, which is more accurate clone...a 12.5" barrel (which was never used on an XM anything) and the 4.4" Brick mod. Or a correct 11.5" length barrel with a slightly longer moderator replica? Neither is. Thats my point. ..or a fat gas blocked LW barrel for that matter. Its wrong too. So it comes down to the what the user can live with, short of the real thing of course.

I have the JT 14.5" version of it. Here...

http://jtdistributing.net/store/product1255.html
Pic is for barrel only. Of course we know the rifle has the wrong stock, color furniture, grip, A2 lower, trigger group, and A1x FH. Altho it does have a nice LM 603 upper I bought new 34yrs ago.


The end

I would go with a J&T barrel. I was NOT impressed by Model 1 sales CS the one time I contacted them years ago. Had trouble getting through, then she was rude. Fuck them - I give my money to people who deserve it.

I'm really liking that setup,

Okay,

Here is my other upper.  This is a real Colt I believe.
I plan on using this one for my Colt XM177E2 clone.  Along with the following.....

- Nodak Spud lower
- Pencil barrel (cut down)
- Brick moderator (perm attached to cut down barrel to make legal length)
- Nodak two pos. buffer tube
- Alum rear stock

Thats what I got figured out so far.  
Thanks for all that have helped and as always, any advice or guidance is much appreciated.

Now for some pictures of my Upper......

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140729_115259_zps08059c09.jpg
http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140729_115407_zpse406083c.jpg
http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140729_115355_zps571d328e.jpg
http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140729_115342_zps750ae5cd.jpg
http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140729_115327_zpsa7a9de09.jpg
http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae93/RaccoonRough/20140729_115314_zpsf13f955d.jpg

I dont know why my pictures turned up on their end.............they were not saved in photobucket like that??  

they look fine.  sometimes, you can turn them in photobucket but they are cached on your end but look fine to everyone else.