AR-10er is pretty much on target re the Costa Mesa AR-180 accessories. The qualifier is that I seriously doubt ArmaLite could of used any Colt marked accessories. I'm sure they could purchase the same accessories from the gvt contract mfgs but did so without Colt markings. All three models of the open top bipod pouch had no markings. I was interested in putting togeather what might of been the Costa Mesa AR-18 accessories and I feel I was mostly successful in accomplishing the goal using those listed in the AR-18 manual/broshures I have as a reference. The accessories are the same as those issued in 1964 for the Army AR15 with the open top bipod pouch, three section 8/32 knurled cleaning rod with brush and tip, as for the bipod I went with the first bipod that has no markings with two C clips. I also have another unmarked bipod that is riveted and could be a later ArmaLite bipod. There also was a split plastic oil bottle from the M-14, a period bayonet/sheath and the green web sling rounds it out. From the illustrations the web gear all appears to be the M1956 if you wanted to go down that road for mag pouches etc. Some of the items were probably changed as time went on as the early accessories were no longer available. From photos I'v seen of NIB Costa Mesa AR-180 the cleaning rod appears to be a four section knurled handle 8/32 cleaning rod.  The plastic bipod didn't show up until the Sterling AR-180 era, BigRix has photos on his AR180S.COM blog of all the Sterling accessories.

AR-10er is pretty much on target re the Costa Mesa AR-180 accessories. The qualifier is that I seriously doubt ArmaLite could of used any Colt marked accessories. I'm sure they could purchase the same accessories from the gvt contract mfgs but did so without Colt markings. All three models of the open top bipod pouch had no markings. I was interested in putting togeather what might of been the Costa Mesa AR-18 accessories and I feel I was mostly successful in accomplishing the goal using those listed in the AR-18 manual/broshures I have as a reference. The accessories are the same as those issued in 1964 for the Army AR15 with the open top bipod pouch with long cleaning rod pocket, three section 8/32 knurled handle cleaning rod with brush and tip, as for the bipod I went with the first bipod that has no markings with two C clips. I also have another unmarked bipod that is riveted and could be a later ArmaLite bipod. There also was a split plastic oil bottle from the M-14, a period bayonet/sheath and the green web sling rounds it out. From the illustrations the web gear all appears to be the M1956 if you wanted to go down that road for mag pouches etc. Some of the items were probably changed as time went on as the early accessories were no longer available. From photos I'v seen of NIB Costa Mesa AR-180 the cleaning rod appears to be a four section knurled handle 8/32 cleaning rod. The plastic bipod didn't show up until the Sterling AR-180 era, BigRix has photos on his AR180S.COM blog of all the Sterling accessories. PLEASE DELETE!

AR-10er is pretty much on target re the Costa Mesa AR-180 accessories. The qualifier is that I seriously doubt ArmaLite could of used any Colt marked accessories. I'm sure they could purchase the same accessories from the gvt contract mfgs but did so without Colt markings. All three models of the open top bipod pouch had no markings. I was interested in putting togeather what might of been the Costa Mesa AR-18 accessories and I feel I was mostly successful in accomplishing the goal using those listed in the AR-18 manual/broshures I have as a reference. The accessories are the same as those issued in 1964 for the Army AR15 with the open top bipod pouch with long cleaning rod pocket, three section 8/32 knurled handle cleaning rod with brush and tip, as for the bipod I went with the first bipod that has no markings with two C clips. I also have another unmarked bipod that is riveted and could be a later ArmaLite bipod. There also was a split plastic oil bottle from the M-14, a period bayonet/sheath and the green web sling rounds it out. From the illustrations the web gear all appears to be the M1956 if you wanted to go down that road for mag pouches etc. Some of the items were probably changed as time went on as the early accessories were no longer available. From photos I'v seen of NIB Costa Mesa AR-180 the cleaning rod appears to be a four section knurled handle 8/32 cleaning rod. The plastic bipod didn't show up until the Sterling AR-180 era, BigRix has photos on his AR180S.COM blog of all the Sterling accessories. PLEASE DELETE!

AR-10er is pretty much on target re the Costa Mesa AR-180 accessories. The qualifier is that I seriously doubt ArmaLite could of used any Colt marked accessories. I'm sure they could purchase the same accessories from the gvt contract mfgs but did so without Colt markings. All three models of the open top bipod pouch had no markings. I was interested in putting togeather what might of been the Costa Mesa AR-18 accessories and I feel I was mostly successful in accomplishing the goal using those listed in the AR-18 manual/broshures I have as a reference. The accessories are the same as those issued in 1964 for the Army AR15 with the open top bipod pouch with long cleaning rod pocket, three section 8/32 knurled handle cleaning rod with brush and tip, as for the bipod I went with the first bipod that has no markings with two C clips. I also have another unmarked bipod that is riveted and could be a later ArmaLite bipod. There also was a split plastic oil bottle from the M-14, a period bayonet/sheath and the green web sling rounds it out. From the illustrations the web gear all appears to be the M1956 if you wanted to go down that road for mag pouches etc. Some of the items were probably changed as time went on as the early accessories were no longer available. From photos I'v seen of NIB Costa Mesa AR-180 the cleaning rod appears to be a four section knurled handle 8/32 cleaning rod. The plastic bipod didn't show up until the Sterling AR-180 era, BigRix has photos on his AR180S.COM blog of all the Sterling accessories. PLEASE DELETE!

AR-10er is pretty much on target re the Costa Mesa AR-180 accessories. The qualifier is that I seriously doubt ArmaLite could of used any Colt marked accessories. I'm sure they could purchase the same accessories from gvt contract mfgs but did so without Colt markings. All three models of the open top bipod pouch had no markings. I was interested in putting togeather what might of been the Costa Mesa AR-18 accessories and I feel I was mostly successful in accomplishing the goal using those listed in the AR-18 manual/broshures I have as a reference. The accessories are the same as those issued in 1964 for the Army AR15 with the open top bipod pouch with long cleaning rod pocket, three section 8/32 knurled handle cleaning rod with brush and tip, as for the bipod I went with the first bipod that has no markings with two C clips. I also have another unmarked bipod that is riveted and could be a later ArmaLite bipod. There also was a split plastic oil bottle from the M-14, a period bayonet/sheath and the green web sling rounds it out. From the illustrations the web gear all appears to be the M1956 if you wanted to go down that road for mag pouches etc. Some of the items were probably changed as time went on as the early accessories were no longer available. From photos I'v seen of NIB Costa Mesa AR-180 the cleaning rod appears to be a four section knurled handle 8/32 cleaning rod and later used with the Howa AR-180. The plastic bipod didn't show up until the Sterling AR-180 era, BigRix has photos on his AR180S.COM blog of all the Sterling accessories. PLEASE DELETE!

Am I seeing QUADRUPLE, or what?

 


The quintuple-tap!



His disconnector is worn out and the hammer is following the post-bolt home.

FAIL x's FOUR.

Are the "Howa" marked 20 round alloy mags the most rare AR180 mags?

They are certainly some of the most desirable which increases the price.

I'm sure some of Rich's toolroom mags are much rarer. How the numbers stack up next to the 30 round ArmaLite mags is something I have not been able to  ascertain.

I see the 30 round mags up for sale more often but that is not the best way to determine rarity.

I promise only one shot this time instead of a four round burst. Hats off to M16indiana for his bipod and pouch thread. To answer his earlier question re what bipod ArmaLite used I actually checked the photos in my AR-18 manual and broshures. With a magnifying glass one of the photos was detailed enough to show a bipod with a rivet head on one side, anyones guess as to what was on the other side and if there were any markings. I doubt there is a definitive answer today as to the actual accessories sold for the Costa Mesa AR-18/180 rifles. BigRix  is correct that the Howa 20rd alloy mags show up a lot less than the Costa Mesa and Sterling mags. One possibility is that ArmaLite only made one run of Howa mags and they still had a substantial number of Costa Mesa 20rd alloy mags on hand and sent those mags to anyone requesting additional mags for their Howa AR-180. I'd rank the 30rd parkerized steel mags as the rarest, originally intended for LE and military sales but also sold to civilians. If you were lucky enough to have one of these 30rd mags along with the milspec polykraft wrapper I'd say you hit the jackpot since most of the wrappers got tossed or lost over the years. Maybe BigRix could post a photo of the 30rd mag and wrapper I sent him.

In the last two years I have found three of the Costa Mesa 30 round mags at gun shows (all for $10 or less - it helps that they are unmarked).  I have also seen every flavor of Sterling steel mags (20, 30 & 40) and Sterling & Costa Mesa alloy mags for sale.  However, I have not seen any Howa mags offered for sale. I think Kobren is probably right, that they just made one run of the Howa mags - possibly just one each to go with the Howa AR180's.  I really wish that I could have added some AR180 info in my bipod thread, but with no evidence, it would have just been speculation.  I added unmarked bipods to my 180's, which I think is the most appropriate way to go.

The reason I based my allegation of only one run of Howa 20rd mags is that it appears there was at least two runs of the Costa Mesa 20rd mags as seen in the differing rivets and finishes on the mags and floorplates as BigRix has pointed out. They probably shipped most of the Howa AR-180 with two Howa mags, it might of been the Sterling AR-180 that shipped with only one 20rd alloy mag. Your good luck at purchasing the 30rd mags so cheaply is due to few people have a clue as to what they are. Likewise for the bipod I'v also settled on either the first unmarked bipod with two C clips or the unmarked rivet bipod with no C clips. This is no right or wrong territory unless we can come up with some hard info from original documents, photos, ArmaLite employees or very reliable original owners both well up in years.

My AR-180 score today::  11 Colt 20's professionally converted for use in the AR-180, and 3 excellent condition Costa Mesa full curve 30 round mags, all for $100.  I didn't even try to talk him down on his price, lol.

I doubt that seller was a regular reader/member of AR15.COM or any other firearms related site to sell all those mags for $100, that today wouldn't even cover the cost of having the eleven 20rd Colt mags professionally converted for use in the AR-180.

Excellent score, especially on the Costa Mesa mags. FB, gun show, private listing?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Sometimes.....just sometimes.....I hate my fellow Arfcomers.

Smokin' deal. Congrats!

Military show.  I also managed to pick up an early 1967 SP1, a 601 green handled Colt Armalite bayonet, and a rubberized Air Force two cell mag pouch!

Gun show find today:





The scope and mount was $395 and the lens cover was $25.  The best thing about it was that I stopped at a casino on the way to the gun show and won $530, so the scope was really free.

Excellent M16Indianaersomethinorother..... Can I just call you M16?

The seller knew he had something though as I would not have paid much more for that. But then I am a little biased. Had one many years ago, think the scope bases jumps a little during seating? Because in 5 round groups, I did not find it any more accurate than my own eyes and the iron sights. Granted, this was years ago before glasses and a general downward spiral of my outward appearance.


As to the steel Costa Mesa 30 round mags. Those are like being on an Easter Egg hunt and finding the egg with the money inside. It is fun, because as stated, MOST sellers have NO idea what they are holding....only those on GB that are seeking crazy prices....they may get one day....many years from now..... after I am dead and gone.

My most wanted accessory for any of my 180s is a full "Sharpshooters Kit" which is simply the neoprene hand guard cover and butt stock cover. I have a buttstock cover that came on my very clean Howa, but did not have the hand guard piece. I rarely see them, like almost never, in the last 37 years.


Recently, there has been a guy selling a Sterling that is blinged out here in South Florida. I hate the rifle and he is asking I think $1600, which is high for a later model Sterling. Someone gold plated some of the smaller pieces and high gloss blued or blacked the rest of the rifle, trying to make it look like one of those AR-15 Viet Nam Commemoratives from the 80s but it is really fugly. BUT, it has the Sharpshooters kit on it and it is in decent shape too! I tried to get him to go for 1200, figuring I would break the rifle down and sell off the upper, lower or parts, but no dice. He is sticking with his price. I have seen it 3 times now on the circuit and it is killing me. Even asked him if he would sell off the neoprene, but no deal. I just can't get myself to go the 1600 for a blinged out Sterling.






 

Actually, I think it was a great deal.  Standard Armalite scopes and mounts are currently selling on eBay and Gun Broker in the $500-$600 range.  This, however, is one of the first model scopes and mounts (marked in meters on the drum instead of yards) that was produced in 1967, and only 1000 of them were produced.  I have not yet seen one of these sell, but it is certainly worth more than a standard Armalite scope. Also, in the last twenty scopes I have seen (and I purchased four of them), this is only the second one that had scope covers.

wow nice gunshow find, never know whats going to turn up at a show

amengrifles  where in fl    Im not interested in the rifle but if another guy makes a similar offer the seller may start to reconsider,  Im in south west fl
pm me

M16indiana by all accounts you have been extremely lucky to even find and then pay such low prices for the magazines and now this first generation (1967) ArmaLite 2.75 inverted post scope marked in meters. IMO the sellers have to be totally clueless as to the current average prices for ArmaLite mags and scopes. I don't begrudge you making a score and I would of also jumped on those items at those prices. On the other hand those prices don't reflect what just about everyone else will pay under normal circumstances and I'v communicated with a large number of AR-180 owners who can attest to that. I'v sold (BIN/fixed price) thousands of dollars of my excess ArmaLite scopes, manuals and mags on GB and every buyer was thrilled with the item, the condition and also pleased with the price they payed which was very reasonable current average prices, buyers didn.t get ripped off and I made a few modest bucks over what I payed many years ago.

I picked up scope #670034 late last year for $395.  It is in 99%++ condition. No box though.  I consider myself blessed!

All you have to do is look at the numbers, first the AR-15 Hakko scopes, I estimate around 250,000 were mfg, next the number of ArmaLite AR-18/180 scopes that were mfg , my estimate is around 9,000. Based on those numbers, 25 to 1, I'd say the ArmaLite AR-18/180 scopes are probably undervalued today. Current average AR-15 Hakko scope prices $300-400, current average AR-18/180 Hakko scope prices $500-600 with both continually moving upwards.

Yes, I love the thrill of the hunt at the gun shows.  It's like a modern day treasure quest.  However, it seems that the more you know, the more treasure you can find, so it's a combination of luck & knowledge. It also seems that sellers know very little about AR180's.  I actually had a dealer lecturing me last weekend that AR180's were all originally full auto, but many had the full auto parts removed and the "0" ground off of the receiver so they are marked AR18, and THOSE are the only legal ones that can be owned.  I decided it wasn't worth my time to try to correct him, so I just said "OK, thanks fir the info".
.     Another good example of "luck & treasure", happened to me last month.  I went to a big military show in Louisville looking for retro Colt items.  I searched the entire show, and only came up with an Air Force waffle mag pouch (the seller thought it was an m1 carbine mag pouch).  I decided to ask a knife dealer if he had seen any "green handled" m16 bayonets.  He replied "yeah, I've got one here in the case".  I had searched the entire show, but had somehow missed seeing it, and I asked the one person who had one.  It's in awesome shape, and I snagged  the Colt Armalite green handled 601 bayonet & scabbard for only $600.

Anyone have any detailed drawing to share?

That is an odd first post.  A detailed drawing of what?

fishing for class 3 prints  what else would a guy with one post be asking for

Shorty/Pistol build #2 is in the works

Kind of outside the main theme, but since the loss of the AR-180 forum, this thread is as good as any to post in;

Got to handle my buddies Bushmaster ACR yesterday, for those that never followed the magpul masada debacle in the old PDF ad for it, they cited the AR-18(0) as one of the key inspirations for it.

It was neat to pull the guts out and see what sorts of features carried over (Lot of stuff from the BCG)


Makes me a little sad that Armalite (new one) pulled out of the AR-180_ they had been talking about on here.

Looks great!

 

I was offered $750 for one of my two Armalite scopes last week. I turned it down.

Granite Climber I'v been watching the prices of the Colt/Hakko 3x20 and 4x20 scopes rise over the past 2-3 years from $200 to $400 so I don't doubt that the far fewer ArmaLite AR18/180 scopes, I estimate 9,000, would also jump significantly in price from the average of $500 they had been selling for in years past. I don't have a solid number of Colt scopes but if I had to guess it would be in the range of 250,000 that were mfg by Hakko. Either way in proportion to the number of rifles the Colt and ArmaLite scopes will continue to command a premium price.

Well thanks to some constant prodding I joined the club

She's completely unfired so now i'm almost reluctant to take her out and shoot her.



thanks Rix!

Nice! I really wish I could find a cheap Geneseo rifle

You keep showing the damn carbine and I have to keep resisting buying a cheap Sterling to convert. Its getting harder all the time.

If that SN is something like sn 077X ...I hate you.  That's my old AR-180.....I sold it, like a fool, to fund other projects.





Great...now I hate ME!!!!!!!!
Pic of it back in the day.






 

Not yours so you can rest easy.

I did double check the serial number and it looks like I have been wrong all this time. I thought it was S0645 but it is actually S0545.

That third digit is stamped kind of lightly.

Mock up of my 180B upper on an original lower.

They don't currently mate up and no, I did not make an illegal SBR.





I got this lower stripped at the SAR West show and only recently came across most of the parts I need to complete it.

If it runs with one of my rifle uppers I am sending off for a stamp.

More details in my latest blog post. AR180S.com

Dude!  That's even earlier than mine was!!! These are incredibly awesome guns as you know.  It's a real shame that the new Armalite cheaped out on the B model.



Glad to see some serious AR-180 fans in here!!!!

Suggestions on shorty AR18 pseudo-retro build?

I had been almost totally set on building a Colt 601 clone all year, but just the other day I was in the dentist chair and had my music on to distract me, and listened to a bunch of Irish rebel songs, so all of a sudden I've turned and am seriously considering an "Armalite" build.

Here are my initial thoughts, any input on how feasible/unaffordable any of the follow would be? What I'm envisioning is a legal-length (non-SBR for travel reasons) shorty AR18-type, something that looks like it was cobbled together in a garage in County Antrim in 1973 would be totally fine, so long as it operates well.

- AR180B lower receiver from NoDak Spud
- the upper receiver is the tricky bit; I really don't want to buy a full AR180B just to scrap 80% of it. Is there anyone making AR18 uppers right now, or do I need to sniff around the EE for someone who's hoarded some AR18 flats and buy those to send to the gunsmith to origami?
- decent drop-in AR trigger with retro external appearance (those tend to fit the 180B receiver, right?)
- get an untapped 1:8 Wylde chamber 14.5+1.5 AR barrel and have it tapped for the piston assembly; my understanding is that someone with the right jigs for the trunion and all can install a 15 barrel on an 18 receiver easy.
- some 1.5" muzzle device that looks vaguely retro, but can take some popular cans (I have other suppressors but no .223 yet, will eventually buy one)
- buy all needed small parts for gas system and receiver from Armalite directly, except for a more classic charging handle, etc.
- get a beat-up AR18 handguard and cut it down short for the barrel length, or possibly find the most minimalist swiss-cheese tube handguard from an AR15 and repurpose it
- for the buttstock, I'm torn between a traditional-looking one (though they seem slightly long and I'm really short), or get an ACE Entry Stock since they look vaguely FAL-ish and to the untrained eye seem old-school. Alternately, the wild idea I think would be fun is to somehow rig up a collapsing wire stock, something like the Daewoo had. I think a HK assembly will be too heavy and has that big blocky joint, but there have to be AR PDW stocks that can be rigged to fit, though the AR18 has slightly irregular sides due to the bumps in the receiver so might need to have the rods slightly further apart.

How ridiculous and/or cool of an idea is this? Would it cost an absolute fortune or is it not at all hard to source? I don't have technical skills sufficient to build things that capture explosions next to my face, so I'd be looking for a decent AR18-capable gunsmith to cobble it together, though I realize that adds cost too. But if it's not any more insane than hiring someone to do an HK parts-build, I might well be down to do some hiring out.

Thought of an even better Retro example to vaguely inform this AR18 build I'm envisioning:



French MAT-49 subgun. If I can assemble an AR18 to look vaguely along these lines, with a collapsible wire stock, and potentially a waffled metal shroud vice classic handguard (though I'm open to the classic handguard too) that'd be amazing. Still want to keep it 16+ inches, but I figured a permanently-affixed FS will still keep it pretty short, and with a fully-collapsible stock it'll still be notably shorter than an M4gery.

Saw BigRix folding stock back on page 11; though a collapsing stock would be me priority, something like this could be awesome. Is this a VZ stock, or what is it?




I saw NDS mention that they're gradually working up an AR180 upper, with Picatinny rail (which personally I don't want) but no idea how long off that is. The cool thing is that the NDS upper will have a trunnion designed to accept standard AR barrels, awesome stuff. Still trying to figure out a good source for uppers, and I just pinged Retro Gun Works to see if they're interested in doing such a build. If they are I just need to source an untapped barrel, and get an engraver to put retro Armalite markings on the upper.

Okay, NDS has no current plans to build an upper because GunLabs is close to offering uppers. How do I go about contacting GunLabs guys? On their blog there's just space to post replies, not a company email.

If I can get an upper and a lower and LPK, are upper parts (bolt system, gas-piston system) reasonably available or a really hard haul? Would I still be best off considering getting a full used AR180B and selling off most of its parts and just keeping the upper and upper parts?

To say GunLabs is "close to offering upper" is to strong of a statement.

It is in the early planing stages. It will also not look like an AR180 upper so it would not really fit your plans.

I would build in from a steel tube ar buy a 180B and use it for parts.

I'm keeping "buy an AR180B and scrap 2/3 of it" as a backup option, but if I can find a sheet steel receiver that'd be awesome (and could get it engraved with pseudo-retro markings), though I'd still need to track down the other upper parts. I had little luck googling, is there anyone who might stock AR180 flats? Or is putting a WTB on the EE here my best way to find an upper?

ETA: setting aside price for a moment, quality-wise is there any reason to get a upper flat and spare parts instead of a AR180B? Or is the upper, piston, gas tube, bolt, etc. of the 180B just as good as anything else I'm likely to hunt down? I suppose if I find a good price on a used one, it won't be too inefficient to sell off the parts other than the upper assembly. Plus in the short term I can shoot it as-is to make sure I enjoy it enough to put work into it.

I built a 180 lower from a puzzle piece AR-15 lower that takes standard AR-15 mags and the FCG for a orphaned 180 upper I picked up...



Also a upper that take a AR-15 barrel and extension...
It's been put back in the box until I get a TIG welder to finish it up...



Building on from scratch isn't all that easy but it can be done in a home shop...

Was the lower from The Flat Spot?