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Posted: 11/21/2015 11:59:44 AM EDT
[#1]
M16indiana re photos of the ArmaLite 4x20 scopes BigRix should have some. As of today BigRix blog AR180S.COM is the best source of info re the AR-18/180 rifles. Rick is very busy with his occupation and family but if anyone is capable of writing "The Other Black Rifle" Rick would be the one to do it when he gets the time. With the contributions of info from AR-15, AR180S members and with new documents coming to light a very accurate picture of the rifles and accessories can be shared with the firearms community.
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Posted: 11/21/2015 12:22:32 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 11/22/2015 2:55:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will get more detailed photos of the mags and scope. The flash hider looks like an M16A1 to me. Pictures I have seen of other Costa Mesa guns have a 4 prong I think. Serial is S0645. I have seen a post that seems to indicate that all Costa Mesa guns were made in 1969 and others that say 69-72. What would the correct bipod for this gun look like? This thread on the S&W forum has a lot of good info. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifles/269239-range-photos-armalite-180-a.html Interesting thread. I have a Sterling that I bought years ago. Great shooter, but not very robust. Of course, the M16 wasn't either, at first. Original mags that came with the gun would have been black, 20-round, look like 20-rd AR/M16 mags but no bump and catch slot cut on the "wrong" side. Stoner might fit, but no bipod was ever designed for this gun. Light weight, folding stock - not meant as a standard infantry gun. They made some scopes, but as noted they are very rare and were probably only made as part of a "system" for the sales reps to show prospective buyers. Yes, after Armalite sold the AR-15 to Colt the AR-18 was designed as a better alternative for foreign sales - but the Soviets started giving away AKs by the millions, which killed the 18. There was an AR-16 in .308 but it never even saw the light of day except as a handful of prototypes. Finally, yours does have the wrong flash hider. I bought some spares from Numrich a dozen or so years ago; I may still have a couple in a box somewhere. PM if you need one and we can work something out. |
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Posted: 11/22/2015 3:24:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Does anyone know what the little bump on the front leg of AE180 front sight assemblies is for? They seem to be grooved on both sides, so I'm thinking possibly for the attachment of a grenade launching sight? Thanks.
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Posted: 11/22/2015 7:05:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Toying with the idea of getting a 180B to modify and play with. I just don't like the stock options. What's a folding option that looks "right" and doesn't have an awkward mechanism?
And, because I can:  |
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Posted: 11/23/2015 12:06:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Nice HAC-7 you have there!
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Posted: 11/23/2015 5:44:16 PM EDT
[#8]
M16iandiana I checked my AR-18 brochure/manual and it states that only a grenade cartridge is required, the flash hider serves as the grenade launcher, no accessories needed. Photo in the brochure shows 5.56 grenade launcher blanks and 75mm practice grenade. List of grenade types available, 75mm HE/AT range 200m, 62mm 2.5" anti tank range 260m and 55mm 2.2" anti-personnel range 300m.
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Posted: 11/23/2015 8:43:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone know what the little bump on the front leg of AE180 front sight assemblies is for? They seem to be grooved on both sides, so I'm thinking possibly for the attachment of a grenade launching sight? Thanks. I have always thought that it was either for a sight cover or a night sight. I have never found out what it was for though. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 8:17:07 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone know what the little bump on the front leg of AE180 front sight assemblies is for? They seem to be grooved on both sides, so I'm thinking possibly for the attachment of a grenade launching sight? Thanks. The stud on the front sight base was originally designed for attachment of a grenade launcher sight. However, during testing of the AR-18 by the US military there was an incident which brought the launching of grenades to a halt. One of the test rifles suffered a collapse of the stock/hinge assembly while launching a grenade. This resulted in sever injury to the hand/arm of the individual involved. Armalite internal documents after this incident state that the AR-18 platform should not be marketed as a platform for the launching of grenades. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 1:25:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The stud on the front sight base was originally designed for attachment of a grenade launcher sight. However, during testing of the AR-18 by the US military there was an incident which brought the launching of grenades to a halt. One of the test rifles suffered a collapse of the stock/hinge assembly while launching a grenade. This resulted in sever injury to the hand/arm of the individual involved. Armalite internal documents after this incident state that the AR-18 platform should not be marketed as a platform for the launching of grenades. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know what the little bump on the front leg of AE180 front sight assemblies is for? They seem to be grooved on both sides, so I'm thinking possibly for the attachment of a grenade launching sight? Thanks. The stud on the front sight base was originally designed for attachment of a grenade launcher sight. However, during testing of the AR-18 by the US military there was an incident which brought the launching of grenades to a halt. One of the test rifles suffered a collapse of the stock/hinge assembly while launching a grenade. This resulted in sever injury to the hand/arm of the individual involved. Armalite internal documents after this incident state that the AR-18 platform should not be marketed as a platform for the launching of grenades. I would love to find out what docs you are referring to and who might have copies I could study. I'm currently trying to find a copy of Ballistic Research Laboratory, Aberdeen Proving Ground, A Kinematic Evaluation of the AR-18 Rifle |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 4:56:13 PM EDT
[#12]
BigRix, I will try to find you some documentation on this. I know I kept a copy.
The AR-18 was also tested by the Army at Fort Benning Ga. about 1967. It was also tested by US Air Force about the same time. Perhaps you can locate some documents from these tests also. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 11:21:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would love to find out what docs you are referring to and who might have copies I could study. I'm currently trying to find a copy of Ballistic Research Laboratory, Aberdeen Proving Ground, A Kinematic Evaluation of the AR-18 Rifle Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know what the little bump on the front leg of AE180 front sight assemblies is for? They seem to be grooved on both sides, so I'm thinking possibly for the attachment of a grenade launching sight? Thanks. The stud on the front sight base was originally designed for attachment of a grenade launcher sight. However, during testing of the AR-18 by the US military there was an incident which brought the launching of grenades to a halt. One of the test rifles suffered a collapse of the stock/hinge assembly while launching a grenade. This resulted in sever injury to the hand/arm of the individual involved. Armalite internal documents after this incident state that the AR-18 platform should not be marketed as a platform for the launching of grenades. I would love to find out what docs you are referring to and who might have copies I could study. I'm currently trying to find a copy of Ballistic Research Laboratory, Aberdeen Proving Ground, A Kinematic Evaluation of the AR-18 Rifle https://www.smallarmsreview.com/search/pdfdmp.cfm?docid=806.pdf https://www.smallarmsreview.com/search/pdfdmp.cfm?docid=834.pdf https://www.smallarmsreview.com/search/pdfdmp.cfm?docid=805.pdf |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 9:15:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know what the little bump on the front leg of AE180 front sight assemblies is for? They seem to be grooved on both sides, so I'm thinking possibly for the attachment of a grenade launching sight? Thanks. The stud on the front sight base was originally designed for attachment of a grenade launcher sight. However, during testing of the AR-18 by the US military there was an incident which brought the launching of grenades to a halt. One of the test rifles suffered a collapse of the stock/hinge assembly while launching a grenade. This resulted in sever injury to the hand/arm of the individual involved. Armalite internal documents after this incident state that the AR-18 platform should not be marketed as a platform for the launching of grenades. I would love to find out what docs you are referring to and who might have copies I could study. I'm currently trying to find a copy of Ballistic Research Laboratory, Aberdeen Proving Ground, A Kinematic Evaluation of the AR-18 Rifle https://www.smallarmsreview.com/search/pdfdmp.cfm?docid=806.pdf https://www.smallarmsreview.com/search/pdfdmp.cfm?docid=834.pdf https://www.smallarmsreview.com/search/pdfdmp.cfm?docid=805.pdf Thanks, I have downloaded those before but switched computers and could not find them again. I am however looking for docs from the earlier round of tests the military did in 64-65. I was able to find that all three of those docs you linked refer to one of the docs I am looking for. BRL (Ballistics Research Laboratory) Memorandum No. 1635 (This doc appears to have left off the "1" and refers to No. 635, the other two use 1635) "A Kinematic Evaluation of the AR18 Rifle, Cal 0.223" dated February 1965 Here is a pic with some of the docs I am looking for. 
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Posted: 11/25/2015 9:22:07 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 11/25/2015 3:06:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Rick I think I can answer your question re the difference between the two Howa floorplates. The floorplate on the Howa mag you used to own is the "standard" one for the 20rd Howa mag. The Howa floorplate from the auction is the same style as used on the unmarked floorplates of the ArmaLite 30rd parkerized steel magazine. I can only guess that ArmaLite made up a small number of these Howa floorplates for the 30rd parkerized steel mags but when the Howa AR-18/180 was blocked from export they were shelved and ArmaLite instead went with the blank 30rd floorplates. You should be able to make the comparison with your 30rd parkerized steel mags. Another ArmaLite AR-18/180 oddity to add to the list.
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Posted: 11/25/2015 6:52:17 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/26/2015 4:40:14 PM EDT
[#18]
I checked the drawing of ArmaLites 30rd magazine, sorry to say it only gives a side view and not a view of the bottom of the magazine showing the floorplate, it's dated Oct 3, 1966. This date would coincide with the intended Howa mfg of AR-18 rifles. Also I checked the Parts List dated Jan 1973 for the 30rd magazine, it lists the floorplate #2692 having a change "C". I doubt this 30rd floorplate is a reproduction and more likely a limited run ArmaLite "shop" prototype that never went into full production.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 7:36:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Bumping thread so it doesn't die.
Carry on. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 7:45:24 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm pretty sure that Armalite stamping is correct.
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Posted: 12/23/2015 11:55:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Re the vintage ArmaLite AR-18/180 rifles so far I havn't run into or seen photos of anything that could be considered reproductions like we see occasionally for the AR-15 rifles. It's only been the last couple of years that there has been renewed interest in the ArmaLite rifles. I'm realistic enough to realize that some owners made modifications to their rifles and accessories and by the looks of it from ArmaLites parts list they offered some options if requested as in scopes and mounts. No doubt like the AR-15 there were rare experimental and shop items that pop up. I doubt anyone would go to the trouble of making a one off of a floorplate and use a 30rd floorplate instead of a 20rd floorplate, this is the first one I'v seen. From the photos I saw on GB the 20rd Howa mag had been well used showing a lot of wear and the close up photo of the floorplate wasn't very sharp. My rule of thumb is until proven otherwise any of these questionable items are very likely real and I wouldn't hesitate to buy them for my collection.
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Posted: 12/23/2015 12:04:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Has anyone ever seen an AR18/180 waffle magazine, or 25 round magazine? I once saw an early M16 waffle mag that was modified to fit the AR18/180, and I know a member on here that has an AR15 25 round magazine that was factory modified to also fit the AR18/180. But has anyone ever seen either a waffle or a 25 round mag that was ONLY CUT for the AR18/180?
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Posted: 12/23/2015 1:23:34 PM EDT
[#23]
M16Indiana I havn't ever seen the early Colt mags you mentioned that were also modified to fit the AR-18/180 but it's very possible a few could exist. The reason I say that is that I was fortunate along with another AR-15 member many years ago to split the purchase of six "shop" mags that were originally purchased from John McGerty, ArmaLites production manager, when he was shutting down the ArmaLite Costa Mesa facility. Two of the mags were 20rd Colt mags that were converted for the AR-18/180, the third mag was a labeled 20rd Howa "test"mag. No doubt the ArmaLite designers who were involved with the AR-15 had access to many of those early items and later used some of them in the development of the AR-18. Check BigRix AR180S.COM blog for photos of my ArmaLite "shop" mags.
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Posted: 1/16/2016 10:08:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Which Srerling AR180 is the most desirable, and/or rare? I'm referring to the painted (stoved) finish, the parkerized finish, or the blued finish? I'm only going to add one to the collection, and I am trying to decide which variety to try and find. Thanks.
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Posted: 1/16/2016 10:40:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Japan Howa I would say that's my Holly Grail
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Posted: 1/16/2016 10:52:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Japan Howa I would say that's my Holly Grail Thanks for responding, but I am asking ONLY about the Sterling varieties |
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Posted: 1/16/2016 11:09:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Parkerized Sterling rifles are quite rare. Just be sure it wasn't refinished.
I have not been able to get pics of one for my web site yet, but I'm always on the lookout. One of our members here posted pics of his but pulled them after I and probably half the retro heads on this site tried to buy it from him. Then there is are the Sterling AR-18 rifles, very few of them and only one Sterling AR-18S that I have heard is in the country. |
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Posted: 1/16/2016 11:30:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Parkerized Sterling rifles are quite rare. Just be sure it wasn't refinished. I have not been able to get pics of one for my web site yet, but I'm always on the lookout. One of our members here posted pics of his but pulled them after I and probably half the retro heads on this site tried to buy it from him. Then there is are the Sterling AR-18 rifles, very few of them and only one Sterling AR-18S that I have heard is in the country. OK, so the parkerized is realistically out of the question. So, which is more valuable/rare, the black painted or the blued Sterlings? Thanks. |
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Posted: 1/16/2016 11:39:17 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 1/17/2016 2:02:49 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 1/17/2016 2:24:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://<a href="http://s890.photobucket.com/user/braceyourself/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_121627709_HDR.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac103/braceyourself/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_121627709_HDR.jpg</a> http://<a href="http://s890.photobucket.com/user/braceyourself/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_124826.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac103/braceyourself/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_124826.jpg</a> I just got this today. 1 20 rnd. mag 2 30 rnd. mags 1 40 rnd. mag Nice!!! Welcome to the sub-1k Howa club! 
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Posted: 1/17/2016 2:32:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Nice Braceman. Does it have a serial numbered flash hider?
I would welcome pics of the underside of the upper where they modified the ears. |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 4:37:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://<a href="http://s890.photobucket.com/user/braceyourself/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_121627709_HDR.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac103/braceyourself/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_121627709_HDR.jpg</a> http://<a href="http://s890.photobucket.com/user/braceyourself/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_124826.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac103/braceyourself/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_124826.jpg</a> I just got this today. 1 20 rnd. mag 2 30 rnd. mags 1 40 rnd. mag OG Howa. Nice! Are you familiar with this variant and were looking for one or did you luck into it? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 4:54:30 PM EDT
[#34]
I have been looking for one for a short time. I really just wanted a shooter grade.
I was at the local gun show this morning and saw it. The guy was asking $1800 for it . I got it for $1500. I dont know if i paid too much, but i am happy 
I will post some more pics. later. The flash hider does have serial numbers on it. |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 4:57:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been looking for one for a short time. I really just wanted a shooter grade. I was at the local gun show this morning and saw it. The guy was asking $1800 for it . I got it for $1500. I dont know if i paid too much, but i am happy
I will post some more pics. later. The flash hider does have serial numbers on it. Considering what mags go for I think ya done good 
Are the two 30rd mags steel / full curve like this? |
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Posted: 1/17/2016 5:56:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been looking for one for a short time. I really just wanted a shooter grade. I was at the local gun show this morning and saw it. The guy was asking $1800 for it . I got it for $1500. I dont know if i paid too much, but i am happy
I will post some more pics. later. The flash hider does have serial numbers on it. Cool, spend some time going through this thread. The first 1000 Howas are a neat batch. All kinds of variances in and of themselves. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/18/2016 9:58:57 AM EDT
[#37]
It's funny, I went to the gun show this weekend looking for a Sterling, and I FOUND this minty blued Sterling. I thought it was a good buy for $650. He had four extra Armalite marked mags for $50 each, and I snagged them as well. The weird thing about the mags, is that three of them look like they have a shiny blued finish (yes, I know you can't blue aluminum) that is wearing to purple. The other two mags look like they were factory painted black. Has anyone else seen the blue/purple variety of magazine? Thanks.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 11:07:20 AM EDT
[#38]
I have some of the purple mags. A buddy of mine saw them and told me he used to have a Sterling AR-180 that the whole rifle had the purple finish. I've never seen one, but I would like to!
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Posted: 1/18/2016 3:17:28 PM EDT
[#39]
I still can't believe that, given their scarcity compared to SP1's, how relatively inexpensive they are - even the rare varieties.
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Posted: 1/18/2016 3:29:07 PM EDT
[#40]
What gun show did you get that at?
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Posted: 1/18/2016 4:15:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac103/braceyourself/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_121627709_HDR.jpg http://http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac103/braceyourself/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160117_124826.jpg I just got this today. 1 20 rnd. mag 2 30 rnd. mags 1 40 rnd. mag  |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:22:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Braceman you did an excellent deal on your early 1,000 numbered Howa AR-180, the rail and three extra mags if all factory ArmaLite amount to $400 if purchased individually. The sling isn't original but it shouldn't be difficult or costly to replace it with the correct period USGI sling, plenty of photo examples on here.
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:43:13 PM EDT
[#43]
M16indiana you also walked away with a great deal on the blued finish Sterling AR-180 and mags. As for the mags with the purple tint to the finish good chance these were some of the mags sold by Gun Parts Corp., I had a few Sterling 20rd alloy mags that looked the same. I'v seen AR-15 mags pictured here on AR-15 that also had a purple tint that was probably caused by less than ideal long term storage conditions, likewise this is probably what happened to the Sterling mags that weren't stored in air tight bags.
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:47:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Braceman you did an excellent deal on your early 1,000 numbered Howa AR-180, the rail and three extra mags if all factory ArmaLite amount to about $400 if purchased individually. Looks like unplugged/unmolested bayo lugs too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/19/2016 2:50:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still can't believe that, given their scarcity compared to SP1's, how relatively inexpensive they are - even the rare varieties. Well, you did steal that rifle, almost literally. ;-) Probably one of the better, brag worthy, 'scores' you will have in your life. I'd say you paid almost half the going rate for what you got. ETA: I saw an excellent condition Sterling marked at $1400 at a show this past fall. Good hinge and functioning BHO. If I was in the market and could have talked it down to $1200, I would have bought it. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 1:13:47 AM EDT
[#46]
M16Indiana, nice rifle. I WAS going to say that I have never seen a parkerized Sterling EXCEPT for once and I am pretty sure it was a finished applied by some owner at some point, because the later model, blued Sterlings can vary from nice looking, like yours, to really awful. Since the blueing starts out thin, it doesn't take much handling and wear before they start to show it.
The mags you have are ALL the Sterling produced aluminum mag. They used what appears to be a softer grade of aluminum from the earlier Costa Mesa type, which are generally silver anodized like M-16 20 rounders. The feed lips of those Sterling 20's wear quickly and the mag bodies get deep grooves where the mag latch drags across them. They also "bleach out" which is what gives you that purple hue. Solvents and even sunshine fade them to that purple. I have NO idea if M-16 aluminum mags are heat treated or they just start with a harder material. The earlier silver 180 20 rounders hold up as well as any G.I. contract M-16 20 rounder. Same same to me. My preference (excuse my directness) is the stoving black Sterlings. I have one that is about as brand new as one could expect. The barrels are left in parkerizing, but all other metal surfaces are painted black. An aside is that I have yet to see a Costa Mesa, even with clean receivers, have a barrel that does not look like it was put into a tumble dryer with a bunch of metal parts and run for 30 minutes!? I have no idea WHY the Costa Mesa exhibit this feature on the forward barrel sections. I have yet to see a Costa Mesa with a really clean, like new barrel finish in parkerizing. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 1:21:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/Iron_Airship/180u2.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/Iron_Airship/180u1.jpg Here's Howa 29X. It has one ear 
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Posted: 1/28/2016 1:27:03 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ONE ear is better than NO ear! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/Iron_Airship/180u2.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y236/Iron_Airship/180u1.jpg Here's Howa 29X. It has one ear It's the Van Gough of my gun collection
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Posted: 2/4/2016 12:33:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Does anyone know what the "correct" bipod is for the AR-180? Is it just the standard M16 metal bipod, or the plastic bipod that I recall seeing in Armalite literature? Thanks.
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Posted: 2/4/2016 11:19:27 AM EDT
[#50]
The AR-18/180 was designed by Armalite to use the same accessories then in use for the AR-15. So to answer your question, an AR-180 from 1969 would use a bipod from the same era. I have seen photos of early AR-18's about 1965 using the early bipod with open top case.
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