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4/25/2017 7:42:44 PM
Posted: 11/26/2012 3:19:23 PM EDT
I've been fooling around with the M96 lately, and I think I'm going to tackle a belt feed conversion for it. It'll probably take a year or two, but I REALLY want to do this.
I'm just getting into welding and metal fabrication, so it'll no doubt be a trial and error kind of project. If I can nail down a decent design, and figure a way to keep cost down on production, I just may try to make a run of them someday.

Every time the M96 comes up, not only on arfcom, but elsewhere as well, someone brings up the belt fed conversion that never happened. I have always thought it would be ultra cool to have one, so I'm gonna make one!

The rifle is pretty well suited for a belt fed upper. If you flip the receiver like you would to install the 'Bren' kit, and leave the mag well off, you have a perfect space to fit a feed tray, and ample space for a top cover.

The only way it will work with no modifications to the factory rifle, however, is if it feeds from the left side, like the M249/M240. The Stoner M63 LMG fed from the right. So it won't be Stoner accurate in that regard, but I can get past that.

By flipping the receiver, the charger is on the right, and the ejection port is on the left. So ejected shells will eject down and at about 10 o'clock. Not thinking that will be a problem.

Also by flipping the receiver, the barrel and gas tube will be flipped also, so a new inverted gas block will have to be made as well so the front sight will be upright.

I am thinking of retrofitting as much of the M249 feed system as possible, and use M27 links for the ammo. I'll probably build the conversion around the M249 top cover in general. I wish there were ample Stoner kits out there, but that's never gonna happen, so the M249 seems like a good platform to adapt.

I'll get into pics soon, so you guys can see progress and ideas. I'm gonna need some input and help from the hive I'm sure. So stay tuned!
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 3:45:34 PM EDT
The early Stoner 63's were belt fed from the left, they also eject to the left sometimes causing jams. Later Stoner 63's were fed from the right to overcome the possibility of a jam. So from a historical perspective, you are GTG.

Good luck with your project, sounds awesome.
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 4:25:39 PM EDT
The M249 top cover is way too long, you will need a need roller track that is considerably shorter. But it might make for a good start point.

You aren't the only guy with this idea...hence why I have one too.
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 4:30:25 PM EDT
Tagging for updates
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 5:02:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2012 5:04:21 PM EDT by jm0502]
Enough with the side projects. Im already behind, still need a ithica 12ga , looking for a S&W, just bought a m60 bipod, need more lowers and now I wish I wouldn't have turned down the m96 I found a while back.
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 5:07:35 PM EDT
Love this idea. I too have a M96 and would love to have a belt fed kit for it. If you're able to make one, make two and count me in for one.
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 5:39:53 PM EDT
I wouldn't even know where to begin with that project but wish you all the luck as I would love one for my M96!
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 6:10:35 PM EDT
I don't know if it would be useful for this project or not, but I just saw a Stoner 63 feed tray on GB.
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 6:16:56 PM EDT
Wonder if Robinson would come of their blue prints
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 6:29:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2012 6:33:59 PM EDT by MrM1A1]
Originally Posted By jtb0311:
I don't know if it would be useful for this project or not, but I just saw a Stoner 63 feed tray on GB.


Saw that just now. There is also an early left feed complete top cover and feed tray in excellent like new condition. I guess I could just buy that and fit it onto the M96......if I had $5,100. (and I don't )

Originally Posted By Trimdad:
Wonder if Robinson would come of their blue prints


Not likely. Not even gonna bother trying to deal with RobArms in the least, their CS is aweful, and for some reason they act like they never even produced the M96.

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
The M249 top cover is way too long, you will need a need roller track that is considerably shorter. But it might make for a good start point.

You aren't the only guy with this idea...hence why I have one too.


I'll reword my original statement of using the M249 top cover, I plan on using the feed mechanism, and devising a short stroke roller/arm to fit the 96. So it will start out as a 249 top cover, but will get chopped and welded and otherwise molested to suit my needs. Now I just gotta get an M249 top cover assembly and feed tray.

Link Posted: 11/26/2012 6:32:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2012 6:36:09 PM EDT by Savary]
I heard Robinson doesn’t give a shit about it anymore, won’t even answer questions about it.
You know about Mongo? He might give you some advice.
He’s got some parts in CAD, if not the whole gun.
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/about.htm
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 6:40:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2012 6:46:51 PM EDT by SousEstime]
Originally Posted By jm0502:
Enough with the side projects. Im already behind, still need a ithica 12ga , looking for a S&W, just bought a m60 bipod, need more lowers and now I wish I wouldn't have turned down the m96 I found a while back.


I'm with you, brother. I'm in the middle of a prototype build as well as fixing up a Hi Power. I already want to do a Mk4 MOD0 build, buy an SP1, and build a semi auto Carl Gustav M/45 and on top of that, now I have to add this to the list...
My wallet hurts
Link Posted: 11/26/2012 7:14:45 PM EDT
There are reasons that the Robinson Arms belt feed kit did not go anywhere, I will simply say that if someone is considering it as a personal project you are probably good to go, but if you are looking at a commercial venture I would tread carefully and do your homework.

Link Posted: 11/26/2012 8:34:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
There are reasons that the Robinson Arms belt feed kit did not go anywhere, I will simply say that if someone is considering it as a personal project you are probably good to go, but if you are looking at a commercial venture I would tread carefully and do your homework.



Agreed. My intentions are not to produce a commercial product, but to build a belt fed M63A clone for shiggles. Although not out of the relm of possibility, making a run of these is not likely to happen, at least by me anyways.

Regardless it will be a fun project, and hopefully I can make it a reliable system.
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 2:29:24 AM EDT
Years ago, a guy made himself one if these. It was on a different forum, and I don't remember the details.

It was a long build thread, with his experiments, testing, etc. I did save some of the pictures, as I was very interested in this project for myself at the time.

Once again, I have no idea where these were originally, it was probably about 10 years ago.











Link Posted: 11/27/2012 2:58:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2012 3:06:57 AM EDT by jm0502]
Can't hot link. Found this.

http://aftermathgunclub.com/?p=1447

Company that made it.

http://www.armstechltd.com/
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 4:11:48 AM EDT
Me want.
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 4:41:30 AM EDT
Wow. Sorry if this is a dumb question,, where did the mag well go?
This is a cool project but would make me nervous , one miss cut
On that receiver and that's it
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 5:32:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Trimdad:
Wow. Sorry if this is a dumb question,, where did the mag well go?
This is a cool project but would make me nervous , one miss cut
On that receiver and that's it


The mag well is its own modular section, and for the belt feed conversion it is left off the gun. Also, there will be absolutely no permanent modifications made to the M96, only swapping out a couple parts and installing the feed kit. No receiver cutting involved.

Not sure how this guy did it, but that's the plan. His setup looks pretty damn sweet, I'd be thrilled with that!
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 5:36:46 AM EDT
Totally cool project!
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 6:55:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MrM1A1:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
There are reasons that the Robinson Arms belt feed kit did not go anywhere, I will simply say that if someone is considering it as a personal project you are probably good to go, but if you are looking at a commercial venture I would tread carefully and do your homework.



Agreed. My intentions are not to produce a commercial product, but to build a belt fed M63A clone for shiggles. Although not out of the relm of possibility, making a run of these is not likely to happen, at least by me anyways.

Regardless it will be a fun project, and hopefully I can make it a reliable system.


Absolutely!

The only reason I haven't gone forward isn't lack of ability, but rather the cost involved in making it happen, and although I can write it off as R&D, it would just be a "one off" and a semi at that. A really, really cool semi, but a semi belt fed for a dead rifle platfom as there is no support for the M96 anymore.
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 8:26:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2012 8:34:07 AM EDT by WaffenUndBier]
That's why I bought an M96 in 1999 (since I was always missing out on good Stoner 63 deals). I grab Stoner parts cheaply whenever I can to help facilitate this pipe dream of mine. Every so often, I'll think about selling the M96, but then think, damn, that would make a neat belt fed semi. Stoner copy (and I put it back in the safe).

Had discussion with Alex Robinson at the 2003 SHOT Show about the M96. He said they actually spent a lot of money designing and tooling up for the M96. At the time though, they were pinning their hopes on the XCR (sp?). He had concerns with potential cook off issues with the closed bolt belt fed, and since an open bolt gun was not and option.......The AWB which was in effect at the time may have helped kill it as well (although I argue that it did not apply to belt feds).

While I applaud the efforts of whoever made the belt fed featured in the above photos, that folding buttstock looks like a s s (and I'm not talking about the round smooth part of the a s s either). Although it makes me want to modify the M96 with a CAR stock, an RIAS, a vertical foregrip, and a single point sling attachment all finished off with grey shade zombie skulls, so I can be all ATAS. JK.


Link Posted: 11/27/2012 3:32:55 PM EDT
I had started the same project about 10 yrs ago. I bought a light demil LH Feedtray Cover Assy )$100?), Selector ($25) and flash suppressor ( $30?)from Jerry Tarble, scored some other parts online.

I sent Kurt at KKF (RIP....) the flash suppressor, which he used to make copies and look-alike muzzlebrakes during the Dark Ages (Ban era)

I was going to mill from 6061 T6, a new feed cover and tray, do the calculations for an M27 Link feed pawl, and try to alter the M96 bolt carrier assy to accept the Stoner belt feed bolt carrier extension, and hopefully it would all be close to working. I had a NOS Mk23 stock window that I inlaid into the M96 stock using Brownell's AccuGlass, looked factory when I was done.

The Stoner Selector drops in with minor fitting to work as a safety

Jerry may actually already have M27-timed feed pawls already made, you would have to check with him.

You still need to be able to make the M96 hammer, trigger and disconnector work with the belt feed bolt carrier extension.

Now there is supposedly an army surplus store in Bedford, Indiana, run by a guy named "Jim", who bought tons of demil scrap from Crane, including Stoner parts. Most of the good stuff has been gleened from the pile already. I never had the opportunity to make a pilgrimage to search parts myself.

The AR18/180 Folding Stock Hinge Assy supposedly is almost a drop in fit, bolt the M96 stock to the stock plate, push in the two stock trunnion pins and Bob's yer uncle.

There is now a G&P Stoner 63A Mk23 Mod0 airsoft ($400-475) that you may be able to use to reverse engineer some parts like the flash suppressor, rear sight, feed cover (externals) and feed tray. The 100rd plastic box hanger is mostly sheetmetal, if you have a real box, use the airsoft to reverse engineer the hanger assy. (on Black Friday Deal for $399 on the below website). Cheaper than buying original Stoner parts, and easier than scaling up the Dragon 1/6 scale Mk23 Mod0

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/AEG_AEP_G_P_G_P_U_S_Navy_MK23_MG_Shabby_Vesion_Limited_Edition.htm



Use the front sight base/gas block to make lost-wax cast steel copies, like the prototype AR15 part just copied.

Mongo has CAD of the LH 150rd metal drum.
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 4:59:24 PM EDT
What impresses me most about this thread is that more than one retro forum member has had this idea and pursued it. In my experience with you guys, that means sooner or later, someone will succeed at this. I've been in love with the Stoner 63A for a long time - the M96 is different, but pretty much the only option a guy without a trust fund has. I'll be watching this post with great interest. Rock on.
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 5:27:48 PM EDT
I too bought a m96 about ten years ago with dreams of having all of the earlier promised accessories and modular conversion parts. Looking at my different books on Eugene Stoner's designs I am always wishing some of these parts were out there for the m96. A guy in Flordia came up with a underfolding stock adaptor once and there are aftermarket scope mounts, handguard rails, and AR stock adapters out there too. I would like to see the cradle adaptor to put the weapon on a basic GI tripod.

Maybe the moderatiors could find a place for the Stoner 63 and M96 discussions. HINT HINT, and we could have a place to share ideas and projects on the m96 as well as archive pictures and information on the Stoner 63. The M96 is not too widespread among people on this forum, but as this thread has shown, there are people that own them and have similar dreams and projects in mind.

All in favor of the moderators finding a place on the forum for M96 / Stoner 63 discussions say I.
Link Posted: 11/27/2012 7:32:01 PM EDT
I

I mean "Aye"

Link Posted: 11/28/2012 4:06:15 AM EDT
I think it already has a place personally. Seriously, what better place than here? Besides, what would you call it 'The Stoner Forum' ? 'Stoner Central' ? Somehow that just has a funny ring to it.
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 5:49:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2012 5:51:51 AM EDT by WaffenUndBier]
Stoner63A Thanks for posting that. $399 is a great deal for that MK23. Those airsoft copies are freekin' amazing. They are a great source for mock up parts. I picked one up with the hopes of shoehorning a Razorback bolt and feed set up into it. 300 days left on my current employment contract and I'm free to get to work on my list of gun projects. That will be one of the first ones.
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 5:56:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2012 6:00:37 AM EDT by MrM1A1]
Is this really going to turn into a "this topic shouldn't be here" or "we need a new subforum" thread? WTF?

Look, Aimless respectfully asked the members of this forum how we felt about this subject, and the ball is in site staff's court. If they want to split the retro forum up into dead little lonely corners of arfcom, then they're gonna do it. If not, then not.

My point is that I'm sick of seeing this come up in threads when there is already a thread to address this "issue".

I have some cool ideas to make a belt fed Stoner M63A machine gun clone on my Robinson, and will no doubt be bouncing ideas and seeking help from members around here. If that doesn't fit here, I don't know what's happening to this place.

So please, I'd like to keep the thread on topic before it morphs into something retarded I don't want to bother with anymore.

ETA: Sorry for the bitch-fest, I got like an hour of sleep last night, 1yo son is wicked sick.
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 6:56:57 AM EDT
I'm with ya. Of course, my lack of sleep came from scouring the internet for a reasonably priced M96. If you go ahead and belt feed the damn thing, prices are going to skyrocket

Personally think this and other RETROish topics should stay here.

ka
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 7:03:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
I'm with ya. Of course, my lack of sleep came from scouring the internet for a reasonably priced M96. If you go ahead and belt feed the damn thing, prices are going to skyrocket

Personally think this and other RETROish topics should stay here.

ka


There's a couple on GB right now, one of which is a regular retro member's.

Seems there are less and less coming up for sale as time goes on.

BTW, does anyone know how many M96's Robinson made?
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 7:05:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MrM1A1:
Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
I'm with ya. Of course, my lack of sleep came from scouring the internet for a reasonably priced M96. If you go ahead and belt feed the damn thing, prices are going to skyrocket

Personally think this and other RETROish topics should stay here.

ka


There's a couple on GB right now, one of which is a regular retro member's.

Seems there are less and less coming up for sale as time goes on.

BTW, does anyone know how many M96's Robinson made?


About 5,000 IIRC, about 2500 in 1999, and then another 2500 in 2003.

Yeah, one member here has his listed for sale...only because he needs to pay for a new SL8 to G36 conversion.
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 7:06:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MrM1A1:
Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
I'm with ya. Of course, my lack of sleep came from scouring the internet for a reasonably priced M96. If you go ahead and belt feed the damn thing, prices are going to skyrocket

Personally think this and other RETROish topics should stay here.

ka


There's a couple on GB right now, one of which is a regular retro member's.

?


Yep, saw both of them. Both seem to be earlier models, with early features, for a price I'm not willing to pay. Deals are out there, you just have to stalk them like the elusive Snipe.
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 7:33:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
Originally Posted By MrM1A1:
Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
I'm with ya. Of course, my lack of sleep came from scouring the internet for a reasonably priced M96. If you go ahead and belt feed the damn thing, prices are going to skyrocket

Personally think this and other RETROish topics should stay here.

ka


There's a couple on GB right now, one of which is a regular retro member's.

?


Yep, saw both of them. Both seem to be earlier models, with early features, for a price I'm not willing to pay. Deals are out there, you just have to stalk them like the elusive Snipe.


True, although 'reasonable' is a relative term. If I was in the market for one, I'd be buying Dawg's, but that's just me.

Good luck on the search, maybe you'll get lucky and find one at a pawn shop for under $1k.
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 1:27:48 PM EDT
Yeah, if I was seriously in the market...and had the money to spend. I just found out about a corrosion issue in an outboard that I just bought. My fun funds are tied up for a while. It's about time to go back to Afghanistan and deliver the mail. and make some more cash.


ka
Link Posted: 11/28/2012 2:02:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
Yeah, if I was seriously in the market...and had the money to spend. I just found out about a corrosion issue in an outboard that I just bought. My fun funds are tied up for a while. It's about time to go back to Afghanistan and deliver the mail. and make some more cash.


ka


Hey stay safe out there, make sure EVERYONE gets their mail.

BTW, thank you for your service.
Link Posted: 1/11/2013 11:00:34 PM EDT
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 10:47:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 11:17:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 12:00:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 12:42:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?


$5000 was just for the parts made by Revere, the additional $7,000 was for Stoner 63 parts that were necessary to complete the whole thing, and the TDP as I understand it.

$5000 just got you the original Revere parts, you would have still needed to source or fab more parts.

Link Posted: 1/12/2013 1:01:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?


$5000 was just for the parts made by Revere, the additional $7,000 was for Stoner 63 parts that were necessary to complete the whole thing, and the TDP as I understand it.

$5000 just got you the original Revere parts, you would have still needed to source or fab more parts.



Gotcha. Yeah, that would have been a pretty expensive semi-auto beltfed.
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 1:06:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?


$5000 was just for the parts made by Revere, the additional $7,000 was for Stoner 63 parts that were necessary to complete the whole thing, and the TDP as I understand it.

$5000 just got you the original Revere parts, you would have still needed to source or fab more parts.



Gotcha. Yeah, that would have been a pretty expensive semi-auto beltfed.


Expensive for a single buyer who just wants a toy, but everything is ready in one shot, you aren't wasting months of time and money on R&D, so from a manufacturing standpoint it was a good deal. Pay $13K for the done unit with drawings, manufacture 25 units and sell them from $3,500 each, and the math works out real well.

Link Posted: 1/12/2013 4:36:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2013 4:38:00 PM EDT by B44T]
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?


$5000 was just for the parts made by Revere, the additional $7,000 was for Stoner 63 parts that were necessary to complete the whole thing, and the TDP as I understand it.

$5000 just got you the original Revere parts, you would have still needed to source or fab more parts.



Gotcha. Yeah, that would have been a pretty expensive semi-auto beltfed.


Expensive for a single buyer who just wants a toy, but everything is ready in one shot, you aren't wasting months of time and money on R&D, so from a manufacturing standpoint it was a good deal. Pay $13K for the done unit with drawings, manufacture 25 units and sell them from $3,500 each, and the math works out real well.



Manufacture 250 units and sell them for $2,500 each and the math works out even better.

Sub out the casting, stamping and machining to established ( low over overhead) outfits specializing (experienced) in such things that are located in job hungry areas, like Detroit for example, to make them better faster cheaper with more of a profit margin.
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 4:40:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2013 4:41:21 PM EDT by Dawg180]
Originally Posted By B44T:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?


$5000 was just for the parts made by Revere, the additional $7,000 was for Stoner 63 parts that were necessary to complete the whole thing, and the TDP as I understand it.

$5000 just got you the original Revere parts, you would have still needed to source or fab more parts.



Gotcha. Yeah, that would have been a pretty expensive semi-auto beltfed.


Expensive for a single buyer who just wants a toy, but everything is ready in one shot, you aren't wasting months of time and money on R&D, so from a manufacturing standpoint it was a good deal. Pay $13K for the done unit with drawings, manufacture 25 units and sell them from $3,500 each, and the math works out real well.



Manufacture 250 units and sell them for $2,500 each and the math works out even better.

Sub out the casting, stamping and machining to established ( low over overhead) outfits specializing (experienced) in such things that are located in job hungry areas, like Detroit for example, to make them better faster cheaper with more of a profit margin.


I have a very different opinion of the economics and market interest in it, and how much cash I would be willing to invest on a proejct for what is essentially a dead gun design with no parts support from the manufacturer, but to each their own. I only do this stuff for a living.
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 7:25:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By B44T:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?


$5000 was just for the parts made by Revere, the additional $7,000 was for Stoner 63 parts that were necessary to complete the whole thing, and the TDP as I understand it.

$5000 just got you the original Revere parts, you would have still needed to source or fab more parts.



Gotcha. Yeah, that would have been a pretty expensive semi-auto beltfed.


Expensive for a single buyer who just wants a toy, but everything is ready in one shot, you aren't wasting months of time and money on R&D, so from a manufacturing standpoint it was a good deal. Pay $13K for the done unit with drawings, manufacture 25 units and sell them from $3,500 each, and the math works out real well.



Manufacture 250 units and sell them for $2,500 each and the math works out even better.

Sub out the casting, stamping and machining to established ( low over overhead) outfits specializing (experienced) in such things that are located in job hungry areas, like Detroit for example, to make them better faster cheaper with more of a profit margin.


I have a very different opinion of the economics and market interest in it, and how much cash I would be willing to invest on a proejct for what is essentially a dead gun design with no parts support from the manufacturer, but to each their own. I only do this stuff for a living.


PM sent
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 7:47:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By B44T:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Originally Posted By jrpett:
Originally Posted By B44T:
The Revere 96A1 kit is for sale on Biggerhammer it aint cheap.


Is that the conversion that was posted by stevejness on the first page?


Yes.


Sadly, I sold my M96 on Gunbroker just days before that turned up, and found out about it only hours after it sold. Had I known I would have ponied up the cash, bought it, and started manufacturing them $13,000 is a good price being that it included all the TDP with it (techincal data package, i.e. engineering blueprints).

I could have made the $13K back in less than a year selling belt conversions for the M96!


The parts that were $5000, would that have been drop-in ready? What would be the reason for the $13,000 total kit? Is that so you can get measurements to manufacture more?


$5000 was just for the parts made by Revere, the additional $7,000 was for Stoner 63 parts that were necessary to complete the whole thing, and the TDP as I understand it.

$5000 just got you the original Revere parts, you would have still needed to source or fab more parts.



Gotcha. Yeah, that would have been a pretty expensive semi-auto beltfed.


Expensive for a single buyer who just wants a toy, but everything is ready in one shot, you aren't wasting months of time and money on R&D, so from a manufacturing standpoint it was a good deal. Pay $13K for the done unit with drawings, manufacture 25 units and sell them from $3,500 each, and the math works out real well.



Manufacture 250 units and sell them for $2,500 each and the math works out even better.

Sub out the casting, stamping and machining to established ( low over overhead) outfits specializing (experienced) in such things that are located in job hungry areas, like Detroit for example, to make them better faster cheaper with more of a profit margin.


I have a very different opinion of the economics and market interest in it, and how much cash I would be willing to invest on a proejct for what is essentially a dead gun design with no parts support from the manufacturer, but to each their own. I only do this stuff for a living.

you could always create a new market for the m96 and maybe someone will start to produce them again.
Link Posted: 1/12/2013 8:19:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2013 8:22:26 PM EDT by B44T]
Since R.A., like everyone else, are backlogged with current product line items the odds are zero that they would resume production of a low volume low profit difficult to make rifle.

My gut hunch is that R.A. is not going to give away the design right to the M96 either.

Given the situation as it is I think for any one to get any "thing" made be that an accessory or custom part a group would have to get together find and some one willing to make those "thing"(s) on a pre order group buy type basis one "thing" at a time.

Link Posted: 1/12/2013 8:25:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stevejness:
Years ago, a guy made himself one if these. It was on a different forum, and I don't remember the details.

It was a long build thread, with his experiments, testing, etc. I did save some of the pictures, as I was very interested in this project for myself at the time.

Once again, I have no idea where these were originally, it was probably about 10 years ago.

http://imageshack.us/a/img825/579/99754084.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img221/1228/25637454.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img22/8012/99535380.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img152/871/16267939.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img51/4589/58364053.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img853/7332/34659245.png


They were posted on the now defunct M96.org




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