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Posted: 5/7/2011 10:58:22 AM EDT
I modified a GSE 4" pistol buffer kit to fit with one of my stock brackets. It took making a custom buffer tube and modyfing the end cap. It is about 1" short of being butt level with the collapsed wire stock. I will probably have a new cap made to make up for that, or put a rubber extension on this one, The bracket is made for A1 lowers. I still have to modify the wire stock to fit around the a2 reinforcements. I am going to go and see if this pistol buffer kit works now. If I dont like it then I will make some tubes that work with a standard CAR buffer system.. Later!!!! |
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Posted: 5/7/2011 11:12:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Looks awesome. I'll be waiting anxiously to hear how it works!
Outstanding effort here! |
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Posted: 5/7/2011 11:20:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Killer ! It looks right. Like the originals. Someone should make these for sale.
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Posted: 5/7/2011 12:56:49 PM EDT
[#3]
That looks really good, jhud!
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Posted: 5/7/2011 1:46:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Great work! Those stocks are cool..
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Posted: 5/7/2011 2:56:28 PM EDT
[#5]
That is a nice piece of work Sir!
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Posted: 5/7/2011 2:57:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Range report
lower: Essential Arms RR upper: Colt 604 10" w/ tri prong ammo: Gautemalan M193 It functioned on semi auto. I normally sport an H1 buffer w/ 10" uppers. Recoil is much better that way. Full auto it did not. The hammer was not catching the sear. We are going to leave the TSI stock on the M16. The last time this happened was when my gas key was loose (it was the gas piston conversions fault). |
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Posted: 5/7/2011 3:20:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Looks good John.Excited to see the finished product.
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Posted: 5/8/2011 11:44:06 AM EDT
[#8]
I want. ~Augee |
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Posted: 5/8/2011 1:43:06 PM EDT
[#9]
wish I could do sbr's here...that looks so neat
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Posted: 5/8/2011 4:02:59 PM EDT
[#10]
VERY sweet! A weapon that has an M16 for a mother and an M3A1 "Greasegun" for a daddy!
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Posted: 5/8/2011 9:36:19 PM EDT
[#11]
The wire stock modded to fit around the A2 extension.. |
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Posted: 5/9/2011 6:53:00 AM EDT
[#12]
looks good Jhud!
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Posted: 5/9/2011 12:04:51 PM EDT
[#13]
If a person was going to reproduce these, is there any reason why the wire stock could not be notched to match the shorter buffer tube rather than creating a longer tube to match the stock?
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Posted: 5/9/2011 2:01:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
If a person was going to reproduce these, is there any reason why the wire stock could not be notched to match the shorter buffer tube rather than creating a longer tube to match the stock? I have done that before on a DPMS repro and will probably offer that as an option. (never sell stuff LOL The problem with this length is the wire stock will bump into the bolt catch and fence before it levels up. It cannot pass that point due to lower width. Shortening the wire stock would be in order along with new notches. Only by an inch A2's will require mods to the wire frame anyway to clear the reinforcement... IF I could get a hold of or borrow a real M231 buffer tube and the other components I would try to replicate a few. at least for myself, and look into closed bolt systems. There has got to be a few other folks who might want to build one in the future. When I get it right I will make them for sale, or at least offer DIY kits. Its all about the buffer system at this point. |
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Posted: 5/9/2011 10:19:48 PM EDT
[#15]
EDIT phase 2 starts today. I am officially now unemployed (by choice) and working full time on my retro AR projects, and putting a surplus store together. |
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Posted: 5/14/2011 8:33:51 AM EDT
[#16]
I have to deterine how long the buffer need to be. (that is why i had two buffers made). After I figure that out I can TIG weld the rear cap on (it is .20 thick, same as the buffer tube). The OAL is 5.5 inches long with .5 of that being threads. The buffer is 4140 steel and the tube is aluminum. I have yet to weigh the buffe. I might look into having it made from tungsten. Should the bumper contact the end of the tube before the spring is 100% compressed? Should I allow for any compression of the bumper? The present length allows for .050 compression but I think it might not need but .025 or so. |
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Posted: 5/14/2011 8:54:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Wow, you got me. I have no idea how to balance a nested system like that. I would think your going to want to compensate the missing buffer weight to increase dwell time so it doesn't runaway at high speed. The rear of the tube is going to be taking some serious force.
Buffer Technologies sells the nylon buffer pads, I figure you knew that already. |
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Posted: 5/14/2011 9:10:24 AM EDT
[#18]
jhud, that's a pretty neat idea for giving a buffer weight(s) enough room to move back and forth in that short tube set up.
Looks like you are on to a good solution! Should the bumper contact the end of the tube before the spring is 100% compressed? I am not an engineer, but am a mechanic and I don't think you want to rely on coil bind to stop the BCGs rearward travel. Yes, I think the bumper should contact the end of the tube before the spring is fully compressed. Should I allow for any compression of the bumper? Like you said, probably a little is correct. Maybe you could measure how far it compresses in a vice or carefully in a press? |
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Posted: 5/14/2011 9:31:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Wow, you got me. I have no idea how to balance a nested system like that. I would think your going to want to compensate the missing buffer weight to increase dwell time so it doesn't runaway at high speed. The rear of the tube is going to be taking some serious force. Buffer Technologies sells the nylon buffer pads, I figure you knew that already. Thank you for letting me know who makes the buffer pads. That was a few steps down on my checklist. here are some buffer weights: -standard CAR 2.955 oz -H2 4.585 oz - prototype 4.060 oz. before adjusting the length and drilling the roll pin hole Looks like it is rougly .5 oz shy of being an H2. Normaly I use an H1 with a 10" so this might work well. How important is the balance? Is that the purpose of the sliding weights? Using a standard carbine weight is going to sacriface the strength, from the wall being too thin As for the force on the rear of the tube.. This was my thought behind phase II: -The solid steel bolt insert might weight the same as a normal buffer. It is. -The same carbine spring is being used.. only it is shorter. -Bolt travel is the same. The bolt face can only go past the catch a certain amount wether its that 4" getup or a rifle buffer. |
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Posted: 5/14/2011 2:53:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Coil bind will ruin the spring quickly. If you can leave 1/4" of travel on the spring, it should last like a std carbine spring.
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Posted: 5/14/2011 4:56:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, you got me. I have no idea how to balance a nested system like that. I would think your going to want to compensate the missing buffer weight to increase dwell time so it doesn't runaway at high speed. The rear of the tube is going to be taking some serious force. Buffer Technologies sells the nylon buffer pads, I figure you knew that already. Thank you for letting me know who makes the buffer pads. That was a few steps down on my checklist. here are some buffer weights: -standard CAR 2.955 oz -H2 4.585 oz - prototype 4.060 oz. before adjusting the length and drilling the roll pin hole Looks like it is rougly .5 oz shy of being an H2. Normaly I use an H1 with a 10" so this might work well. How important is the balance? Is that the purpose of the sliding weights? Using a standard carbine weight is going to sacriface the strength, from the wall being too thin As for the force on the rear of the tube.. This was my thought behind phase II: -The solid steel bolt insert might weight the same as a normal buffer. It is. -The same carbine spring is being used.. only it is shorter. -Bolt travel is the same. The bolt face can only go past the catch a certain amount wether its that 4" getup or a rifle buffer. I've read that once the action spring shoves the bolt into the locking lugs, the buffer's sliding weights come along a moment later and bump the bolt into place a second time. This reduces the chance it will bounce out. If you decide to go with a sliding weight set up, you may be able to make the weight a smaller diameter to keep the buffer tube walls from getting too thin. Maybe turn down a standard size one? |
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Posted: 5/14/2011 7:22:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I've read that once the action spring shoves the bolt into the locking lugs, the buffer's sliding weights come along a moment later and bump the bolt into place a second time. This reduces the chance it will bounce out. If you decide to go with a sliding weight set up, you may be able to make the weight a smaller diameter to keep the buffer tube walls from getting too thin. Maybe turn down a standard size one? That makes alot of sense. I have a sloution already. 
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Posted: 6/23/2011 3:48:55 AM EDT
[#24]
what material is the tube made of?
It's generally not a good idea to screw something in and out of aluminum threads too many times, so if the tube itself was made of steel, I'd say make a removable cap on the end of the tube so you're not messing up the threads in the receiver. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 3:49:11 AM EDT
[#25]
I would knurl the end like the cap on the originals. If it can be taken down by hand, that's 1 less tool to keep track of.
EDIT: Or, what he said ^^^^ |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 5:57:59 AM EDT
[#26]
It is aluminum.
Im getting a quote here in a minute.... I will ask about adding a knurled cap on the end (something like the last 1" would be cap. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 2:32:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Very interesting project, I like to keep watching it to see how your doing. And I hope for your SUCCESS in your new ventures!
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Posted: 7/19/2011 5:30:24 PM EDT
[#28]
I got the custom made buffer springs in the mail today, assembling it tonite, and am going to try test it tommorrow.
Debating on whether I should just open the show with magdumps or not. |
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Posted: 7/19/2011 7:53:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Where are the pictures?
Looks like Photobucket axed 'em. |
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Posted: 7/19/2011 7:59:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Where are the pictures? Looks like Photobucket axed 'em. X2. wheres Da PITCHERS!!! |
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Posted: 7/20/2011 2:18:04 PM EDT
[#31]
All the pictures are gone...Now my unborn son will never know what this thread was all about...
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Posted: 7/20/2011 3:50:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
All the pictures are gone...Now my unborn son will never know what this thread was all about... Ive not went anywhere yet.... I asumed anyone following this remembered... for my protection at the time being i chose to edit the pic. 
The next one is going to have a steel buffer tube. internal shots when im done. Function test worked somewhat. It would jam during rapid fire. I never tried on auto for that reason. This was with colt 20's, alloy follower, and a black follower 30 of cooper industires. 78 M193 Ejection was 3oc.. recoil not harsh. I think failure to eject was my problem... Less buffer weight? Wont know till I try with another barrel and diiferent ammo. Maybe the gun was dirty? I will try to fine tune it. |
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Posted: 7/22/2011 4:35:48 PM EDT
[#33]
I got it doing full magdumps today using remmington .223, winchester, and guat 5.56 m193, and my 55gr reloads.
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Posted: 7/22/2011 11:53:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I got it doing full magdumps today using remmington .223, winchester, and guat 5.56 m193, and my 55gr reloads. Did you change anything mechanically in the rifle? |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:27:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I got it doing full magdumps today using remmington .223, winchester, and guat 5.56 m193, and my 55gr reloads. Did you change anything mechanically in the rifle? No. Just cleaned it. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 3:33:16 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 7/23/2011 10:53:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Very Nice Jhud, so all it needed was cleaned & it ran correctly.
Why the switch to a steel buffer tube? Wouldn't that add unwanted weight? |
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Posted: 7/24/2011 4:38:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Very Nice Jhud, so all it needed was cleaned & it ran correctly. Why the switch to a steel buffer tube? Wouldn't that add unwanted weight? I think he's switching to steel because in order to open up the receivers so you can clean the gun, you have to unscrew a cap at the rear of the tube, and pull the springs and buffer set up out of the back of the tube . The threads in a steel tube and cap will take this repeated use much better than the threads in an aluminum tube would....that's my guess anyway
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Posted: 7/24/2011 7:51:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Very Nice Jhud, so all it needed was cleaned & it ran correctly. Why the switch to a steel buffer tube? Wouldn't that add unwanted weight? I think he's switching to steel because in order to open up the receivers so you can clean the gun, you have to unscrew a cap at the rear of the tube, and pull the springs and buffer set up out of the back of the tube . The threads in a steel tube and cap will take this repeated use much better than the threads in an aluminum tube would....that's my guess anyway Makes perfect sense. |
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Posted: 7/24/2011 8:39:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Nice vid, all it really needs is a better camera operator taking decent pics and audio...
So how did the wire stock fit and feel while shooting? Could you get a decent cheek weld while shooting? |
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Posted: 7/24/2011 6:15:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Nice vid, all it really needs is a better camera operator taking decent pics and audio...
So how did the wire stock fit and feel while shooting? Could you get a decent cheek weld while shooting? youtube vid 2 There is another I got that might show how it weld's. I am satisfied with the cheek weld. It feels sturdy and thethe recoils isnt harsh at all. No beard snags yet..... 
With it collpased, it would be ideal farm/truck work, or just plain tight spaces. Makes for a comfortable right hand user shooting left. Standard bench shooting with it collapsed is different, if you can only imagine. |
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Posted: 7/24/2011 7:39:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Awesome, this goes on my wish list!
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Posted: 7/24/2011 8:21:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Awesome, this goes on my wish list![/quote] Dear Santa...
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Posted: 7/25/2011 7:29:26 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
With it collpased, it would be ideal farm/truck work, or just plain tight spaces. Makes for a comfortable right hand user shooting left. Standard bench shooting with it collapsed is different, if you can only imagine. Plus, it's the only way to have a sub-30" AR-15 legally in Michigan (no SBR). Sub-30" would require registration as a pistol here, allowing it to be loaded in the trunk/cabin. |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 9:50:59 PM EDT
[#45]
So you going stay with the large threaded end cap like in the vid or with a more flatter design sort of like the end of a mag light?
Yes I am intrigued with this project, for possible use on my retro inspired "experimental" carbine project. Just looking for options, like the 607 flash hider coupled with the 231 stock on an NDS-32 upper/601 lower... |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 1:47:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
So you going stay with the large threaded end cap like in the vid or with a more flatter design sort of like the end of a mag light? Yes I am intrigued with this project, for possible use on my retro inspired "experimental" carbine project. Just looking for options, like the 607 flash hider coupled with the 231 stock on an NDS-32 upper/601 lower... Not sure. Its been all function testing up to now. Im thinking this might be slick with a DOE. |
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Posted: 7/26/2011 6:44:18 PM EDT
[#47]
I agree, a DOE was exactly what I was thinking.
I wonder how it would work with 9mm or 45acp, although I use a std carbine buffer in my AR45 without problems. |
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Posted: 7/28/2011 8:00:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Does anyone have an idea of who makes those buffer bumper pad things.
Buffer Technologies makes one. It is hollow and not like the milspec part. |
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Posted: 8/10/2011 9:33:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I agree, a DOE was exactly what I was thinking. I wonder how it would work with 9mm or 45acp, although I use a std carbine buffer in my AR45 without problems. A .45acp AR is where I'd put one of these once I get the current pistol registered as an SBR. |
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Posted: 8/11/2011 10:50:02 PM EDT
[#50]
taggus maximus
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