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Posted: 12/13/2010 4:55:29 AM EDT
Ok, I've promised you guys C8 photos for so long that you all probably figured I was liar.  Anyway, just got back from Afghanistan and while I was there I snapped a couple of pics for you guys.  Original configuration C8s seem to be mostly issued to medics, also saw one or two in the possesion of a couple artillery, go figure.

This is the C8 that was issued to our platoon medic.  You can see that he added a 4X ACOG and Vickers sling.  The CADEX vert grip, Triad mount and M3X illuminator are issued.

Things to note about the C8:

Lower is A2 configuration with no selector markings on the right side but the selector is notched,
Fiberlite stocks were used as replacements, they would have come with vinyl acetate covered aluminum from the factory and many still have these,
Barrel is best described as lightweight with a .750" FSB, I've seen a pic of this as a possible profile for the XM4 program.
Handguards are all slim 6 hole, even current issue C8A3s come with these, new ones are painted green.



Here you can clearly see the stylized D used in all Diemaco rifles, current Colt Canada rifles still use this marking.  Anyone telling you that a non-stylized D marked upper is a Diemaco is wrong.  Forge code kind of looks like an evergreen, but all types will be encountered.  Once saw an upper that had both the Diemaco D and a Colt C, wish I had a pic of that one.



First two numbers of serial number indicate year of manufacture, this one's from '87 the year the C7 and C8 were introduced in the CF.  '86 was the first year of manufacturing.  AA was used for C7s, AB for C8s and AC for the C9 (M249).  Markings of course are bilingual.



Good view of the barrel profile forward of the FSB.  Notice the prominent flare at the end of the barrel, unsure of exact diameter but I'm guessing that it's close to .740".  Hard to tell with the Triad mount but that is an .750" FSB.  Barrel is government profile under the handguards and they are all chrome lined, colled hammer forged with 1/7 twist.  Flash hider is A2 with peel washer.



Better view of the step down the barrel makes from .750" to the lightweight profile.  You can just make out the thicker portion under the Triad mount.



Unfortunately that's all I have.  I'll try and get more in the future but these seem to be dissapearing, not sure if they're being upgraded to C8A3 specs or returned to war stock.

One last item to note would be the mag.  Originally Canada used Thermold mags with a maple leaf on them.  Guess some engineer in Ottawa changed the spec of the material used and this resulted in a high failure rate, most notibly of the fragile feed lips.  I've got a couple kicking around for old times sake, would go great with a C8 clone.  Anyway, you'll notice that the mag is black instead of the US grey, not sure what process they use (anodizing?) but that black doesn't come off like the US mags, very sturdy stuff.  Followers are black instead of green.
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 4:59:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Welcome home!  Thanks for posting the pics.  I do like the way that one is set up.

I'd like to find an upper receiver like that.

Anyone have more info on that Triad mount?  I did a quick "google" and didn't come up with much.
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 5:11:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Great pics! We may end up replacing the IDF-type rifles with Canuck rifles!

For some reason, I find myself wanting to go skate on the Rideau and get a beavertail.
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 5:49:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Welcome home!  Thanks for posting the pics.  I do like the way that one is set up.

I'd like to find an upper receiver like that.

Anyone have more info on that Triad mount?  I did a quick "google" and didn't come up with much.


The Triad mount is a Diemaco design, not for retail, which is a good thing if you ask me.  The CF decided to go with this terrible POS instead of purchasing something like the KAC RAS for general issue.  Puts all of your weight too far forward, especially on the C7.
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 6:14:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Does that mean this barrel from Del-Ton would be awesome for a reproduction?  http://www.del-ton.com/DTI_Del_Ton_Inc_AR_15_16_Light_Weight_Pre_Ban_p/bl1051.htm  They seem to have a .750 gas block and a lightweight profile!  HUZZAH!  
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 6:16:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Barrel is best described as lightweight with a .750" FSB, I've seen a pic of this as a possible profile for the XM4 program.


Is this a 16" barrel or 14.5" barrel?
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 6:26:20 AM EDT
[#6]
thanks for the great pics


I think this is the pic of the XM4 barrels of which you were referring


I need to find a stylized D marked upper for this barrel I guess
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 10:00:47 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 10:37:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
OMG

The upper and lower don't color match.


Can NDS provide dark grey C7 uppers and light grey McKay lowers as a "matched" set for building authentic looking C8s?

Link Posted: 12/13/2010 11:58:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
OMG

The upper and lower don't color match.


Can NDS provide dark grey C7 uppers and light grey McKay lowers as a "matched" set for building authentic looking C8s?



You might be joking... but I'm not that far off!  With that Del-ton barrel, an A1 upper with a shell deflector, and finding someone to do engraving that's not a hard one to reproduce with available parts.
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 12:20:17 PM EDT
[#10]
BenC, The barrels are 14.5".  The Delton would be a close approximation without the large flange at the end.

CrackedCornish, did you have that made or is it a Diemaco barrel?  Never seen one of those barrels available privately or commercially, which is why an accurate C8 clone is difficult.

The lower does look grey however the upper is obviously black.  I joined in the mid 90's, right after they upgraded to flat top uppers on the C7 so can't say for sure what colour the lowers were prior to that.  Don't believe that they refinished them during the refurb and most lowers from the 80s appear black, some have just become worn and some have picked up a strange hue.  I've seen black ones, grey ones and the odd one that looked green/gold if that makes sense.

ETA:  Now that I'm thinking about it, we had an Afghan KANDAK attached to us and they were issued C7s.  They were definitely black, not grey.  Wish I'd taken some photos for you guys as I'm sure most would have had CS stocks for the shorter afghans and what I found most interesting is that someone (CDN government I assume) had milled/stamped lines through the rollmarks and restamped the serial number above that on both the upper and lower.  Always planned on getting pics but that KANDAK was switched out with another, the replacements all had U.S. supplied M16A2s instead.
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 12:31:35 PM EDT
[#11]
My memory may be bad, but when 4CMBG got the C7 back around '89 they seemed awfully black compared to our M16A2s.
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 1:39:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
BenC, The barrels are 14.5".  The Delton would be a close approximation without the large flange at the end.

CrackedCornish, did you have that made or is it a Diemaco barrel?  Never seen one of those barrels available privately or commercially, which is why an accurate C8 clone is difficult.

The lower does look grey however the upper is obviously black.  I joined in the mid 90's, right after they upgraded to flat top uppers on the C7 so can't say for sure what colour the lowers were prior to that.  Don't believe that they refinished them during the refurb and most lowers from the 80s appear black, some have just become worn and some have picked up a strange hue.  I've seen black ones, grey ones and the odd one that looked green/gold if that makes sense.


that's a  16" mid-length 6.8SPC chambered lightweight that was offered up by Cardinal Armory (formerly Ko-Tonics) a couple of years ago.

I had the pic of the XM4 barrels, and when I saw this on the CA website the profile reminded me of the top barrel in the pic, so I figured it would make a good future project barrel

I have a "D K" marked C7 upper, but would love to find a "Stylized D" with the M4 ramps


and you're saying these had A2 lowers with vinyl acetate stocks, and 2 pos. tubes?
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 3:15:14 PM EDT
[#13]
i got as close as i could with my latest



you hosers !
take off, eh?
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 3:33:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
i got as close as i could with my latest

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo119/hotdogit250/C-8done0012b.jpg

you hosers !
take off, eh?


Could you post a closer photo of your roll marks / Canadian leaf?
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 3:45:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Welcome home.
Thanks for the cool pics, love the CF stuff.
My personal fav. rifle is the C7 clone, followed closely by the LSW ;)

Please post any others, C7's C8's of any flavour.

Thx!
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 9:12:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Welcome home!  Thanks for posting the pics.  I do like the way that one is set up.

I'd like to find an upper receiver like that.

Anyone have more info on that Triad mount?  I did a quick "google" and didn't come up with much.


The Triad mount is a Diemaco design, not for retail, which is a good thing if you ask me.  The CF decided to go with this terrible POS instead of purchasing something like the KAC RAS for general issue.  Puts all of your weight too far forward, especially on the C7.

They're a poor mans answer to the RAS. Designed by MWO(Ret.) Gary Crocker. PPCLI has RAS in the QM.

Link Posted: 12/13/2010 9:13:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Barrel is best described as lightweight with a .750" FSB, I've seen a pic of this as a possible profile for the XM4 program.


Is this a 16" barrel or 14.5" barrel?

C8 is 14.5" and the C8 SFW is 15.8"
Link Posted: 12/13/2010 9:20:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BenC, The barrels are 14.5".  The Delton would be a close approximation without the large flange at the end.

CrackedCornish, did you have that made or is it a Diemaco barrel?  Never seen one of those barrels available privately or commercially, which is why an accurate C8 clone is difficult.

The lower does look grey however the upper is obviously black.  I joined in the mid 90's, right after they upgraded to flat top uppers on the C7 so can't say for sure what colour the lowers were prior to that.  Don't believe that they refinished them during the refurb and most lowers from the 80s appear black, some have just become worn and some have picked up a strange hue.  I've seen black ones, grey ones and the odd one that looked green/gold if that makes sense.


that's a  16" mid-length 6.8SPC chambered lightweight that was offered up by Cardinal Armory (formerly Ko-Tonics) a couple of years ago.

I had the pic of the XM4 barrels, and when I saw this on the CA website the profile reminded me of the top barrel in the pic, so I figured it would make a good future project barrel

I have a "D K" marked C7 upper, but would love to find a "Stylized D" with the M4 ramps


and you're saying these had A2 lowers with vinyl acetate stocks, and 2 pos. tubes?

A D K marked upper is not Diemaco. The first C8 uppers had C H marked uppers followed by C H with the stylized "D" just under the rear sight. Then finally just the stylized "D". C8 don't have M4 feed ramps. The Dutch contract ones do. The SFW barrels have M4 feed ramps, but are run with standard weaver flat top uppers.
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 2:12:10 AM EDT
[#19]
RebelRouser is correct, no M4 ramps on these.  Canada has never used M4 ramps as far as I'm aware, never thought to look on the newer C8FTHB or C8A3.

A2 lower with vinyl acetate covered aluminum stock with a 2 position tube is how these left the factory in the late 80's.  You will find quite a few Colt made parts on these as Colt has helped out with parts over the years and vice versa, even prior to Diemaco becoming Colt Canada.  Good case in point would be the C7A2, Canada decided to go with a CAR style stock instead of M4, guess they couldn't meet initial demand so you find quite a few green fiberlite N 1 marked stocks mixed in with the textured Diemaco stocks.
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 3:52:17 AM EDT
[#20]
I've got a C7 clone, and it's a nice rifle.  I like it, it reminds me of an A2 but without the PITA sights.

BTW, is the Tri-Ad aluminum or steel?  It looks like it'd be a nice addon if all you wanted to do was hang a flashlight?

Actually tried to buy one a while back, but it looks like somebody considers them to be classified technology or something!
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 4:18:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I've got a C7 clone, and it's a nice rifle.  I like it, it reminds me of an A2 but without the PITA sights.

BTW, is the Tri-Ad aluminum or steel?  It looks like it'd be a nice addon if all you wanted to do was hang a flashlight?

Actually tried to buy one a while back, but it looks like somebody considers them to be classified technology or something!


I bet if good pictures of all sides of the Tri-Ad and some dimmensions were posted here that someone would have a replica made within days.
Gotta be careful what you post here...this forum is kinda like the old Star Trek "Replicator."
Brrrrrrwp...Here's one right here!

Link Posted: 12/14/2010 4:35:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've got a C7 clone, and it's a nice rifle.  I like it, it reminds me of an A2 but without the PITA sights.

BTW, is the Tri-Ad aluminum or steel?  It looks like it'd be a nice addon if all you wanted to do was hang a flashlight?

Actually tried to buy one a while back, but it looks like somebody considers them to be classified technology or something!


I bet if good pictures of all sides of the Tri-Ad and some dimmensions were posted here that someone would have a replica made within days.
Gotta be careful what you post here...this forum is kinda like the old Star Trek "Replicator."
Brrrrrrwp...Here's one right here!



I'd did find mention of the Tri-ad mount in some Airsoft forum during my google search.  Didn't bother looking anymore than that.
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 4:53:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
BenC, The barrels are 14.5".  The Delton would be a close approximation without the large flange at the end.

CrackedCornish, did you have that made or is it a Diemaco barrel?  Never seen one of those barrels available privately or commercially, which is why an accurate C8 clone is difficult.

The lower does look grey however the upper is obviously black.  I joined in the mid 90's, right after they upgraded to flat top uppers on the C7 so can't say for sure what colour the lowers were prior to that.  Don't believe that they refinished them during the refurb and most lowers from the 80s appear black, some have just become worn and some have picked up a strange hue.  I've seen black ones, grey ones and the odd one that looked green/gold if that makes sense.


that's a  16" mid-length 6.8SPC chambered lightweight that was offered up by Cardinal Armory (formerly Ko-Tonics) a couple of years ago.

I had the pic of the XM4 barrels, and when I saw this on the CA website the profile reminded me of the top barrel in the pic, so I figured it would make a good future project barrel

I have a "D K" marked C7 upper, but would love to find a "Stylized D" with the M4 ramps


and you're saying these had A2 lowers with vinyl acetate stocks, and 2 pos. tubes?


A D K marked upper is not Diemaco. The first C8 uppers had C H marked uppers followed by C H with the stylized "D" just under the rear sight. Then finally just the stylized "D". That's why I want the stylized D, but I think I have a C H in the receiver pile

C8 don't have M4 feed ramps. The Dutch contract ones do. The SFW barrels have M4 feed ramps, but are run with standard weaver flat top uppers but since my barrel is chambered in 6.8SPC it, unlike 5.56, actually needs the ramps to feed properly.


Link Posted: 12/14/2010 5:06:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've got a C7 clone, and it's a nice rifle.  I like it, it reminds me of an A2 but without the PITA sights.

BTW, is the Tri-Ad aluminum or steel?  It looks like it'd be a nice addon if all you wanted to do was hang a flashlight?

Actually tried to buy one a while back, but it looks like somebody considers them to be classified technology or something!


I bet if good pictures of all sides of the Tri-Ad and some dimmensions were posted here that someone would have a replica made within days.
Gotta be careful what you post here...this forum is kinda like the old Star Trek "Replicator."
Brrrrrrwp...Here's one right here!



Welcome to the Retro Forum,
Building Great Rifle Clones BY Choice,
Reverse Engineering By Necessity.

Doc

Link Posted: 12/14/2010 6:25:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I'd did find mention of the Tri-ad mount in some Airsoft forum during my google search.  Didn't bother looking anymore than that.


Your search-fu skills are weak, old man.

I found someone who is, or was, selling reproduction Triad mounts.  $120 each.  I've got a line on possible machine drawings, if there's interest here I'll pursue it further.

Link Posted: 12/14/2010 7:02:42 AM EDT
[#26]
I did not that anything railed was allowed.??????????

Is that the original rail or something?
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 7:04:59 AM EDT
[#27]
What does the triad mount do that the 2 pc fsb adapter doesn't?
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 8:08:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I did not that anything railed was allowed.??????????

Is that the original rail or something?


Hey some of us dabble in rails.
You should see my deer hunting AR-15. (7.62x39)

But no, rails are not normally seen around here.
But a C8 with a rail might be able to sneak in and not get too much flak.

Link Posted: 12/14/2010 8:28:45 AM EDT
[#29]
The Triad rail is used on the Canadian C7A2 & C8 rifles, this thread is about the C8.  Some posters said they might want to do a C8 build, like some have done "Blackhawk Down" builds and IDF builds.  To do a "correct" C8 build they would need a Triad rail, just as doing a "correct" Blackhawk Down build requires the correct Surefire barrel mount and light.  I suppose the C8 could be considered at the very edge of retro since they use the fixed sight carry handle C7 upper.

ETA:  The reference I found said it's made from aluminum castings.

More info:

Basic drawing:


Couple more photos:


Darn, I had found a page with a complete description of all the changes on the C7A2 and C8 and messed around and closed my browser before I bookmarked the page.
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 9:16:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Excellent pictures, Leg!

Quoted:
More info:

Basic drawing:
http://www.justissoil.com/Pics/triad1.jpg

Couple more photos:
http://www.justissoil.com/Pics/triad2.jpg

Darn, I had found a page with a complete description of all the changes on the C7A2 and C8 and messed around and closed my browser before I bookmarked the page.

I'd really love to have one of those and one of those Canadian detachable carry handles.
Link Posted: 12/14/2010 9:39:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I did not that anything railed was allowed.??????????

Is that the original rail or something?


Hey some of us dabble in rails.
You should see my deer hunting AR-15. (7.62x39)

But no, rails are not normally seen around here.
But a C8 with a rail might be able to sneak in and not get too much flak.



Dang it, Squirrel. Now you got me thinking about a 604 in 7.62X39. Was wanting a 6.8SPC but ammo is cheaper for a 7.62X39, and the ranges deer are at around here with a  Barnes TSX it would be more than good enough.

Link Posted: 12/14/2010 5:41:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Dang it, Squirrel. Now you got me thinking about a 604 in 7.62X39. Was wanting a 6.8SPC but ammo is cheaper for a 7.62X39, and the ranges deer are at around here with a  Barnes TSX it would be more than good enough.


Here are some tempting photos. (Hey at least there is an SP1 in the background!)
It is setup for hog hunting.
It has a Citadel barrel and shoots 1.5" at 100 yards.
I remember someone was asking here about Citadel barrel performance not too long ago.
Not bad for 7.62x39 using Wolf ammo!







Link Posted: 12/14/2010 7:49:48 PM EDT
[#33]
I want to know where I can get some real green Canadian furniture.
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 1:12:55 AM EDT
[#34]
I fail to see how any of this is retro if an A2 is not.
Ralph
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 4:13:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
I fail to see how any of this is retro if an A2 is not.
Ralph

In psychology its referred to as creating "special categories."
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 4:43:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
I fail to see how any of this is retro if an A2 is not.
Ralph


The rifle in the OP was an A1 upper. It gets a special dispensation.

Link Posted: 12/15/2010 4:55:09 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I fail to see how any of this is retro if an A2 is not.
Ralph


The rifle in the OP was an A1 upper. It gets a special dispensation.



The A2 has been replaced by railed monstrosities, that also gets it a special dispensation.  
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 5:15:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Refer to them as "post retro"
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 5:17:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Refer to them as "post retro"

The correct term would be "classic".
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 6:44:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
In psychology its referred to as creating "special categories."


Quoted:
The rifle in the OP was an A1 upper. It gets a special dispensation.


Quoted:
Refer to them as "post retro"


I feel like I'm taking Group Psychology all over again hehe.
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 9:05:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I fail to see how any of this is retro if an A2 is not.
Ralph


The rifle in the OP was an A1 upper. It gets a special dispensation.



The A2 has been replaced by railed monstrosities, that also gets it a special dispensation.  


This.
Ralph
Link Posted: 12/15/2010 9:27:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Hey I like rails, they ain't evil...but they ain't purty either.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 12:51:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Redonkulous!
Link Posted: 12/18/2010 2:35:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Well this thread certainly seems to have gone off the rails.

Is the C8 retro?  Tough to say, it was developed alongside the A2.  Canada simply preferred the simpler sights of the A1, rest is really an A2 however it is certainly an interesting and unique variant.

It used an aluminum stock long after Colt stopped using them and uses a unique barrel profile that has never (to my knowledge), been used by anyone else.  I'd seen lots of questions on here about C7s and C8s so I thought that I'd post a couple of pics to clear up some misconceptions about things like the barrel profile and D K marked uppers.  I suppose that my error was not removing the modern accessories this guy had on his rifle but I wasn't about to mess with his zero in a war zone.  Hopefully when my leave is done I'll be able to track some of these down in the racks and take some less controversial photos for you guys.
Link Posted: 12/18/2010 4:21:21 AM EDT
[#45]
C7 and C8 are really not "Retro", but they are very interesting and unique.
They belong here and on Retro Black Rifle because of the interest that members have expressed.
I was conflicted about adding them to RBR but reason won out so I created a page for them.
I don't see a problem with having an ACOG in the picture.
I'd rather see the ACOG than not see the rifle at all.
Also I find it interesting to see older models adapted and still in use today.
Thanks for posting the pictures Leg, and thanks for supplying us with more C8 info.

FWIW, most of the info on RBR about the C7 & C8 came from Leg.
Before that all we knew was C7s and C8s came with C7 uppers and that C7 sometimes used a weird Canadian stock.
He really expanded our knowledge on Canadian rifles.

ETA:
Sorry that I helped derail the original topic.
I'll try to refrain from that in the future.
Link Posted: 12/19/2010 2:29:04 PM EDT
[#46]
More C8 pics. These are KevinB's.


Link Posted: 12/19/2010 2:36:15 PM EDT
[#47]
The carry handles were never issued to the CF. Mostly to the LE. They are designed to fit a weaver rail, not a 1913.
Link Posted: 12/19/2010 2:44:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
What does the triad mount do that the 2 pc fsb adapter doesn't?

Honestly the only good thing the Tri-ad is good for is if you are running a light weight carbine in a LE type of role.
Link Posted: 12/19/2010 7:14:47 PM EDT
[#49]
RebelRouser,

On the C8FTHB, what is the thick profile toward the muzzle of the barrel?  Is that to be able to mount a M203?

I saw a couple of CF C7s while I was in Afghanistan, but didn't get a chance to check them out too closely.

I think a C8 is going to be my next build since I have most of the parts to put one together.  I think I will use a DPMS LW barrel since the profile is pretty close.
Link Posted: 12/19/2010 11:53:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
RebelRouser,

On the C8FTHB, what is the thick profile toward the muzzle of the barrel?  Is that to be able to mount a M203?

I saw a couple of CF C7s while I was in Afghanistan, but didn't get a chance to check them out too closely.

I think a C8 is going to be my next build since I have most of the parts to put one together.  I think I will use a DPMS LW barrel since the profile is pretty close.


crackedcornish posted a pic on page one of the different xm4 barrel profiles. It looks like the second one in the pic.

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