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Posted: 4/25/2010 7:18:57 AM EDT
Hi all, I'm an AK builder usually, but I have a thing for AR's as well.
I'm building a 177e2 inspired carbine from bushmaster parts, and wanted to get another .22lr conversion to use in it as I have a spikes that I use in my a1 colt and I love it. But I have been working on a mag design for a while to use some 20rd GI mag bodies and use guts from a BDM or other .22lr mag to adapt it to fit the ar. I am just wondering if anyone has done this before, if so I would love to see some pics or hear some ideas.. I really like being able to shoot .22 from an ar, but I just want a correct 'looking' mag for my 177 build 
anyway, thanks for the views.. 
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Posted: 4/25/2010 7:44:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Silley,
US Mil. conversion used a small .22 magazine designed to be inserted in a standard 20rd (or may be 30rd too) 5,56mm magazine. I don't know if they are still available in the US but here in Belgium, such magazine (without the 5.56 body) can be found for about 20€ a piece. regards, Gabriel |
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Posted: 4/25/2010 7:45:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Hi all, I'm an AK builder usually, but I have a thing for AR's as well. I'm building a 177e2 inspired carbine from bushmaster parts, and wanted to get another .22lr conversion to use in it as I have a spikes that I use in my a1 colt and I love it. But I have been working on a mag design for a while to use some 20rd GI mag bodies and use guts from a BDM or other .22lr mag to adapt it to fit the ar. I am just wondering if anyone has done this before, if so I would love to see some pics or hear some ideas.. I really like being able to shoot .22 from an ar, but I just want a correct 'looking' mag for my 177 build
anyway, thanks for the views.. Easier to just buy a kit.There are also the 10 rd inserts that fit into any standard AR mag.Here is an airfoce kit for sale from a very reputable member of this site.A very Quiet gentlman for sure,and a HUGE + 1 from anyone who has dealt with him in the past. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=166395986 |
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Posted: 4/25/2010 7:55:25 AM EDT
[#3]
woah! you guys are great! that's way better than building it!!
thank you! |
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Posted: 4/25/2010 8:00:33 AM EDT
[#4]
here's a m261..the 10 shot mag adapter fits into a GI 20 or 30 round mag
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Posted: 4/25/2010 8:04:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Thanks cracked,saves me from trying to find my insert!
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Posted: 4/25/2010 12:30:44 PM EDT
[#6]
ya so... I bought that m261 on GB. can't wait to get it!! I'll be getting the rest of my build parts except for the 11.5" bbl tomorrow. So I'll post pics after the big brown truck shows up
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Posted: 4/25/2010 2:20:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
ya so... I bought that m261 on GB. can't wait to get it!! I'll be getting the rest of my build parts except for the 11.5" bbl tomorrow. So I'll post pics after the big brown truck shows up I think you'll be happy with that set up....I really enjoy mine 
here's a link to someone with a couple mag inserts for sale |
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Posted: 4/25/2010 2:41:52 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 4/28/2010 3:54:27 PM EDT
[#9]
just thought I would post an update.
I already got the m261 conversion and mag adapter, tried them in my incomplete rifle build(still waiting on 11.5" barrel) and it fits great and cycles by hand very well. Thanks again to all who posted, I'll toss some pics up here when I get it finished.
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Posted: 4/28/2010 4:34:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Ok,we'll let ya slide on the pics for now,,the usual reply is" no you did'nt receive anything as it doesn't exsist without pics"..Please do post the pics when you can.Would luv to see it!
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Posted: 4/28/2010 4:52:32 PM EDT
[#11]
ok sniper.. just for you. I was going to save these until I got all my parts, but here's what I got so far
I had two goals with this rifle: use all Bushy parts, and somewhat resemble a 177e2. Here's the m261, the mags are Bushmaster SS models that I stripped the black paint off of. 
Upper, lower and stock 
and the rest of the stuff..
I should have my barrel by monday, and also bought a barska 4x20 scope that I haven't picked up from cabela's. |
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Posted: 4/28/2010 5:49:54 PM EDT
[#12]
that's lookin' good so far...you should use the 45Bravo modified Bushy superlight barrel and moderator.
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Posted: 4/29/2010 2:27:32 AM EDT
[#13]
wow, that's hot! too bad I already ordered my 11.5 from BM.. oh well, I can always get another upper
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Posted: 4/29/2010 6:51:05 AM EDT
[#14]
That's a great start Brother!
yea,we LUV before,during and after pics here in retroland..thanks for posting!
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Posted: 4/29/2010 7:24:48 AM EDT
[#15]
I'd build that as a 723, you're 95% of the way there.
Then take the 11.5"-5.5" Bushy barrel and build a gray XM177E2 version with an aluminum CAR stock. |
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Posted: 4/29/2010 1:42:30 PM EDT
[#16]
thanks sniper, I'll post more pics tomorrow as my barrel will be here in the AM
Mike- I am actually not sure what a 723 is, I'm new to the retro's, but I will do some searching.. and btw- you guys are great(NDS) I bought my yugo m72 rec from you a few months ago and I love it! edit: looks like the 723 is a 16" hbar from what I found. Funny, my barrel wasn't done yet and I almost changed my order to that exact one!! Maybe I'll build another upper this summer when I'm making more $$
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Posted: 4/29/2010 2:11:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Actually, the 723 has a 14.5" pencil barrel, and is my favorite Carbine variant.
I used the Bushy 16" Superlight barrel on mine. 
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Posted: 4/29/2010 2:34:21 PM EDT
[#18]
I see.. thanks for the cool pic, now I don't have any excuses for not knowing
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Posted: 4/29/2010 2:40:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Actually, the 723 has a 14.5" pencil barrel, and is my favorite Carbine variant. I used the Bushy 16" Superlight barrel on mine. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/35327Colt_catalog.jpg ...or a 723 can be set up with A2 profile barrel and M203 cut like this 
Commonly referred to as a M16A2 Carbine, slang as "CAR-15" or "M4", 8 million serial number range, 1987-?: (taken fromEkie's Guide) |
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Posted: 4/29/2010 4:26:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
that's lookin' good so far...you should use the 45Bravo modified Bushy superlight barrel and moderator. http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s71/45Bravo/MVC-664S.jpg Those look great! I hope he gets mine done soon. I don't know how long he's had it, but it's been awhile now... My M261 seems to jam alot, don't use it too much. I do like the way it sounds with my 733 replica and Gemtech M4-02 suppressor, though. |
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Posted: 4/29/2010 4:53:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
that's lookin' good so far...you should use the 45Bravo modified Bushy superlight barrel and moderator. http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s71/45Bravo/MVC-664S.jpg Those look great! I hope he gets mine done soon. I don't know how long he's had it, but it's been awhile now... My M261 seems to jam alot, don't use it too much. I do like the way it sounds with my 733 replica and Gemtech M4-02 suppressor, though. mine runs like a top using CCI mini-mags |
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Posted: 5/2/2010 11:15:12 AM EDT
[#22]
well, I have since finished my rifle, and shot it today.
two problems: with .223 it doesn't seem to eject. the empty case comes out of the chamber, but stays on top of the next round being chambered and jams the bolt halfway. I tried 3 different brand new bushmaster mags and it didn't change. I inspected the cases that did not eject, and they have a mark from the extractor and a small mark where the ejector hit the back of the case, so I'm not sure what it could be? It's not short stroking, as it is coming all the way back and stripping another round just fine. the other problem is the m261 kit. I am a little reluctant to mention this, but out of the box it was double firing with one trigger pull and the 3rd round the bolt would close(on a live round) and the hammer was not reset. it made me nervous, as I have never had a firearm do this. I'm not even sure where to go with this problem at the moment. I'm a bit frustrated, having spent $1400 on brand new bushmaster parts and ending up with something that doesn't work 
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. |
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Posted: 5/2/2010 2:51:23 PM EDT
[#23]
nevermind, I soaked it with oil, went back to the range and put 100rds through it without a single hiccup...
Guess it was just dry
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Posted: 5/2/2010 4:46:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
nevermind, I soaked it with oil, went back to the range and put 100rds through it without a single hiccup... Guess it was just dry did that fix the problem with the m261 as well? |
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Posted: 5/2/2010 5:01:14 PM EDT
[#25]
Are M261 type variations on the Conversion kit theme available from any mfgr. of today (CMMG) (Ciener/Attichison) (Attichison) (Spikes) ... otherwise which modern era conversion kit most closely replicates the M261 ?
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Posted: 5/2/2010 5:04:03 PM EDT
[#26]
cracked: sure did fix it! I'm very happy, I was a little worried that it was fubar'd.. but I guess not
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Posted: 5/2/2010 5:22:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Are M261 type variations on the Conversion kit theme available from any mfgr. of today (CMMG) (Ciener/Attichison) (Attichison) (Spikes) ... otherwise which modern era conversion kit most closely replicates the M261 ? as I'm not familiar with every .22LR kit I went and looked at Black Dog Machine's website. And if magazine compatibility is any indication of which kits are similar, and I would think it is, it looks like the Atchisson, Ciener, CMMG, Model 1 Sales, Spikes Tactical, Tactical Solutions, and Target Master set ups are pretty much the same (since all these kits are listed as using the same mag), and the M261 and Olympic kits are the same. this is just speculation on my part though as I only have personal experience with a few M261's....never really saw a reason to use the other type. Though some of the things CMMG is coming up with recently are pretty interesting, like the last shot hold open (about the only thing I don't care for on the M261's is the lack of one) and the forward assist. |
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Posted: 5/2/2010 5:30:03 PM EDT
[#28]
I had a spikes kit until recently, but it was completely different looking. two slides on it v.s. the one beefy slide on the M261. Also the spikes has a longer 'neck' on the cartridge adapter. I'm assuming that would reduce the amount of floating the adapter would do in the chamber.
And also the spikes has o-rings where it goes into the chamber, for a tighter fit and less fouling blowing back into the upper. Honestly though, after shooting both I can't really see a huge difference between the two in accuracy or function. |
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Posted: 5/2/2010 5:53:19 PM EDT
[#29]
I have a kit from CMMG and I love it. I do know that M261 mags dont work with it, I borrowed one from work and tried it out and the bolt wont close on it. I think BD makes 27 round mags for the M261 though.
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Posted: 5/2/2010 8:48:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are M261 type variations on the Conversion kit theme available from any mfgr. of today (CMMG) (Ciener/Attichison) (Attichison) (Spikes) ... otherwise which modern era conversion kit most closely replicates the M261 ? as I'm not familiar with every .22LR kit I went and looked at Black Dog Machine's website. And if magazine compatibility is any indication of which kits are similar, and I would think it is, it looks like the Atchisson, Ciener, CMMG, Model 1 Sales, Spikes Tactical, Tactical Solutions, and Target Master set ups are pretty much the same (since all these kits are listed as using the same mag), and the M261 and Olympic kits are the same. this is just speculation on my part though as I only have personal experience with a few M261's....never really saw a reason to use the other type. Though some of the things CMMG is coming up with recently are pretty interesting, like the last shot hold open (about the only thing I don't care for on the M261's is the lack of one) and the forward assist. Are olympic Kits current production or a 1970's & 80's thing ( older Mil contract for conversion kits ) ? |
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Posted: 5/3/2010 5:33:31 AM EDT
[#31]
There are 3 major types of .22LR conversion units for AR's:
M261 (Army) the Army version is what everybody generally uses, and the BlackDog M261 mags fit this type. The positve side is that it is a military model, and uses real mags for the inserts. The Olympic versions are newly manufactured AFAIK. Ciener style. (to include CMMG, Spikes) this is the most popular type on the market. BlackDog and CMMG both make mags for this type. Colt type. (DPMS made a copy of this design) a good design except for the fact that you can't close the ejection port door, and the ejector is on the left feed lip. High cap mags are now available from BlackDog. I have owned all three. Of these I like the CMMG the best. They make a magazine that looks like a GI mag but is a dedicated high-cap .22LR. And it is the easiest to combine with a dedicated .22LR barrel. It also functions better than my old M261 for rapid fire. |
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Posted: 5/3/2010 7:03:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Were CMMG conversion units produced prior to Jan 1 2000 , if not which companies were making conversion units then ? (Colt was as was Ciener)
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Posted: 5/3/2010 7:59:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Were CMMG conversion units produced prior to Jan 1 2000 , if not which companies were making conversion units then ? (Colt was as was Ciener) I don't think CMMG was even in the manufacturing business then.................... What is the relevance? Does Kalifornia have some obscure law regarding .22LR conversion units 
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