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SSeric02
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Posted: 3/26/2010 8:03:00 AM EST
Came across this today and thought I'd pass it along. Not mine, don't know the seller.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=162327023
xm177e2687
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Posted: 3/26/2010 8:07:44 AM EST
wow, I've never seen an original for sale before
QUIET
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Posted: 3/26/2010 8:14:24 AM EST
I know the seller and wouldn't hesitate to give him a huge pile of money.
OlSarge2K
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Posted: 3/26/2010 8:32:26 AM EST
And that, is cool.
TexSquirrel
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Posted: 3/26/2010 9:04:34 AM EST
It is not pinned on!!!
Hal143
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Posted: 3/26/2010 9:24:37 AM EST
Agreed ! doesn't look pinned. What's up with that ?
willp
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Posted: 3/26/2010 10:14:08 AM EST
I had asked about that a few months ago, one of the pics of the 607 in TBR shows a 607 that appeared to have the "flat plate" at the rear of the receiver & no roll pin for the detent spring but the consensus was that it was just in the pic?
WA-Tom
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Posted: 3/26/2010 10:37:44 AM EST
Sorry pal, thats a TSI stock. Good luck with your asking price of $800 +
TexSquirrel
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Posted: 3/26/2010 10:50:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By WA-Tom:
Sorry pal, thats a TSI stock. Good luck with your asking price of $800 +


...from the man who ought to know!

coltshorty14
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Posted: 3/26/2010 11:00:05 AM EST
The hex head bolts should be a dead give-away on that one.
Hal143
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Posted: 3/26/2010 11:03:51 AM EST

Agreed again......Tom would know better than anyone.
I suspected as much but didn't want to say anything to rile anyone before the experts here had a chance look at it.

The TBR pic does appear to have a mounting plate on that one and only photo. Probably an anomaly as stated. All others in the TBR are deinitely pinned.

I'm not usually one to stir the pot, but I may just have to call this guy out if someone hasn't already.
TREADMARKS
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Posted: 3/26/2010 11:05:09 AM EST
It looks exactly like my TSI.

Only beat up.
Good..
Bad..
I'm the one with the gun!
Hal143
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Posted: 3/26/2010 11:11:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2010 11:13:04 AM EST by Hal143]
The deception taken even further by someone mounting it to a demilled lower.
willp
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Posted: 3/26/2010 11:23:19 AM EST
I already spoke w/the owner about this stock, before everyone starts w/ "deception" etc, he was very up front, I had mentioned the TSI stocks before I saw Tom's post & he said he didn't think so as they had a number of rifles, including 601's & this 607 that his company demilled a few years back, that's where it came from, it was on a complete rifle & they cut it up. That doesn't preclude the possibility that it may still be a TSI stock but after speaking w/him personally I don't think he's aware of it if it is, he was very helpful, answered all my questions, even took the buffer out & sent me pics of it (it's 1 of the 2 pc 9mm/Commando buffers) & said he wasn't very familiar w/the 607 & appreciated any info he could get on them.
lcsert416
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Posted: 3/26/2010 12:28:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2010 12:48:09 PM EST by lcsert416]
I know nothing about 607 stocks, but a comparison of this with the real thing shows it is not an original. I know that YFS, (the screw manufacture that made the hex head screw on the stock in the auction) was not around until 1979. What I also know is if the seller is offering this as an original 607 stock even after being told it is not he is committing fraud and if he ships it to someone it is now Mail Fraud. If you think that this is not serious business, think again. If he didn't know, honest mistake. If he is told it is a copy and does not change the auction and some one buys it, thinking it is the real deal, then he taken advantage of someone and has committed a crime. I did e-mailhim and tell him it is not a real 607 stock.
ETA: I see he ended the auction, so I give him credit. I still don't buy the "demilled 607" story.
willp
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Posted: 3/26/2010 12:55:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By lcsert416:
I know nothing about 607 stocks, but a comparison of this with the real thing shows it is not an original. What I do know a lot about the legal ramifications of false representations. If the seller is offering this as an original 607 stock even after being told it is not he is committing fraud and if he ships it to someone it is now Mail Fraud. If you think that this is not serious business, think again.


Interesting, you know nothing about them, but......? comparison w/a real one, do you have one? we're all searching for info on the real ones so if so please share pics w/us, I've only got the pics from BR & the pics from this great forum. My only question here is now we're talking about fraud, liability etc, geez!!!!!!
M1sniper made me aware of the stock auction this morning, I'm building a 607 & of course was interested & CALLED & SPOKE W/THE GENTLEMAN personally, he put his email & HIS PHONE NUMBER in the dam auction! He was very upfront, willing to answer any questions, take pics (which he did & sent me), we even discussed the TSI stocks etc, he stated he felt it was original (PLEASE SEE A COPY OF HIS EMAIL TO ME BELOW) but wasn't very knowledgeable on the 607 Y would be grateful for any info anyone could/would provide, THEN I saw the posting where WaTom said it was one of his stocks, I made the seller aware of the posting, he's not a member here & he asked if I could post the below for him which I gladly agreed to do. I did not know him before I made the call to him this morning & have nothing to do w/the sale of this stock nor it's provenance & AM NOT saying it is a TSI or an original, I don't know (apparently unlike Icert416), the seller just responded openly & honestly to all my inquiries & didn't try to hide or misrepresent anything to me, based on his being a gentleman I feel that this is a bit nutty the way this thread is going, here's a copy of his email to me:
Hi Phil
Could you post this for me.
Thanks, Ron

First thing I am not intending to deceive. The history of the stock is this. About 4 years ago a guy in northern Wisconsin was busted with a bunch of Illegal machineguns in the lot of over 60 guns about he had about 12 M16 most were old Colt’s SP-1, 01’s some with odd turned down flash hiders no forward assist same with the bolts the whole thing, some other HB’s and one had this stock on it. About 1 year after he was busted the ATF had us cut up all the guns, we could strip them down and cut up the receiver and the rest of the parts are ours. Some of the guns allegedly may have been stolen from the Navy ( He was a LT ) But none of this was ever proven. When we did the demill we had ½ a day to get all this stuff stripped and cut under the eye of 2 ATF agents . At that time I did not want to remove the stock so I just cut off the back of the receiver and torched the rest of it. That’s how it came to be in my custody. I can say for 100% fact that this stock was in the hands of the ATF years ago and then to me about 2 ½ years or so and was on a old COLT M16 at the time I cut it up. That’s about all I can tell you.
I am more then happy to send photo’s or look for any marks that may help determine just what this is.
Thanks, Ron
rwa62@charter.net

I am not a member of this site so I would like to thank willyp for posting this for me.
RMiller
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Posted: 3/26/2010 1:40:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2010 1:43:18 PM EST by RMiller]
You guys kill me, willing to throw down at the drop of a hat over a part that is not even Colt, even the casual looker on the retro forum should be able to tell that is a TSI stock.

If not then how about the word of the man who made it, WA-Tom gave a positive ID.

Take it easy, this is the retro forum!
Magnus
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Posted: 3/26/2010 2:59:59 PM EST
Looks like he pulled the item from auction. Hope he offers it on the EE.
willp
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Posted: 3/26/2010 3:08:24 PM EST
Not "throwing down" at all, my apologies to all if that's how it read, not even debating the originality of the stock, I just thought it was unfair to call someone a thief basically w/o talking to him or knowing the "other" side, that's a bit unfair.
SSeric02
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Posted: 3/26/2010 3:17:14 PM EST
Wow! What an interesting turn of events, LOL. Sounds like the guy who was busted by the ATF must have bought one of the TSI stocks and put it on one of his illegal MGs. Wonder if that guy's intent was to pass it off as something before he was busted. At any rate, alls well that ends well, the seller obviously now knows what he's really got, and maybe someone here can still get their hands on it for a nice retro clone build.
TexSquirrel
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Posted: 3/26/2010 3:50:27 PM EST
I was surprised that it wasn't pinned, and wondered if it was some strange unseen toolroom example.
...until Tom said it was his creation.

I've dealt with the GB seller and got one rifle built with some of the 601 parts.
That's where I got my 602's barrel, triangle charging handle and chrome BCG.
All those parts were original parts.
I buy the "he didn't know" story.
Most people wouldn't know.
GUTS
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Posted: 3/26/2010 4:31:35 PM EST
Remember these photos? The ATF Gun Room, I would think this one might be original.





If the Earth was as big as Jupiter, we'd all have a ranch.
WA-Tom
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Posted: 3/26/2010 7:10:47 PM EST
Gee guys didn't mean to start a shitstorm. Too bad the guy got popped. Well it does not surprise me that it was on an M16, the trasnferable machine gun and ban era semis were my target market at the time I started this. FIrst I have never seen a Colt gun that used the mounting plate, that was my design and mine alone. While I never patented it, ( if the money were there I certainly would have) its easy to spot on two counts: One the anodizing is chipping a bit too easily due to the alloy I used not being condusive to plating. Second the lower locking rod will have a nut on the end that inserts into the receiver that has two wrench flats cut on an otherwise round nut. Wow, I wonder if thats why ATF gave me such a hard time! They knew I was really into machine guns I am sure.
lcsert416
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Posted: 3/27/2010 3:30:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2010 3:38:25 AM EST by lcsert416]
Originally Posted By willp:
Not "throwing down" at all, my apologies to all if that's how it read, not even debating the originality of the stock, I just thought it was unfair to call someone a thief basically w/o talking to him or knowing the "other" side, that's a bit unfair.


I never called him a thief, I am sorry if it came off like that. I stated that if he kept the auction up after being told what it was he was violating the law. He took it down and therefore obviously did the right thing and is not a thief.

I said what I said in my post because I am starting to see more and more firearms items being passed off as something they are not and it concerns me. I have seen individuals prosecuted for this in the classic car arena and believe me, it is only a matter of time before it happens with our hobby. When some one buys a $1000 part only to find out it is a $200 repo but it was sold as the real deal they usually want something done.

I think the lesson is that before you sell something that is rare, be sure you know what you have. I said I know nothing about 607 stocks, but it took me about 5 minutes of research to be 100% positive it was a repo. Sellers (and buyers) should do the same with any rare part they are selling. Caveat emptor does not work as a defense. Once again, I apoligize if I came off a little too strongly. If you knew me in person, and know what I do for a living you would understand.
Z09SS
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Posted: 3/27/2010 8:04:19 AM EST


How many times have I looked at that series of pics to JUST NOW notice that the handguards are not 607's.
Specifications tell us what the finished product should be. Processes are how we meet the specification.
crackedcornish
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Posted: 3/27/2010 8:22:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By Z09SS:


How many times have I looked at that series of pics to JUST NOW notice that the handguards are not 607's.


yaeh, it looks like it's an XM177 upper on a 607 lower