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Gamma762
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Posted: 5/29/2010 2:44:42 PM
Originally Posted By JJREA:
That photo looks like it's straight from the movie.

It's spot on for the movie actors and weapons, not so much for the real guys.
This is...a clue. - Pat_Rogers
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SSeric02
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Posted: 5/29/2010 2:52:06 PM
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By rozzi:
I have been reading this thread with great interest. I just finished up a replica of Sergeant First Class Randall Shughart 's M14 using my M1A. During my research I came across the following photo off "onesixthwarriors.com". I thought it could help some members out. It is a close up from a paining made by Jim Dietz, entitled "Valiant Stand". I have read that only 100 prints were made and all went to vets/family members of the Battle of Mogadishu. It is my understanding that Mr. Dietz did a lot of research for the painting and was granted access to members of Delta to "get it right". With all the discussion of Aimpoints being used, it appears to me that both MSG Gordon and SFC Shughart are using Aimpoints in the painting. I don't know for sure what model Master Sergeant Gordon is using, but SFC Shughart's looks to be a 3000. Maybe some of you will see things differently. Anyway, hope this information can help.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj152/36coupe/valiantstand.jpg


I've never done too much research, but the little I did led me to believe that Shughart's M14 probably had a 3x9 on his M14. I didn't read the book though. That photo looks like it's straight from the movie. I don't know. We could beat this dead horse but despite the fact that I have quite a few BHD photos, I've never seen one with either one of those guys or an M14.


Well, Dietz took the time to get the fact Gordon had a 723 with A1 sights and not a 727 with A2 sights (like the movie used) correct. If he got that detail correct I'm inclined to believe he got other details correct.
Cav-Gunner
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Posted: 5/29/2010 5:02:38 PM
Damn this thread would resurface ... causing a severe case of BRD

Projects in the works already
XM177E2 for me
M4 clone for # 1 son
M4 clone for # 2 son

Now it add a BHD! Will it ever end?????
LongTrang
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Posted: 5/29/2010 7:21:33 PM
Originally Posted By DocMike:
Well, I seen enough of everyones "been there - done that" artificially aged rifles that I finally decided I had to do it to one of my own guns. I took the plunge and painted my Blackhawk Down Tribute Rifle and then aged it a little bit. I didn't want to get too carried away with the amount of wear because I would think that in the field if a rifle got too badly worn it probably would get a new coat of paint. Tell me what you think. Do I need to add a little more wear or does it look good as it is.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/BHDcamo1.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/BHDcamo2.jpg

Doc


Doc,
Looking good. I would show more wear on your take down and pivots pins. And anywhere else that would get heavy use or be laid down on/against concrete. Your BHD looks sweet doc!

High Regards,
Sean
TexSquirrel
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Posted: 5/30/2010 2:13:25 AM
DocMike,

What kind/colors of paint did you use to paint your BHD tribute?
KJB
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Posted: 5/30/2010 2:20:10 AM
[Last Edit: 5/30/2010 2:30:27 AM by KJB]
Originally Posted By DocMike:
Well, I seen enough of everyones "been there - done that" artificially aged rifles that I finally decided I had to do it to one of my own guns. I took the plunge and painted my Blackhawk Down Tribute Rifle and then aged it a little bit. I didn't want to get too carried away with the amount of wear because I would think that in the field if a rifle got too badly worn it probably would get a new coat of paint. Tell me what you think. Do I need to add a little more wear or does it look good as it is.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/BHDcamo1.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/BHDcamo2.jpg

Doc


Looks good. Needs more wear on the mag release and right under where the finger rests when it is not on the trigger. I know you can't see in any pics but you should black out the sights with a lighter- not just the front sight but inside the ears. Do the rear sight too. More wear on the receiver extension from retracting stock. Best to shoot it different positions if it is a 4 position as this is what leaves distinctive marks. More wear on the top of the stock from rubbing on the face and or a piece of 100 mile/hr tape on that spot- worn too. Two digit number of choice engraved with sharp tool on the top of the stock visible when rifle is in small arms rack or painted with a paint pen of light green, blue, red, or white under the rear sling mount of the stock. For instance my M4 was number 99 and had both. More wear on the ping pong and lots or wear to the pistol grip- like most of the paint. The nut and other fasteners on the scope would have wear from removing/replacing and or checking for tightness. Often there would be a few sets of marks from the light mount having either been moved forward or back by the individual or by loosening through use. Then go out and shoot it until the barrel turns pink. Later on replace the charging handle with another equally worn yet unpainted example. Of course my experiences with painted M4s didn't start until 2002.....



DocMike
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Posted: 5/30/2010 10:28:36 AM
Thanks to everybody for the tips on how to make the wear look more authentic. I hadn't thought too much about aging the buffer tube, good idea. I did try to "wear" the area where the trigger finger would rest....guess I need to add a little more. I find that the hardest part of artificially aging is making it look real. It's really easy to make the aging look wrong, it's really tough to make it look natural.

Doc
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JJREA
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Posted: 6/1/2010 3:28:35 PM
Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By rozzi:
I have been reading this thread with great interest. I just finished up a replica of Sergeant First Class Randall Shughart 's M14 using my M1A. During my research I came across the following photo off "onesixthwarriors.com". I thought it could help some members out. It is a close up from a paining made by Jim Dietz, entitled "Valiant Stand". I have read that only 100 prints were made and all went to vets/family members of the Battle of Mogadishu. It is my understanding that Mr. Dietz did a lot of research for the painting and was granted access to members of Delta to "get it right". With all the discussion of Aimpoints being used, it appears to me that both MSG Gordon and SFC Shughart are using Aimpoints in the painting. I don't know for sure what model Master Sergeant Gordon is using, but SFC Shughart's looks to be a 3000. Maybe some of you will see things differently. Anyway, hope this information can help.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj152/36coupe/valiantstand.jpg


I've never done too much research, but the little I did led me to believe that Shughart's M14 probably had a 3x9 on his M14. I didn't read the book though. That photo looks like it's straight from the movie. I don't know. We could beat this dead horse but despite the fact that I have quite a few BHD photos, I've never seen one with either one of those guys or an M14.


Well, Dietz took the time to get the fact Gordon had a 723 with A1 sights and not a 727 with A2 sights (like the movie used) correct. If he got that detail correct I'm inclined to believe he got other details correct.


Well, like I said, I've never seen any pics of the M14 and it could be completely right for all I know. I think I got my info from wiki, which has to be correct, right? Anyways, it's all good.
zodtgr8
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Posted: 6/6/2010 9:12:40 PM
Howdy, fellas.
Long-time reader, first time poster.
I set out on my first AR build some time back and since I'm a mere starving college student, I knew that my first AR wouldn't be a tricked-out weapon with all kinds of fancy glass. So, I decided whatever I'd put together, I'd have to run on iron sights until I decided to make the move to optics.
Now, like a lot of you guys, I am a fan of the movie and have read the same books you all have on the details surronding the events of 10/3-4/1993. So, looking at the carbines in the movie, I decided "Why not?"
So, after a little research, I slowly put together my 727-pattern gun modeled after the one carried by the "Hoot" character.

So, without further ado, here she is...
Barrel is 1/7 chrome lined 14.5' by Bushie w/ perm extended A2 FH by RRA and M4 feed ramps on the barrel extension
Upper is by YHM w/ m4 feed ramps
BCG is by LMT
CH is by RRA
Lower is by Liberty Tactical
LPK by DPMS
Stock is a no-name fiberlite stock
Illumination is an vintage round-body SureFire 6P (a pressure switch is on its way in the mail)
The sling I'm running on it is a sort of "home made VTAC" as a previous poster puts it, that I fashioned out of 550 cord, Nylon GI strap and 100mph tape (the one in the pic is an older version that I later re-used after borrowing a buddie's VTAC to figure out how I'd fashion my own sling.
Camouflage was just rattle canned with rustoleum camo paint.
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/119/7/a/Selina_by_zodtgr8.jpg
SSeric02
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Posted: 6/6/2010 10:20:24 PM
Very nice!

Welcome aboard.
DocMike
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Posted: 8/3/2010 1:22:47 AM
Bump, just keepin' it out of the archives.

Doc
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Calgunner
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Posted: 8/3/2010 1:55:38 AM
Originally Posted By DocMike:
Well, my investigation goes on to try to figure out what optics were used in Mogadishu in 1993. I have the 3-Disc Deluxe Edition of the movie, Black Hawk Down and on the last disc there is the History Channel documentary about the events of that fateful day. In the closing credits of the show they show pictures that appear to have been taken in Mogadishu and I spotted this picture (sorry about the bad picture quality, I had to snap the picture of the TV screen with my digital camera.) that with out a doubt shows the gun equipped with an Aimpoint 3000. From everything I have been able to learn I do believe there wasn't one optic used but, rather a few different optics used because I believe they were often acquired by the units themselves or by individual purchases.

Clearly an Aimpoint 3000
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/HistChnlBHD3000.jpg

Same picture, a little larger.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/BHDAIMPOINT3000.jpg

Not so sure of this optic.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/100_1904.jpg

Doc


A2 upper ?????????
pezboytate
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Posted: 8/3/2010 7:40:25 AM
Does anyone have a line on a correct SureFire? It doesn't have to be period correct, but a brand new 6Ps isn't an option.
Dustin
SSeric02
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Posted: 8/3/2010 11:58:00 AM
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
Originally Posted By DocMike:
Well, my investigation goes on to try to figure out what optics were used in Mogadishu in 1993. I have the 3-Disc Deluxe Edition of the movie, Black Hawk Down and on the last disc there is the History Channel documentary about the events of that fateful day. In the closing credits of the show they show pictures that appear to have been taken in Mogadishu and I spotted this picture (sorry about the bad picture quality, I had to snap the picture of the TV screen with my digital camera.) that with out a doubt shows the gun equipped with an Aimpoint 3000. From everything I have been able to learn I do believe there wasn't one optic used but, rather a few different optics used because I believe they were often acquired by the units themselves or by individual purchases.

Clearly an Aimpoint 3000
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/HistChnlBHD3000.jpg

Same picture, a little larger.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/BHDAIMPOINT3000.jpg

Not so sure of this optic.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/100_1904.jpg

Doc


A2 upper ?????????


Well documented in photographs that the Rangers had M16A2s and Colt 727s while the Delta guys seem to have had Colt 723s.
Calgunner
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Posted: 8/3/2010 1:16:18 PM
So my A2 commando build is a Ranger Replica ???
SSeric02
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Posted: 8/3/2010 8:30:50 PM
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Does anyone have a line on a correct SureFire? It doesn't have to be period correct, but a brand new 6Ps isn't an option.
Dustin


Best place to look is the EE and Ebay. There are also some specialty flashlight forums (think Arfcom but for flashlights) if you really get desparate.

zodtgr8
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Posted: 8/13/2010 1:45:50 AM
keepin' the thread alive with an updated pic of my 727 build...
now, with worn out BTDT paint scheme and pressure switch.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/zodtgr8/100_6906.jpg
Lancelot
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Posted: 9/24/2010 11:55:38 PM
[Last Edit: 9/25/2010 12:08:59 AM by Lancelot]
Originally Posted By DocMike:
Well, it's official, I'm collecting parts for a BHD build. I picked up this just a couple of days ago off Gunbroker.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/Aimpoint1000Buy.jpg

Now I've got to start looking for a flashlight and mount.

Doc




I finally hunted mine down. Its an Aimpoint Mark III. It looks similar to the 1000. Still works. I was amazed. Its mounted up. Now I too, am off to hunt the elusive flashlight mount.

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Hal143
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Posted: 9/25/2010 8:40:56 AM
Lancelot
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Posted: 9/25/2010 12:09:09 PM
[Last Edit: 9/25/2010 12:16:45 PM by Lancelot]




Thanks. What's the difference between the 14 and the 16?

ETA

The Surefire M14 Mount provides a Tactical Light mounting base for weapon barrels from 0.5 to 0.75 inches diameter.

Fits barrel diameters 0.5 to 0.9. inches. Also fits under front sight casting of M6/AR15 variants.

Good link with manuals.

M10 ring

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firefighter1241
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Posted: 9/25/2010 1:14:15 PM


Just an FYI I got some mounts from the guy in the first auction. When I got them they are not NIP. They are used and one was a littel bent but it still worked.
SSeric02
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Posted: 9/25/2010 1:40:29 PM
Originally Posted By Lancelot:




Thanks. What's the difference between the 14 and the 16?

ETA

The Surefire M14 Mount provides a Tactical Light mounting base for weapon barrels from 0.5 to 0.75 inches diameter.

Fits barrel diameters 0.5 to 0.9. inches. Also fits under front sight casting of M6/AR15 variants.

Good link with manuals.

M10 ring



I think the M16 mount just comes with longer screws so you can mount it with the top piece through the FSB.
Hal143
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Posted: 9/25/2010 1:42:40 PM
[Last Edit: 9/25/2010 1:47:36 PM by Hal143]
The M16 mount is the proper mount that I have seen for a BHD build. It comes with long screws that can be mounted on the FSB or barrel.
There may also be another mount that is specific for barrel mount only. I don't know the number for that one, but the M16 mount works fine on the barrel or FSB.

I included the M14 link just as a heads up to other mounts he has.

I got 2 from AM180 and both were in the original vintage sealed packages with instructions etc. YMMV.

ETA: Sserico beat me to it Yes longer screws that can be cut or replaced at any Hardware store.

You might try emailing him to see if he still has the M16 mounts NIW. Both mine were NIW, unused, but I wouldn't want to give anyone a false impression.

I'm going to use a standard 1" Weaver ring on mine once I get a vintage 6P
SSeric02
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Posted: 9/25/2010 2:05:46 PM
[Last Edit: 9/25/2010 2:06:47 PM by SSeric02]
Yeah, definitely just buy the two pack of Weaver branded 1" matte finished rings vice the Surefire branded rings. Exactly the same thing with just the difference in packaging and price.

I'm also pretty sure that Surefire is still selling the M14/M16 barrel mounts; at least, Optics Planet still shows them available.

ETA: The M14 mount should work fine on an M4 or CAR-15 barrel.
Lancelot
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Posted: 9/26/2010 7:40:55 PM
Here's what the Aimpoint Mark III looks like mounted up.









It looks like they were discontinued in January 1986.
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