User Panel
That is a great "how to" post Hal! I'm sure it will help a lot of folks that haven't installed their stocks yet. Thanks for taking the time to take photos and write that up.
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Thank You Mark for offering such a great stock !
At the last minute I opted to go with an original 604 upper and the NDS XM16E1 lower instead of the NDS A1 lower. I highly recommend the stock to everyone. The install is really easier than it looks and a lot of fun. Hal |
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Awesome tutorial! OST for this one.
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"Who are you people, and where's my horse?" - George Carlin
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Yes, championship material, thank you. I'm going to use a 604 upper for my 607 build also. I hope to have everything but the anodizing done by the end of next week.
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Awesome pics and "how to"!! Now I have no excuses Two questions though!! 1) Was the stock weld hole on the Nodak the same size (roughly) as the stock bar? And 2) did you drill the retaining pin at a 6deg angle? or just straight through? Very nice job indeed!!
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Originally Posted By retroangles:
Awesome pics and "how to"!! Now I have no excuses Two questions though!! 1) Was the stock weld hole on the Nodak the same size (roughly) as the stock bar? And 2) did you drill the retaining pin at a 6deg angle? or just straight through? Very nice job indeed!! 1. Yes the NDS hole was very close. The lower rod would just barely fit in the lower hole, but a 1/2" end mill bit was used per 65Pans instructions. 2. If you mean the cross-pin, no, it was not drilled at 6 degrees. It was drilled straight across the lower. The buffer retaining spring hole is factory drilled at 6 degrees. They come that way from the factory. At least that's what Iv'e been told. So the bottom of the buffer retainer hole is a little closer to the rear of the receiver than the top. Hal |
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That clears everything up fer me thanks again!!
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You used a 1/2" end mill in a hand drill???
You have some fooking cajones, my friend... |
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<font size=1>Carson: "I'm a fixer, Logan. I fix things."
Logan: "Yeah? What kinda things?" Carson: "Things that need fixin'..." - Flashpoint, 1984</font id=s1> |
Originally Posted By postino:
You used a 1/2" end mill in a hand drill??? You have some fooking cajones, my friend... I thought the same thing, but with the lower already having an existing 1/2" hole I'll bet it wasn't bad. From the pics it looks like Hals gunsmith has a Smithy Granite, I wonder why he didn't use the milling head to do that part? Either way it turned out nice. |
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Since pics of a vintage 607 show the bottom rod drilled through, has anyone gotten brave and drilled all the way through and seen if the buffer retainer spring is happy against the top of the rod?
Are the XM lowers available yet? This is exactly the kind of stupid crap I am known to try. "Z09SS! Ruining parts, so you don't have to!" |
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Specifications tell us what the finished product should be. Processes are how we meet the specification.
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Originally Posted By Z09SS:
Since pics of a vintage 607 show the bottom rod drilled through, has anyone gotten brave and drilled all the way through and seen if the buffer retainer spring is happy against the top of the rod? Are the XM lowers available yet? This is exactly the kind of stupid crap I am known to try. "Z09SS! Ruining parts, so you don't have to!" worse case scenario, you have to redrill the buffer retainer hole a bit deeper and go into the top of the rod. It's pinned so it's not like it's going to move or anything. |
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Originally Posted By Z09SS:
Since pics of a vintage 607 show the bottom rod drilled through, has anyone gotten brave and drilled all the way through and seen if the buffer retainer spring is happy against the top of the rod? Are the XM lowers available yet? This is exactly the kind of stupid crap I am known to try. "Z09SS! Ruining parts, so you don't have to!" The detent wouldn't even fit, much less the spring. The rod would have to be drilled through to accept the spring and detent. I probably would have done this on mine had I known the originals where done this way. I don't think it would be difficult to do, but you have to keep in mind that the detent hole is angled at 6 degrees from vertical. |
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Bravo sir!!! Looks good!! I want mine on.
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Originally Posted By my65pan:
Originally Posted By postino:
You used a 1/2" end mill in a hand drill??? You have some fooking cajones, my friend... I thought the same thing, but with the lower already having an existing 1/2" hole I'll bet it wasn't bad. From the pics it looks like Hals gunsmith has a Smithy Granite, I wonder why he didn't use the milling head to do that part? Either way it turned out nice. Knowing nothing about machining, I handed my gunsmith friend some printed instructions and explained what to do and he was off and running. I figured he would have used the milling head too, but when I said some guys were using hand drills, he thought that sounded good to him. The lower receiver hole took about 10 minutes to do. We kept checking the depth and didn't want to get too far into the buff retainer hole. We talked about going ahead with traversing through the buff retainer hole, but discretion is the better part of valor. Now if I had a few beers, I'd a went for it. |
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Originally Posted By Hal143:
Knowing nothing about machining, I handed my gunsmith friend some printed instructions and explained what to do and he was off and running. If he'd ever had an end mill (and workpiece) go flying out of a vise and embed itself in the wall, he'd probably still be running... When I first started out, running a pantograph mill, I had a sign on my tool box..."Watch Out For Low Flying Tools"... I've progressed since then...Unfortunately, so has CRS... ...Adapt...Improvise...Overcome... |
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<font size=1>Carson: "I'm a fixer, Logan. I fix things."
Logan: "Yeah? What kinda things?" Carson: "Things that need fixin'..." - Flashpoint, 1984</font id=s1> |
I'll have to ask him about that. Knowing Tom, it probably has happened to him before.
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Originally Posted By Hal143:
I'll have to ask him about that. Knowing Tom, it probably has happened to him before. It happens to even the best machinist...once... (If you're like me, you just hang a target on the wall and keep on truckin')... |
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<font size=1>Carson: "I'm a fixer, Logan. I fix things."
Logan: "Yeah? What kinda things?" Carson: "Things that need fixin'..." - Flashpoint, 1984</font id=s1> |
Nice Job HAL143! Your post will defiantly make it allot easier. I know when I installed mine it really wasn't hard to do. The key is taking your time and don't rush it. These stocks are sweet and look like the original when installed. Mark did a great job. I think I'm going to buy another
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Hey mods can we get this thing stickied
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Originally Posted By postino:
It happens to even the best machinist...once... Once? |
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Hal, can you take a close-up picture of how you modified the lip on your buffer tube? I'm curious to see what you did there as I'm sure others are.
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I wish I had done mine that way now, it's hardy noticeable. Thanks for the extra pics.
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This needs to be tacked, seriously.
Excellent presentation and really nice work Hal. |
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Thanks, I just hopes it helps someone.
The process worked for my stock without any glitches. I still can't believe how solid the stock locks up. Hal |
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Very nice Hal! Thanks for the post. I wasn't going to tackle a 607 project but you have talked me into it. Is there a source for the stocks or do I keep watching EE?
Thanks again for taking the time to share. Mil-Surp |
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Originally Posted By Mil-Surp:
Very nice Hal! Thanks for the post. I wasn't going to tackle a 607 project but you have talked me into it. Is there a source for the stocks or do I keep watching EE? Thanks again for taking the time to share. Mil-Surp Thanks milsurp, I got my stock from a member here, MY65PAN. |
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Originally Posted By MarkRSims:
This needs to be tacked, seriously. Excellent presentation and really nice work Hal. Poor mans tack. |
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Hmm or you could just bolt one on :)
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I just found this and I gotta say this is one of the coolest things I've ever seen on ARFCOM! Way to go! If only there was $ for a new retro build.
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I'm really glad this got tacked. Looks like I'll have the time to tackle mine soon. Great thread.
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"Who are you people, and where's my horse?" - George Carlin
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Feel free to contact me if I can be of any help.
Hal |
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Originally Posted By WA-Tom:
Hmm or you could just bolt one on :) Well, while we're at it. I cut and pasted this one from the archives. I thought about pulling up the first post but this one is going to suck up some bandwidth due to the number of photos. I thought I'd share this with those looking to build the XM607 or just purchase one of the stocks that will soon be on the market. Let's get started, shall we? This is the before of the before and after photos. The XM177E2 is complete, waiting to be converted to the XM607 configuration. Here's the back end. Here's the front end. Sorry the photo is phuzzy, not sure how that happened. It takes a 1/8 American (Let me get a HELL YEAH!) allen wrench to get started. Simply remove the screw that retains the selector lever. With the screw out the lever will just slide off of the end of the shaft. The shaft can then be pushed through the stock along with the buffer tube. This is as far as the stock needs to be disassembled to install it on your receiver. This photo shows how the internal parts interact. The pin goes through the shaft which is inside of the outer tube. The outer tube controls the position of the stock via two slots which are 180 degrees opposite of each other. This photo shows how the spring loaded ball bearing provides just enough resistance to keep the selector lever in position. That prevents the stock from inadvertently collapsing. This photo shows how the end of the control shaft is assembled by welding. Looks like a pretty good job to me! If you are removing a stock from your receiver make sure that you don't let this spring fly out. Also take care not to kink it or bend it when unscrewing the buffer tube. Speaking of unscrewing the buffer tube, make sure that while you are focused on the takedown pin detent spring that you don't let this one rocket out of the receiver. It can cause physical pain, watering eyes, and severe cursing. These are the parts that you don't want to loose. This is the rear of the lower receiver ready to have the 607 stock installed. Notice that the nut that holds the center shaft will fit inside of the recess in the rear of the receiver. This is how the buffer tube and center shaft assembly should look once assembled. Don't forget to put your takedown pin, detent, and spring back in first as well as the buffer retaining detent and spring. This is a view from the rear. The buffer tube has no wrench flats and no screwdriver slots. It must be tightened with a strap wrench. If you are adventurous you could drill a hole through the rear of the tube and insert a rod through it. I chose to use a strap wrench. Well, now we are getting somewhere. The stock simply slides back onto the buffer tube and center shaft assembly. The selector lever and screw go back on in reverse of the order in which they came off. Don't go gorilla on the screw, just snug it up good. Use some blue loc-tite if it makes you feel better. Here it is open. Here it is closed. The lock up is snug in both positions with no rattling and no side to side play. It's nice and tight. This is the after of the before and after photos. Now it is ready to be converted to an XM177E2. We'll save that for another day. Here's the XM607 waiting to go to the machine gun shoot. It looks so excited I don't see how it can contain itself. I'll be posting some more photos after the shoot as well as an after action report on the performance of the stock. I took some measurements of the slots so hopefully there won't be much of a change there. VIDEO! 45Bravo out. |
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Actually there's no need to take the TSI stocks apart to install. Just open the stock, make sure your rear takedown spring is captured, put a strap wrench on the buffer tube, and tighten it up. Done.
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45Bravo - that is one righteous looking 607! It ought to make waves at the MG shoot! Let us know how people like it, and how it performs.
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"Who are you people, and where's my horse?" - George Carlin
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During our installation process, I was limited on how many pics I could take of each little step due to being in a busy shop.
If there is a step you need described in detail, or if I can draw you a better picture of something, just IM me, or email me. Thanks, Hal143 |
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Hal, you did a real good job of documenting how you went about it. If my friend GunsnFins ever gets around to installing his I plan to be there to take lots of pictures to post myself.
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Thanks Mark, I'm hearing from a couple people who are fixing to install their stocks soon.
Hal |
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During this next run of stocks I'm going to try to photograph/document how I go about fitting the hardware to the donor stocks to add to the knowledge base here in the retro forum. If I do another run I'll do the same with the fabrication of the hardware.
Edit: Link to how I fit the hardware to the donor stocks. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=430680 |
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Looking for damaged green 601 handguards.
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Could someone point me to where the pics of the original 607 rod being drilled all the way through? I have a stock coming from Mark, and I would like to give it a try. Thanks
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Originally Posted By missiondude:
Could someone point me to where the pics of the original 607 rod being drilled all the way through? I have a stock coming from Mark, and I would like to give it a try. Thanks Here you go. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=414249 |
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Looking for damaged green 601 handguards.
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Thanks alot Mark. The stock looks great. I did not realize how far the rod went int the receiver.
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Getting the rod into the receiver will be the easy part. Getting the buffer retainer hole drilled through the rod at 6 degrees is another thing. Rigging up something on a sine plate is how I would go about it.
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Looking for damaged green 601 handguards.
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Dean
If your reading this, then you've found the thread. Let me know if I can be of any more help. Hal |
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Sweet!. Does seem like quite task though
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I installed mine the same way Hal143 did his. I memorized his instructions, and it went off without a hitch.
The only deviation was the equipment used. I put my 1/2" centercutting end mill bit in a drillpress, and leveled my "in the white" NDS XM lower into a drillpress vise. Then I clamped the vise to the drillpress base with two bigass C clamps! Instead of using a grinding wheel to finish/square the end of the locking rod, I used an upright belt sander. If one was to try the original method of putting the rod through the buffer detent/spring area and drilling the 6 degree hole through the rod, how would one loosen and back out the buffer tube to install the retainer and spring? Or would you just disassemble the stock, install the rod and tube, and then reassemble the stock?? I could just see springs and detents being launched into orbit, so that's why I just decided to go with a tried and true method of installation. Thank you Hal143 for the excellent tutorial, and thank you my65pan for the works of art you've shared with us! |
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One of these days I'll get around to putting mine on.
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Run with scissors!!!!
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Originally Posted By coctailer:
One of these days I'll get around to putting mine on. Do it ! |
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