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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 9:46:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Malikovski]
I’ve wanted a retro shotty to keep my A1 and XM177E2 clones company for a while. It started with this pic from a book:
I don’t know why, but I really liked the look of the Stevens 77E, and it fit in nicely with my retro AR builds. The civvy version of these shotguns are also CHEAP, when you can find them, so it’s a really inexpensive project. Here’s the only period pic I have found so far: 
Last week I finally found a “donor” shotgun, and started this weekend. I’ll post my progress here, since I know at least one other guy on this board has a similar project, and I believe others have built them in the past. If you’ve got pics or one of your own, please post them here. I would love to see more, especially period pics. First, here’s the donor shotgun as it arrived: 
It a Springfield 67E, which is very similar to the Stevens 77E which the military modified and issued in Vietnam. Mine has a slide safety rather than the push button, but was otherwise standard with a 2 3/4” chamber and 28” barrel. The plan of the build is as follows, not in order: Cut the barrel to 20” and re-install bead sight
Replace commercial stock with original military stock Add sling swivels Possibly parkerize, although the brown patina on the gun is really nice First thing I did was acquire a military stock and rear swivel: 
Since mine has the slide safety, there were some differences in the stock inletting that had to be addressed: 
A few hours with a jig saw, rasps, and sandpaper produced a decent reproduction: 
Shortening the barrel was a simple matter: 
And the result of the first weekend of work is encouraging: 
Since I had no use for the commercial buttstock, I decided to make a Tropic Thunder special: 
(Yes, it is over legal length.) Next steps: Face the barrel with Clymer’s tool and install a new bead sight
Do final fitting and finish work on the buttstock and buttplate That saves the most difficult part for last...fabricating a new front sling swivel. |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 9:55:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Cool!
Where did you get the military buttstock? |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 9:58:44 PM EDT
[#2]
The old beat up look, "been there" is the way to go. I like the full stock version.
A while back I saw some pics of the opening of a box of Garands at the CMP. They pulled one Garand out where the stock was hacked like above. It was a door gunner Garand from Nam. I wonder what the CMP did with that gem. Hal |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:08:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Very nice i like it.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:09:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Numrich has them from $9, with the sling swivel. You can get the commercial guns for $100. Real easy project except for the front sling swivel.
It will wear the full stock normally. The pistol grip was just for fun, although I do plan to finish shaping it and cut down a stock bolt so I can use it.
Sold it at auctions for thousands of $$$ probably! Or one of their employees snagged it. I wouldn't have paeed it up! |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:15:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#5]
Nice looking project, I just did something similar with a Remington 870, cut the barrel to 18". According to the letter code it was made in 1962. More Nam shotgun pics here including the one you show above.
www.filairsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20173&page=2 |
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:19:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hal143]
[#6]
My Nam era 870 Wingmaster. Horrid finish. Found in a city dump. Checked out and cleared as just a throw away. Slick and works fine.
I remember a film clip of some fast movers smokin' some of Ho Chi Minh's best through either a Stevens or an Ithaca 37 in the bush. Gives true meaning to the term shotgun. Yeah, the Chopped Garand was amazing. It had tape on the grip and the remaining stock was carved with initials and dates, etc. I guess it was DEROS'd back to the states like any other weapon. 
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:23:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VAAR]
[#7]
Looks good so far. I did that with a Winchester '97. Used a tubing cutter too. You may want to use a flare tool on the inside of the barrel, prevents fliers...
ETA: read it again, that Clymer ought to do it... |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:30:56 PM EDT
[#8]
You gotta parkerize it!
Have you found the recoil pad yet? |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:33:21 PM EDT
[#9]
That's a sweet project. Well done.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:54:29 PM EDT
[#10]
It was my plan to park it, but the patina is really nice and looks OLD. It doesn't show well in the pics, but it's really brown throughout. I think I will end up doing two of these. This is the one I am learning on, since it's not quite correct (marked Springfield 67E, and with the slide safety). Once I find a correctly marked and configured 77E, I'll build a more exact clone, and have it properly parked (if someone has an appropriate 77E to sell, please contact by email or IM--not in this thread per the forum rules). Haven't even started looking for the pad yet...but looks pretty standard. Any suggestions? Also, if you have any words of wisdom on getting the lifter to work, please IM me. I've replaced all the springs but the damn thing still won't budge when the action cycles. I did get the bolt stop working, but the lifter...  Also, thanks to all who've replied with kind words. I've never posted a blow-by-blow of a project before, mainly because I've never done anything unique enough to justify it, but I thought this one might be of interest to my fellow retro junkies... |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:06:21 PM EDT
[#11]
I have a 12ga pump marked "STEVENS Savage Arms Corporation Model 820B"
That was passed down by my grandfather and It looks very similar to one carried in the posted picture except for the sling mounts and a little less trigger guard. O and of course My last name stamped on it. Gramps liked to due that with his things. And I don't mind one little bit. I'll post a picture of it tomorrow. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:07:55 PM EDT
[#12]
That's a cool project. I've had an Ithica 37 on my wish list for some time now, for a similar retro idea.
Lee |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:16:15 PM EDT
[#13]
nice project, eagerly awaiting more.
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:40:23 PM EDT
[#14]
tag...and damn you!
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:50:35 PM EDT
[#15]
I just need a riot barrel for my 37. Although it's not anywhere's near what they probably looked like. It's close.
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Posted: 8/27/2008 12:01:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Are there any good websites out there that have information on Vietnam era shotguns?
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Posted: 8/27/2008 12:05:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: innocent_bystander]
[#17]
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Posted: 8/27/2008 2:26:30 AM EDT
[#18]
After cutting the barrel what sort of pattern did you have? I just did a Remington from 26"-18" and it has abt 18" @ 25' I'm not happy with it!!
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Posted: 8/27/2008 8:52:51 AM EDT
[#19]
#1 search word on Gunbroker right now is "77E"
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2008 9:15:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Really?! I guess I can give up on picking up another one then!  You won't find much searching 77E. I've seen one gun marked Stevens 77E since I started looking a few months ago. You will find a LOT looking under Springfield or Savage 67. I set up a persistent search on GB, plus posted WTB threads on half a dozen boards...and did not find a Stevens. That's why I eventually decided to do one with a Springfield 67 donor. How do you see top searches on GB? Re: patterning, I haven't fired it before or after shortening, so I can't say. I need to face the barrel first in any case, as the pipe cutter left a nasty ridge of metal around the inside of the muzzle. After that though, it should be perfectly flat and square, so we'll see. |
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Posted: 8/27/2008 9:39:55 AM EDT
[#21]
I've always used a hacksaw, file, and 90 deg machinists ruler.
After you have it square, roll the edges of the crown by spinning it on fine sand paper, then scotchbrite. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2008 9:52:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#22]
 I wonder if they ever used them with the longer barrels? I think I've seen a pic in WWII that they did for foraging during the bulge or something. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2008 10:41:37 AM EDT
[#23]
I think Coctailer just meant that you have interested so many of us retro geeks with your cool project that now we will all be looking for one.  Seriously, I think your project is very cool. I've always wanted an Ithaca 37 because they are the LAPD shotguns. They looked so cool in the hands of Reed and Malloy on "Adam-12". Now you've inspired me to get one.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2008 11:07:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Wow...remind me not to post before noon. Totally missed the joke. |
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Posted: 8/27/2008 12:21:43 PM EDT
[#25]
I like it!!!
Great project. |
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Posted: 8/27/2008 1:08:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Long barrel shotguns will be found with military markings, they were mostly used for aerial gunnery training. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2008 4:00:45 PM EDT
[#27]
I had heard something like that. Maybe I can have an Air Force retro collection when I put my LW carbine barrel on my A2 upper. Mine is definitely not a genuine military shotgun. My dad bought it new.
I would really like a short barrel for it though. They seem to be hard to find. I haven't looked overly hard though. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2008 4:52:36 PM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 8/27/2008 5:16:32 PM EDT
[#29]
I don't know about the longer barrels but I passed a few military Ithacas in the past that I wish I had purchased. One was a factory 8 shot with oiled wood for $225. Now worth 400+.
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Posted: 8/27/2008 6:06:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer]
[#30]
I'll draw you a diagram next time You really have everyone excited about this project of yours. I know I'll be scouring the dusty gun racks in the back of the local gun shopps 
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Posted: 8/27/2008 10:11:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Since we're showing off Savages......
I guess I've had a good head start with this one for a while now. Model 69RXL Trench/Riot 12ga. Had it for a long time and it's functioned flawlessly since I tweaked it after the first time out. Savage's with this platform are known to have their quirks but if you understand them and correct them they're kickass pump guns. ( the sling I just tossed on there to be in the spirit of retro and giddy with everyone tonight ) 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2008 10:29:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#32]
The action on that one is silky smooth. Only problem is it chokes on low brass. I think most brass is high now though. I could be wrong though. I like everyones shotguns though! |
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Posted: 8/27/2008 11:08:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Geez, that's slick. Is it an SBS? If not, how long is the barrel? |
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Posted: 8/27/2008 11:26:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: I_M_2_SANE]
[#34]
Barrel is 18" but it has a full mag tube. I loved the look of the full tube, added capacity, the plain wood with ribbed grip ( the wood has little to no sheen, picture shows shine but it's just stain and oil ) and overall simplicity of the gun. It's got a top safety too.
It's a great shooter @ close range out performs other sg's that I have with rifle sights! ( something that always would piss off my shooting buddy on "shotgun night" at the range ) I picked this shotty up about 10 years ago and sold another Savage I had because I liked this one better. I'm normally a Remington fan when it comes to pump guns but there's a special place in my heart for the old Savages. This one is a keeper, as it's immaculate ( like new looking ) and never fails to put that stupid grin on my face when I shoot it. The picture is not the best, but it's got the same butt pad style as the OP's first picture ( with the little T shaped air pockets ). The pad still has sharp corners like it was just taken out of the box. I'm curious to see what everyone comes up with for sling swivels/mounts, as right now it's just got standard QD loops on it. I litterally just tossed the loops and cotton sling on it tonight for the "retro" look to keep in line with this thread. The rear sling stud is threaded into the wood and the front is a machine thread that threads into the boss on the barrel, securing the mag tube end plug. Any questions on this particular model Savage or if any closer pictures are needed let me know. |
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Posted: 8/28/2008 12:13:50 AM EDT
[#35]
Ha, I was just about to do that! To the OP - awesome results on a cool project! |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/28/2008 4:34:57 AM EDT
[#36]
What kind of quirks are they known for? |
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Posted: 8/28/2008 8:54:03 AM EDT
[#37]
I've had the Clymer Muzzle Facing Tool (available from Brownell's) for several years now; done close to a dozen barrels...I can tell you that if you follow the advertising at Brownell's and use a hand drill, it will leave chatter marks...but chucking the barrel in a lathe and the facing tool in the tailstock chuck will give a nice smooth cut with no chatter marks...
 I've also found that 20" seems to be the ideal length for a 12ga scattergun...
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/28/2008 12:25:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Update: Stock finishing
Wow. Some nice pics in this thread. I am definitely adding the model 69 to my WTB list! I started finishing the stock while waiting on the barrel facer and other parts, so I thought I'd post the progress pics, as well as some info on the stock. All the military 77's I've seen have the very distinctive mottled black/brown stock. The dark color is some kind of stain, and I think originally the stocks may have been completely dark, and lightened through use. I'm not sure though, as I have three of the stocks which all appear unissued, yet they all have some degree of mottling. Since I had to do some cutting on the stock, I discovered that the wood below is quite ligth in color. I'm not a woodworker, so I couldn't tell you what kind it is. Fortunately, the stain I had on hand, "R. Gale Lock Co. Dark Walnut Gun Stock Stain #69," was a perfect match, and I was able to blend in the freshly cut areas:  Next I applied two coats of pure tung oil, mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits. The wood was BONE DRY. The first application was really several, as the wood was soaking it up as I went. I expect more coats will be needed once the latest fully dries.  Of the three stocks I have, two have proof marks--stamped RRAD on the side of the stock and a square P on the pistol grip. I was told by the wise ones here that RRAD is the Red River Army Depot.  Here are the two other stocks as they came to me, dusty, dirty, and dry:   The top one has the RRAD and P proofs, the lower one has no marks at all, except some letters and numbers stamped on the back of the stock (too dark to photograh), which are similar on all three. All three stocks also came with sling swivels. Two were heavily rusted, but one had pristine park:  This photo came out too dark. The park is actually the medium grey color about like A1 M16 receivers. It matches my original uppers anyway. More to come…next time I’ll post the photos I have of various sling attachments. That’s the only real conundrum of the project, as it may require custom-made parts. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 8/28/2008 4:17:43 PM EDT
[#39]
There's not really that much diff between the 77 & the 67. IIRC on the early ones the internal threaded tang for the trigger group is longer/larger <??> & the shell stop dimifidgets aren't the same as the 30 or 67. The main problem with Savage/Stevens/Springfield pumps are that they made them in so many variations & for so many years it can be a pain in re to parts. Thumb safety vs crossbolt, fixed barrel vs take down, early take down barrel threads vs late, multiple series (A, B, C, D....) that may slightly differ, etc. I have a few, a long barreled thumb safety Fudd special for birds/bunnies & a shortened up crossbolt safety burglar blaster. They're fairly nice shotguns, esp for the price used ones go for. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/28/2008 8:31:27 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 8/28/2008 8:39:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: I_M_2_SANE]
[#41]
I know of at least four that have been through my hands that had or would have had the same problem if it had not been addressed. The cartridge stop has a screw that holds it in place along the inside of the receiver. The screw will loosten up to the point that it does not ride on the bushing correctly and will lock the shotgun up solid. Out of nowhere the pump action will not come back and the gun will be stuck like this unless you take it apart and correct the problem. There is a staking on the threaed bushing that is supposed to hold the screw tight inside it. If anyone has ever taken it apart without knowing this or the staking was not done correctly originally ( we all know about staking from our AR's and what a controversy it is if it's not done correctly ) the screw will work it's way out and cause the malfunction.
 Part#'s 44,46 and 47 are what I'm talking about. Put a dot of loctite on the threads to ensure this will not loosten up with normal use. I've done this to two that were about to have failure and two that had already failed, so I'd call this a common problem that should be inspected before you decide to put your life on the line with this style Savage. I've also seen some spring failures in the trigger groups but nothing consistent. The springs in these guns are not real robust, but if kept in the right place and clean, they should be fine for a real long time. I've dealt with Numrich also in the past with very good results for parts for these pattern shotguns. Disclaimer: I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I portray one on TV. Use advice at your own risk. Fixing or repairing this little screw does not mean that you will win a gun battle with your Savage shotgun. Do not eat the brown acid. Do not eat the big mint in the urinal in the men's room. |
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Posted: 8/28/2008 8:41:16 PM EDT
[#42]
RRAD was indeed Red River Army Depot, just outside Texarkana. The other Texas facility that did rebuilding was San Antonio Arsenal, which used the SAA stamp. I mention SAA because these two were the only arsenals/repair facilities that used the square "P" proof stamp. All others either used a plain "P" or the P enclosed in a circle.
The older Red River Depot work was stamped RRD instead of RRAD, if-n I recall correctly. The mottled stock is probably stained birch. Lots of birch was used in the rebuild/clean & repair programs of the 50's and 60's. I have an M1 with a birch stock that went thru RRAD that looks just like it. An enormous book could be written about the clean & repair programs from WWII thru the 60's. It was massive..... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2008 5:57:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Here are before and after pictures of my Steven Model 67E. I don't have a picture of it before I cut the barrel on it.
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Posted: 8/31/2008 8:07:26 PM EDT
[#44]
What finish did you use?
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Posted: 8/31/2008 8:22:07 PM EDT
[#45]
besides the 77E wasn't the Ithaca 37 and the Rem 870 used in Vietnam?
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Posted: 8/31/2008 8:48:45 PM EDT
[#46]
My retro is a Winchester 1897 E take down model made in 1911 the barrel is shorten to about 20 inches.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2008 9:28:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Gin Kote Flat Grey after a good sand blasting |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 8/31/2008 10:19:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Where's the pic? 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2008 3:54:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Yup, Ithaca's were reported to be used as well as Model 12s and 870s. Here's my Ithaca 37:
 Now when I was stationed in Italy back in the late 80s, we also used Winchester 1200s that were certainly old enough ...and beat enough, to have been around during the Vietnam war as well. Here's a pic I lifted from Gunbroker that depicts what we were carrying. The only thing that is different was we had a rear sling swivel and the trench gun heat shield you see on the old 1897 Winchester guns. 
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IA, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2008 6:26:53 PM EDT
[#50]
 Norinco copy of the Winchester M97 trenchgun... |
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