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GreyWolf87
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Posted: 6/13/2006 3:01:17 PM
[Last Edit: 6/13/2006 3:03:45 PM by GreyWolf87]
I am a noob with both ARs and Retros but just purchased an A1 upper. I intend on refinishing both the upper and new Stag lower reciever to match. I was thinking of going with Norrells Moly Resin and was wondering what color best matches an old school M16A1 finnish? I was also considering refinishing the stock and handgaurds. What color would any veteran refinishers suggest for the furniture? Oh and if anyone has any pictures of their finshed pieces so that I can get an idea of the color please post them.
QUIB
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Posted: 6/13/2006 3:03:53 PM
Tag.

I'm interested myself. Rebuilding my sons CAR/GAU clone since he out grew the M261 conversion kit.
AERO SCOUTS........Un-armed and un-afraid!

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R-32
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Posted: 6/13/2006 3:18:48 PM
If somebody wants to try and get DaBunny to post the pic's of my A-1 that we did up in the real Sandstrom 9a it turned out awesome..little light at first, but after some use it darkened up real nice...

I just cant find the pics right now, and I know he has them here somewhere.
We are all here, because we are not all there.
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GreyWolf87
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Posted: 6/13/2006 3:25:14 PM
I just found these colors available on Norrell's website.

GRAYISH-BLACK Flat
Dark gray-black coloration with a flat appearance. This duplicates the appearance of the early original Colt AR-15/M-16 finish. This is the same product that is purchased from us by the U.S. Military to refinish Colt M-16's.

GRAY Flat
A match to older gray military parkerizing including some very early Colt M-16 rifles. Gray flat in coloration with an almost unnoticeable (except under certain lighting conditions) a very slight tint of green. This is a lighter shade of gray than our Greenish-Gray.

GREENISH-GRAY Flat
This is an exact Mil-Spec color match to the U.S. Military parkerizing seen on older military firearms there are turned slightly green due to storage in cosmoline. Base color is grayish-black flat.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is best to match old M16 parkerizing? Also I have been hearing alot about Norrell's vs Duracoat. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is better?
R-32
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Posted: 6/13/2006 3:32:40 PM

Originally Posted By GreyWolf87:

Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is best to match old M16 parkerizing? Also I have been hearing alot about Norrell's vs Duracoat. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is better?



Sandstrom 9A...

Get the real deal. goes on with a airbrush. also is a dry lube built in, after it is dry ( baked on) give it a light coat of oil, and that is all there is to it.

I have also tried the Norells, and to be honest I like it, but it is not as tough. the Duracoat is good stuff also but I only used that on my AK's
We are all here, because we are not all there.
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GreyWolf87
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Posted: 6/13/2006 3:35:15 PM

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By GreyWolf87:

Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is best to match old M16 parkerizing? Also I have been hearing alot about Norrell's vs Duracoat. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is better?



Sandstrom 9A...

Get the real deal.h
I have also tried the Norells, and to be honest I like it, but it is not as tough. the Duracoat is good stuff also but I only used that on my AK's



Thanks Cool.
eklikwhoa
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Posted: 6/13/2006 4:04:52 PM

Originally Posted By GreyWolf87:
I just found these colors available on Norrell's website.

GRAYISH-BLACK Flat
Dark gray-black coloration with a flat appearance. This duplicates the appearance of the early original Colt AR-15/M-16 finish. This is the same product that is purchased from us by the U.S. Military to refinish Colt M-16's.

GRAY Flat
A match to older gray military parkerizing including some very early Colt M-16 rifles. Gray flat in coloration with an almost unnoticeable (except under certain lighting conditions) a very slight tint of green. This is a lighter shade of gray than our Greenish-Gray.

GREENISH-GRAY Flat
This is an exact Mil-Spec color match to the U.S. Military parkerizing seen on older military firearms there are turned slightly green due to storage in cosmoline. Base color is grayish-black flat.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is best to match old M16 parkerizing? Also I have been hearing alot about Norrell's vs Duracoat. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is better?




thats the one i used on mine
FUNction over form

my replies consist of my opinions, my $0.02 worth so take it or leave it
Dog1
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Posted: 6/13/2006 4:37:30 PM

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By GreyWolf87:
I just found these colors available on Norrell's website.

GRAYISH-BLACK Flat
Dark gray-black coloration with a flat appearance. This duplicates the appearance of the early original Colt AR-15/M-16 finish. This is the same product that is purchased from us by the U.S. Military to refinish Colt M-16's.

GRAY Flat
A match to older gray military parkerizing including some very early Colt M-16 rifles. Gray flat in coloration with an almost unnoticeable (except under certain lighting conditions) a very slight tint of green. This is a lighter shade of gray than our Greenish-Gray.

GREENISH-GRAY Flat
This is an exact Mil-Spec color match to the U.S. Military parkerizing seen on older military firearms there are turned slightly green due to storage in cosmoline. Base color is grayish-black flat.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is best to match old M16 parkerizing? Also I have been hearing alot about Norrell's vs Duracoat. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is better?




thats the one i used on mine



Yep..me too..
"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all. This job goes south, there well may not be another. So here is us, on the raggedy edge. Don't push me, and I won't push you."

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QUIB
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Posted: 6/13/2006 8:38:57 PM
I was looking at the Gun Kote spray can finishes on the Brownells web site. Can anyone suggest which color for a retro re-build?
AERO SCOUTS........Un-armed and un-afraid!

Thanks Aimless!
Dog1
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Posted: 6/13/2006 9:22:37 PM

Originally Posted By QUIB:
I was looking at the Gun Kote spray can finishes on the Brownells web site. Can anyone suggest which color for a retro re-build?



I would stay away from the Brownell's bake-on spray...I have had hit-n-miss luck with them.

Get the Norrell's Colt Gray-Black. I love that stuff for refinishing.
"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all. This job goes south, there well may not be another. So here is us, on the raggedy edge. Don't push me, and I won't push you."

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Ekie
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Posted: 6/14/2006 6:01:27 PM
Colt did not and does not use Sandstrom 9A. From day one Colt has coated the inside of the upper and receiver extention with a solid film lubracant though, just not the brand mentioned, and not on the outside.
there is nothing new or revolutionary about the SCAR, it's the same old FN formula that they've been trying to hawk for years. Still, if it does the job and floats your boat..........LeitnerWise, 2006

R-32
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Posted: 6/15/2006 4:33:47 AM
[Last Edit: 6/15/2006 4:48:44 AM by R-32]

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Colt did not and does not use Sandstrom 9A. From day one Colt has coated the inside of the upper and receiver extention with a solid film lubracant though, just not the brand mentioned, and not on the outside.



Not saying you are wrong but,

What did they use?...

Im using the exact formula called for refinish of military M-16's even has the same NSN and CAGE numbers, and matches darn near to perfection. ( It is a tiny bit light at first until you rub in a coat of oil or let it get dirty). comes in Gry or black only. It is not a paint, It is a dry film coating that is baked on at 400' in a convection oven ( for touch up of shiny metal) or during the hard coat anodizing process.


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QUIB
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Posted: 6/15/2006 9:24:38 AM
[Last Edit: 6/15/2006 9:28:07 AM by QUIB]

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Colt did not and does not use Sandstrom 9A. From day one Colt has coated the inside of the upper and receiver extention with a solid film lubracant though, just not the brand mentioned, and not on the outside.



Not saying you are wrong but,

What did they use?...

Im using the exact formula called for refinish of military M-16's even has the same NSN and CAGE numbers, and matches darn near to perfection. ( It is a tiny bit light at first until you rub in a coat of oil or let it get dirty). comes in Gry or black only. It is not a paint, It is a dry film coating that is baked on at 400' in a convection oven ( for touch up of shiny metal) or during the hard coat anodizing process.






Do you have the NSN and MIL Spec handy?

I have a couple cans of Dry Film Lube I picked up from the airlines, it's called TIOLUBE 70 NATO Code S-749 MIL-L-23398 and MIL-L-46147, CAGE CODE 34568. I wonder if this is suitable to refinish receivers? I've used it on mags with good results.
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Ekie
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Posted: 6/15/2006 1:56:22 PM

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Colt did not and does not use Sandstrom 9A. From day one Colt has coated the inside of the upper and receiver extention with a solid film lubracant though, just not the brand mentioned, and not on the outside.



Not saying you are wrong but,

What did they use?...

Im using the exact formula called for refinish of military M-16's even has the same NSN and CAGE numbers, and matches darn near to perfection. ( It is a tiny bit light at first until you rub in a coat of oil or let it get dirty). comes in Gry or black only. It is not a paint, It is a dry film coating that is baked on at 400' in a convection oven ( for touch up of shiny metal) or during the hard coat anodizing process.





Not sure what you mean by "they" in that question.

This is the best on-line explanation of the factory original M16 finish I know of:

www.fulton-armory.com/Mil_Spec.htm

Anyhow, don't know what brand Colt uses on the inside of the uppers and receiver extension tube, but did talk to Sandstrom, and they do not sell to Colt. And do know that Colt does not coat the outside of the upper, and no SFL is use on the lower. If you cut or pry a factory original USGI upper apart you can easily see the coating on the inside of the upper.

As far as how refinishing is handled in the service, not something I have spent time studying, but do know SFL is one method used to refinish M16 upper and lowers, and anodizing is not used. Wpnsman has spent more time studying rebuilds then anyone else I know. He would be the one to ask. When Colt refinishes a upper and or lower they anodize it. Never heard of them refinishing USGI weapons though.
there is nothing new or revolutionary about the SCAR, it's the same old FN formula that they've been trying to hawk for years. Still, if it does the job and floats your boat..........LeitnerWise, 2006

MOMIL
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Posted: 6/17/2006 12:21:39 AM
Has anyone sent an upper / lower to US Anodizing? I would love to have anodized lowers in early grey if they could match up and do a good job. My spray finished are starting to look a little worn.
FMJ
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Posted: 6/17/2006 9:19:33 AM
I have a OLD COLT M16A1 ARMORER/DEPOT manual CM102 REVISED 1980



LACQUER: Black ( jet ) Lusterless Acrylic NitroCellulose Type ( touch up )

FEDERAL SPECIFICATION TT-l-50D, Type 1

or U.S. Specification MIL-L 19538 COLOR 37038


Hope that Helps Some
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Posted: 6/18/2006 5:08:39 PM
?
Ekie
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Posted: 6/18/2006 5:20:43 PM
Far as best match out of the bottle for a 1970's or early 1980's upper my favorite is Norrell's semi-gloss grayish black. It is a custom color, have to order a least a gallon:



My preferred method is to mix Norrell's colors to match a particular upper.

If using a older off brand lower, such as Eagle, or a PWA I just send it to Victor to be reanodized, in that the anodizing used on these older lowers is sub standard (the exception being some of the later Eagle A1 lowers done in gray).
there is nothing new or revolutionary about the SCAR, it's the same old FN formula that they've been trying to hawk for years. Still, if it does the job and floats your boat..........LeitnerWise, 2006

SirSqueeboo
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Posted: 6/18/2006 6:21:05 PM

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By GreyWolf87:

Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is best to match old M16 parkerizing? Also I have been hearing alot about Norrell's vs Duracoat. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is better?



Sandstrom 9A...

Get the real deal. goes on with a airbrush. also is a dry lube built in, after it is dry ( baked on) give it a light coat of oil, and that is all there is to it.

I have also tried the Norells, and to be honest I like it, but it is not as tough. the Duracoat is good stuff also but I only used that on my AK's



any pics of the sandstrom on your receivers?
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R-32
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Posted: 6/18/2006 7:33:53 PM

Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By GreyWolf87:

Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is best to match old M16 parkerizing? Also I have been hearing alot about Norrell's vs Duracoat. Does anybody have any suggestions as to which is better?



Sandstrom 9A...

Get the real deal. goes on with a airbrush. also is a dry lube built in, after it is dry ( baked on) give it a light coat of oil, and that is all there is to it.

I have also tried the Norells, and to be honest I like it, but it is not as tough. the Duracoat is good stuff also but I only used that on my AK's



any pics of the sandstrom on your receivers?



DaBunny has them here somewhere, We posted a bunch of them last summer in the Build it yourself forums, I will see if he can get them reposted.
I, too, respect Lt. Ehren Watada for the courage of his convictions, and I hope they comfort the Grandstanding Fuckstick for the next 25 years in a cell at Ft. Leavenworth.~DaBunny

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shooter243
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Posted: 6/21/2006 12:08:16 AM
I do bake om powder coats and Parkerizing
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Posted: 6/21/2006 5:33:37 PM
[Last Edit: 6/21/2006 5:34:11 PM by cyclicyouth]

Originally Posted By MOMIL:
Has anyone sent an upper / lower to US Anodizing? I would love to have anodized lowers in early grey if they could match up and do a good job. My spray finished are starting to look a little worn.



I've used Victor's services at usanodizing twice. He anodized and colored a lower to match a new Colt m16a1 upper for me. It was closer than Norrells' Colt grey and I was happy with it.
Model_One
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Posted: 7/8/2006 12:53:18 AM
I built M16, XM16E1, M16A1 & M16A2 replicas using original, correct vintage GI parts, and the Norrell Colt Gray was a perfect match. Be careful not to overcook it, or it will change the color just enough to mismatch, my first one came out a little off. I took care after that to keep the temp at exactly 300 for the specified time, and the match is so good you can't see any difference.
Dawg180
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Posted: 7/13/2006 2:13:45 AM
For those of us who are lazy and cheap but want a close match, has anyone tried Brownells Alumahyde II in the 'Dark Gray Parkerizing' color?
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Schmeghead
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Posted: 7/13/2006 4:26:27 AM
[Last Edit: 7/13/2006 6:57:56 AM by Schmeghead]
Where can you BUY Sandstrom9?

And are there any refinishers who can do the job with the Sandstrom9 stuff? Does Essential Arms do refinishing?

Pics would be appreciated of all refinished A1's....
Schmeghead
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Posted: 7/13/2006 6:50:31 AM
[Last Edit: 7/13/2006 6:57:23 AM by Schmeghead]
About US Anodizing....how long is the turnaround time?
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