User Panel
User Panel
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/28/2005 7:18:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
this is great!!!! |
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Posted: 7/28/2005 7:49:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I never had a sig line before, but saw that post yesterday, and I really liked it. Hope new-arguy don't mind. |
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Posted: 7/28/2005 7:52:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Just noticed this last night old triangle handguards including 601's did not have the two holes drilled in the aluminum heat shields. Top handguard is a newer one with the holes, bottom lacks them (only one hole in the picture):
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MA, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2005 12:57:29 AM EDT
[#4]
I was waiting for you to do this. I could see it coming eventually. Great to see you still hard at work heh.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 10:45:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Yeah, guess it was comming. Still working on it, lot more work then I thought. |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2005 1:54:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Of course there is, especially when it comes to anything involving Colt. I've found that out with the research on the series overall.
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Posted: 8/9/2005 5:24:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Don't think it is any worse then any other small arms manufacturer during a war? Take a look at Garands or Carbines, what a mess that was. |
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Posted: 8/10/2005 11:21:55 PM EDT
[#8]
tag
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Posted: 8/11/2005 9:56:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Can we get pictures of the different upper receiver and lower receiver variations?
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Posted: 8/11/2005 10:17:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Tag
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MA, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2005 2:30:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Thatguy96]
[#11]
Colt doesn't need a war to hobble things together from parts on hand, and the Diemaco connection always pissed me off. Now they simplified that one and simply bought Diemaco. Furthermore their in house nomeclature produces a lot of confusion. The Colt Model 639 being the prime example. When the change was made the A2 style lower Colt assembled a number of A2 style guns using A1 style lowers, but stamped A2, also adding unnessecary confusion. Now we're not talking stuff done by the US Government for example in this regard, like the original SPR prototyping, where parts came from whereever they were available. We're talking stuff done at the factory by Colt, to create things that are outright marked one thing and happen to be another. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/11/2005 11:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Couch-Commando]
[#12]
Great info!
 I was wondering if the grenade ring was standard on the origional AR15s with the duck bill flash hider. I've never seen one on an AR15 before. ETA: Also, did the 601 have a 1/14 or 1/12 twist barrel?
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MA, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2005 12:54:56 PM EDT
[#13]
The rifling is still a point of contention and is part of a debate over what the deal between the 601 and 602 is. It would seem extremely plausible that the 601 had a 1:14 twist, while the 602 had a 1:12. |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2005 6:30:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Ekie, would it be possible to use some of your images for a Wikipedia entry?
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Posted: 8/15/2005 11:28:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ekie]
[#15]
Yes, in time, just getting started, lots of work to do.
Sure, makes it the more interesting, like a big puzzle.
Don't know much at all about the grenade do dad. I do have a copy of the first Air Force AR-15 manual coming 50-12, and hopefully it will have details on that item. In regards to twist, particulars on Air Force rifles are discussed here ( was hoping Thatguy96 would get in on that discussion): www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=242620
Send me an E-mail at: [email protected] |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2005 10:48:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Couch-Commando]
[#16]
So, did the 602 have green or black furnature? If I'm reading this right, the only difference between the 601 and 602 is the barrel twist. ETA: Is there a duracoat or other paint that's the same shade as the 601 furnature?
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Posted: 8/17/2005 12:37:28 AM EDT
[#17]
The 602 was the same as the 601 save the lower receiver markings, a 1/12 twist, black furniture, beefed up flash suppresor, light weight firing pin, and the windage engraving was moved from the windage drum to the receiver. Malysh is currently working on matching the green paint, and has not got it down, yet. |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 2:42:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Is there a list someplace that shows who an upper was made by? I have an A1 upper, F/A no B/D, marked with a "P" and then an "M"
Any ideas? |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 6:36:58 PM EDT
[#19]
I think BR II covers that, and so does bighammer? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2005 9:37:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Ekie,
In an earlier post you said you were looking for pics of a C K marked upper. I have a milsurp A1 upper so marked. Apparently a fairly late piece, since it has a "chrome bore" marked barrel. Darker color than the usual Sandstrom, but when I got it it had been painted at some point, and the black paint mey have darkened the original color. The problem is that I have no way to send pics on the internet. If it'll help, I can take, and send you, a 35mm shot. Let me know if you can use it. Next, a question. Did the Air Force ever buy any later M16s with the mag release fence, but still w/the smoothside uppers? The Rock River lower I modified to A1 type is actually a better side edge and color match for my smoothside upper than the A1 upper mentioned above, but I'm darned if I want to mill off the mag release fence and reshape the bottom edge. I've put enough time and energy into this project already  So if there are some A1 lower AF pieces out there I'll just use it on the smoothside upper. Otherwise it's back to the paint sprayer to get a decent color match w/that odd colored A1 upper. 
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Posted: 9/18/2005 10:02:03 AM EDT
[#21]
I did find a CK and a CM upper, and now have good pics, have not posted them yet though. Thanks for check in with me on that.
C MP CHROME BORE barrels were factory original and also used as replacement barrels. A factory original barrel would have the older sight forging, that is C marked with a bell, while a replacement barrel typically would have jibberish for a forge code. Please let me know which your CK upper has. Yes, 604's were delivered with mag fences. For example, the tacky thread with lower receiver pictures you can find a 604 in the 4 million range, those were made in the 70's. Also I had a CM forge code 604 upper with a C MP B marked barrel, that is circa early 70's. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2005 2:40:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Mine is C Bell on the sight base, so I guess it's original. When I got it, we checked the throat wear, and it showed essentially none. Even though the upper had been painted, when I removed it the upper showed 99.9% original finish underneath. I suspect it launched more grenades than bullets, because it came complete except for HGs, and showed a few scratches on the barrel, where the rear mount for the launcher would have been. Instant blue covered them right up to the point that you have to look under a strong light to even see the scratches any more. Thanks for the info on the Air Force pieces. I guess, for the time being, I'll use that lower under the smoothside upper, and hope that Colt 653 ultimately gets the early type lowers available. At that point I'll buy an early type lower to put on the smoothside, and repaint the RR conversion to a closer color match. Til then, the A1 upper assy will live on top of a Century (Conti built) A2 lower, which is a fair color match, if an incorrect profile. BTW: Really admire your willingness and patience over what must have been years, to get the info, pics and items you've come up with for this thread. 
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Posted: 9/18/2005 3:32:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ekie]
[#23]
One some "refurbs" the receiver is painted while assembled, they just slap the port door shut and spray the outside of the upper. This type of paint will come off with a mild effort with acetone. Stripped one last night, and the original finish ain't in too bad a shape. Other refurbs are more carefully done in a thermal setting coating, that don't strip chemically.
Am sure that ASA will get those lowers done, would not make economic sense to abandon the project at this point in the game. Have been cleaning up my parts kits in anticipation of these showing up soon.
There are plenty of guys that know this stuff, but they have not taken the time to put it in a presentable format that others can learn from. There are some guides, but they barely scratch the surface. Was the same story with the AK-74. With the 74 I finally decided that to get it done I would have to get the ball running myself, and Tantal was a huge help. Like the AK-74 guide there are two parts, one is rifle description, and the other is parts. There is a rough draft of the rifles now, and only about half of the parts guide is posted at this point. The farther I get into this, the more stuff I find, for example there are four distinct variations of firing pins. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 8:48:26 PM EDT
[#24]
A BIG THANK YOU to Ekie for this this thread, all your work and knowledge!
This is a Great Tool for the Retro builder! I just learned that my Colt barrel has the chromed chamber only  , that is has the smooth forged FSB and my handguards have the hole so they're not real old.  This barrel is in Pristine condition and well worth the $130 I paid for it. I now know what parts to get to make her like the day in which she was made. I just wish it had the chrome bore too, oh well. Again, thanks for the hard work. Folks like you are what makes this Site Great! Danny |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 9:49:04 AM EDT
[#25]
No problem, my pleasure.
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Posted: 10/12/2005 2:06:24 PM EDT
[#26]
dammit!!! looks like the only one that's still up is the ar-15 clone thread...
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Posted: 10/12/2005 2:38:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ekie]
[#27]
Here you go:
AR-15 model 601 clone: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=238213 M4gery: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=231110 M4A1 clone: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=229465 M16A4gery archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=234528 The following two rifles have been redone, so I took most of these old pictures down: M16A1 clone: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=217482 M16A2 clone: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=218677 Here is the old AR-15 project done up as a 602: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=217481 |
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Posted: 10/17/2005 12:10:45 AM EDT
[#28]
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NV, USA
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Posted: 10/19/2005 3:56:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Great pictures Ekie. Just curious - on those early duck- billed flash suppressors, what was the purpose of those backward folded tabs? |
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Posted: 10/19/2005 4:21:31 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/20/2005 10:32:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Ekie, I just received another barrel with a 3-prong which shows slight machining variations from the first I have. Camera batteries died during the shoot; I'll post tomorrow. Looks like there are several variants among the flute patterns (including one or two in your previous posts).
More later - BT |
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Posted: 10/20/2005 10:42:56 PM EDT
[#32]
tag
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Posted: 10/21/2005 1:01:04 AM EDT
[#33]
I look forward to seeing that. Did you keep that XM16E1 upper? |
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Posted: 10/27/2005 12:18:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OODA_Loop]
[#34]
I've still got the upper (XM16E1) although I may use the 3-prong, and removed the forward assist as it was convenient for building something else (basically, got a large-hole A1 and barrel separately for install upon an A2 lower - SP1 slabside style!
I'll be putting the XM16E1 upper in the EE later on. I'll post pics later on of the two 3-prongs. The one I removed may be used for an SBR XM607 clone if I ever get papered for one, the other came with my chrome bore barrel and is on it now. Edit: Okay, added value. One came with a chrome-bore Colt barrel, infamous private sale, the other is from the aforementioned XM16E1 upper. First, off the XM16E1: Note that the bottom of the flutes stop above the rebate, or whatever to call it.  Next, another unit: Note the fluting going below the rim, or rebate, or whatever-  Both units together. The presumably older unit from the XM16E1 is on the right, shorter flutes. Note the difference in the end - scalloped or dished crown is more pronounced on this unit. It seems like the flutes are slightly thinner, but this could be an illusion - no calipers, sorry!  A work in progress - the barrel is chrome bore, large hole upper, but the buttstock is non-trapdoor. It will probably get a chrome-plated bolt carrier. All Colt at this time. KNS takedown pin.  |
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Posted: 10/27/2005 4:41:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ekie]
[#35]
E-mail sent on the XM16E1 upper.
Will take a look at my flash suppressors and see if can spot those two variants. I have a 602 upper, which is the first production rifle to use this style of flash suppressor. |
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Posted: 10/31/2005 4:20:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Just updated the barrel info.
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Posted: 11/29/2005 2:21:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: gunnut003]
[#37]
this is an evil thread:
now I want: M16 clone M16A1 clone M16A2 clone M16A4 clone M4 clone (bushy '05 SEBR close enough?) M4A1 clone  And thats only for Clones- |
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Posted: 12/10/2005 4:29:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Great info!
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DEU
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Posted: 12/11/2005 5:00:25 PM EDT
[#39]
No, this is a GREAT thread! Now I know what to do with my extra lower reciever. I ordered a reciever from a guy on another forum who is making his own and doing custom engraving and all sorts of shiznaz. The good bit is, he'll do whatever engraving you want BEFORE the type III annodization. That reciever is going to my carbine and my Stag is destined to be a M16 clone.
I don't want to reveal the guys name because I don't think he's ready for full scale operations yet, but I will definately post a report here when I get mine. |
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Posted: 12/13/2005 9:37:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Understood, the more variations I find, the more clones projects I start.
Thanks guys, and do give us an update on that guys lowers. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/22/2005 4:54:03 PM EDT
[#41]
I hope this thread is a suitable place for this. On another thread, I mentioned how my M-16A1 clone project went horribly awry when the large round Forward Assist plunger wouldn't work because it came into contact with my A2 style lower receiver's reinforcemements at the area where the receiver extension screws in. It turns out that the large round plunger had to be modified by flattening one side of the plunger button, therefore the large round Forward Assist plunger is differert for A1 and A2 style lowers. Following is a picture of the two styles side by side for comparison.
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~tspahr/GROSBEAK/STUFF/fas4.jpg Notice also that the A1 style is crimped together while the A2 style is pinned together. There are all kinds of other cosmetic differences as well. For others like me that are really caught up in the cosmetic differences of various M-16 parts, enjoy the pic. My web hosting will not exist after January first, so I would ask that if anyone thinks this picture should exist here longer, please copy the pic to your hosting service and post a link. I'll edit my post accordingly. Thanks, Greg |
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Posted: 12/23/2005 9:31:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Saw that other thread, that is some good stuff, thanks. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2005 9:40:24 AM EDT
[#43]
<Saw that other thread, that is some good stuff, thanks.
Thanks. Greg |
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Posted: 12/24/2005 1:01:27 AM EDT
[#44]
why is this untacked?
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2005 10:41:36 AM EDT
[#45]
+1! I missed this thread the first time around (was on the road) glad it popped up again. Ekie, super job on this one WOW!
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Posted: 12/29/2005 6:49:16 AM EDT
[#46]
good question We need a Library Forum that holds the historical, technical, and noteworthy photo threads. I realize Tacking does this to some extent, but having one forum would keep valuables in one place without imposing on front page real estate. Maybe this post belongs in the Suggestion Box Until then, BTT. 
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Posted: 12/30/2005 11:45:03 PM EDT
[#47]
we sort of do, it's the Content Server but only Mods have access to it. Since the Edit button is essential to grabbing the posts it would have to be a Mod of this forum posting it to the conserv If Ekie has saved all this in word or notepad then it's a simple cut and paste job into the conserv. |
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Posted: 12/31/2005 7:39:30 PM EDT
[#48]
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2006 4:11:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Early A1 port door with threaded bushing (I thought it was a roll pin before reading this thread):
 Later crimped A1 port cover: 
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Posted: 1/9/2006 4:16:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ekie]
[#50]
Great pictures, thanks for sharing them. Funny that I shot port door open pictures just this past Saturday.
Don't think I would call the first port door an "early A1", in that the A1 never used that part. Maybe they should be A, B, and C? Think the FAL book labels the parts types with letters? |
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