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Posted: 7/14/2016 4:01:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I'm seeing this more and more here in the pic threads. Can these be shouldered at all? No Or just okay to use it as a chin rest for a good cheek weld? Yes Flimsy or does it offer any advantages besides having a short "pistol" while waiting for a form 1 to clear? surprisingly rock rolid once installed. As far as advantage/disadvantage that's just opinion so i'll leave that to someone else |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 4:01:47 PM EDT
[#2]
The ATF opines that it would be illegal to intentionally shoulder such a brace.
Of course I'm sure everyone who uses on uses it in the approved way against their arms, or perhaps as a cheek-rest, as that's permitted. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 4:05:35 PM EDT
[#3]
This is a stabilizing brace for one arm shooting. It's not a stock. It's half the price of the SIG brace. That's why you see it so much. It allows for a cheek weld if desired. It is not designed to be shouldered. The ATF opinion is that if shouldered it becomes a different classification that requires a form1.
Personally, I prefer a AR pistol over a SBR. I travel across state lines and a pistol is legal and easily transported through the states I need. I can have the pistol full loaded in the vehicle with me. It can be concealed. The legality of shouldering is debatable. You will hear both sides. This has been a topic with a long searchable history here. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 6:08:49 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't believe anyone has or will ever be prosecuted for shooting a pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder. As far as I'm concerned there is no law against it. Do you feel the government is competent enough to figure all this out?
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Posted: 7/15/2016 4:29:14 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't believe anyone has or will ever be prosecuted for shooting a pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder. As far as I'm concerned there is no law against it. Do you feel the government is competent enough to figure all this out? Generally talking about illegal activity on this site violates the rules. It is illegal to shoulder it, it would make a NFA SBR according to BATFE opinion. OP the reason you see so many is they can be had for 1/3 of the cost of a sig brace. They are more streamlined, lighter and IMO better looking too. I have three of them and one sig brace. |
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Posted: 7/15/2016 4:37:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for replies folks. I think I am going to stay with doing pinned and welded 14.5's and just wait it out.
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Posted: 7/15/2016 8:49:32 AM EDT
[#7]
I was under the impression that building with the intention of using it as a stock to shoulder makes it a SBR but building without that intention and an accidental shoulder would not be illegal? I know its a fine line but that was my understanding of their ruling. Maybe I misread it?
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Posted: 7/15/2016 10:06:06 AM EDT
[#8]
It's an arm brace that the ATF approved.
Use it as such. Dave N |
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Posted: 7/15/2016 1:45:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was under the impression that building with the intention of using it as a stock to shoulder makes it a SBR but building without that intention and an accidental shoulder would not be illegal? I know its a fine line but that was my understanding of their ruling. Maybe I misread it? "Accidentally" shouldering a brace. Yeah right, that happens a lot. - OS |
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Posted: 7/15/2016 10:54:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Accidentally" shouldering a brace. Yeah right, that happens a lot. - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was under the impression that building with the intention of using it as a stock to shoulder makes it a SBR but building without that intention and an accidental shoulder would not be illegal? I know its a fine line but that was my understanding of their ruling. Maybe I misread it? "Accidentally" shouldering a brace. Yeah right, that happens a lot. - OS Do not go to the ATF and shoot the building with a shouldered brace! The brace becoming a stock when it touches a shoulder is a concept that may or may not actually exist to me. There is a ruling that vaguely implies it does but is indirect and limited. Until such a concept is enforced I consider it fairly pointless for anything other than online debate and to keep SBR sales going. 10 years from now people will still be wondering about what the heck is going on with the ruling and looking over their shoulder. I have several arm braces now along with many rifles so accidentally shouldering a brace is actually very easy to forget about and do. Anyone who did not build a gun with a brace or know all about them would shoulder it thinking it was a stock anyway. How would a normal Joe know any better? |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 10:01:45 AM EDT
[#11]
It's my understanding that the ATF issues "opinions" by the Chief Technology officer. I don't see where this guy is a lawyer or is doing anything other than giving his opinion. Opinions are like, well, everyone has one.
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Posted: 7/16/2016 10:44:28 AM EDT
[#12]
If it accidently touches your shoulder you should be ok, unless you have your own personal ATand an F agent that accompanies you, or some of the busy bodies that posts on this forum.
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Posted: 7/16/2016 11:20:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Somebody should write them a letter asking for clarification
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Posted: 7/16/2016 12:19:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somebody should write them a letter asking for clarification Don't ja do it. 
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Posted: 7/16/2016 12:20:25 PM EDT
[#15]
I like mine so much I ordered two more. To me it is the perfect solution to an imperfect problem!
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Posted: 7/16/2016 4:46:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it accidently touches your shoulder you should be ok, unless you have your own personal ATand an F agent that accompanies you, or some of the busy bodies that posts on this forum.
Yes....the same busy bodies that wrote letter after letter asking the atf for permission to shoulder their arm brace. Can't leave well enough alone! |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 1:07:26 AM EDT
[#17]
I cheeked my 10.5" pistol and that puppy shot accurate with little recoil. No need to shoulder it, and it's illegal ass hell to do it!
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Posted: 7/19/2016 2:12:25 AM EDT
[#18]
I really dig mine. It's a sleeker and lighter option to the fat Sig brace. As far as shouldering... Well, it is an ATF OPINION that firing it from the shoulder makes it an NFA item. There's no written law that states this, just an opinion and no one has or probably ever will be tossed in a cell for doing so... That said, it is a government agency that thinks they know more about these things than anyone else... I have mine as a cheek rest and a space filler to make the pistol not look odd with a bare buffer tube. I like it a lot though and the dimpled receiver extension and set screw makes it a rock solid set up. Just if you're going to shoulder it and ignore all of our opinions not to bc of ATF's opinion, then just don't say anything in my opinion... Sure is a lot of opinions going on... Vern out.
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Posted: 7/19/2016 2:46:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Generally talking about illegal activity on this site violates the rules. It is illegal to shoulder it, it would make a NFA SBR according to BATFE opinion. OP the reason you see so many is they can be had for 1/3 of the cost of a sig brace. They are more streamlined, lighter and IMO better looking too. I have three of them and one sig brace. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't believe anyone has or will ever be prosecuted for shooting a pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder. As far as I'm concerned there is no law against it. Do you feel the government is competent enough to figure all this out? Generally talking about illegal activity on this site violates the rules. It is illegal to shoulder it, it would make a NFA SBR according to BATFE opinion. OP the reason you see so many is they can be had for 1/3 of the cost of a sig brace. They are more streamlined, lighter and IMO better looking too. I have three of them and one sig brace. For something to be illegal there has to be a law against it. Shouldering an arm brace is not illegal if you build your pistol with the intention of never sholdering it. The BATFE is in a corner and there is nothing they can do. |
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Posted: 7/21/2016 2:35:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Back to the OP's point. I have one. It is rock solid. It has a very nice cheek weld IMO. Advantages? I like it
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Posted: 7/21/2016 8:15:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For something to be illegal there has to be a law against it. Shouldering an arm brace is not illegal if you build your pistol with the intention of never sholdering it. The BATFE is in a corner and there is nothing they can do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't believe anyone has or will ever be prosecuted for shooting a pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder. As far as I'm concerned there is no law against it. Do you feel the government is competent enough to figure all this out? Generally talking about illegal activity on this site violates the rules. It is illegal to shoulder it, it would make a NFA SBR according to BATFE opinion. OP the reason you see so many is they can be had for 1/3 of the cost of a sig brace. They are more streamlined, lighter and IMO better looking too. I have three of them and one sig brace. For something to be illegal there has to be a law against it. Shouldering an arm brace is not illegal if you build your pistol with the intention of never sholdering it. The BATFE is in a corner and there is nothing they can do. Perhaps more to the point, the agency has never stated it intends to enforce the ruling. - OS |
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Posted: 7/21/2016 9:09:05 PM EDT
[#22]
A question for you guys that have one. Do the braces add any length to the buffer tube?
Currently I use a sling to stabilize my cheek weld and I wouldn't want much extra extension length to cause the blade to touch my shoulder 
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Posted: 7/21/2016 10:29:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A question for you guys that have one. Do the braces add any length to the buffer tube? Currently I use a sling to stabilize my cheek weld and I wouldn't want much extra extension length to cause the blade to touch my shoulder
The SB15 and SBX do not unless you want it to. If course the KAK Super Tube is longer to begin with, and they have spacers for offsetting if desired. The Shockwave can extend back from the end of the tube if you want it to. The Phase 5 Hex tube offsets a brace backwards by design, but it comes out to same length as a KAK tube with brace flush against back of it. - OS |
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Posted: 7/21/2016 10:36:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The SB15 and SBX do not unless you want it to. If course the KAK Super Tube is longer to begin with, and they have spacers for offsetting if desired. The Shockwave can extend back from the end of the tube if you want it to. The Phase 5 Hex tube offsets a brace backwards by design, but it comes out to same length as a KAK tube with brace flush against back of it. - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A question for you guys that have one. Do the braces add any length to the buffer tube? Currently I use a sling to stabilize my cheek weld and I wouldn't want much extra extension length to cause the blade to touch my shoulder
The SB15 and SBX do not unless you want it to. If course the KAK Super Tube is longer to begin with, and they have spacers for offsetting if desired. The Shockwave can extend back from the end of the tube if you want it to. The Phase 5 Hex tube offsets a brace backwards by design, but it comes out to same length as a KAK tube with brace flush against back of it. - OS thanks |
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