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Posted: 5/16/2016 11:37:26 AM EDT
[#1]
As in, it's still an 80% lower, or it's an 80% lower that you completed and already built in to a rifle?
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Posted: 5/16/2016 11:40:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As in, it's still an 80% lower, or it's an 80% lower that you completed and already built in to a rifle? I have both. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 11:54:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol.
I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 12:03:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol. I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. I agree, it's an unenforceable law but that's never stopped law makers in the past. I had heard that ATF required a specific request document be submitted asking permission to build/buy an AR15 pistol and that the wait period was several months/years. I'm not looking to break the law either, that's why I'm asking. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 12:08:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree, it's an unenforceable law but that's never stopped law makers in the past. I had heard that ATF required a specific request document be submitted asking permission to build/buy an AR15 pistol and that the wait period was several months/years. I'm not looking to break the law either, that's why I'm asking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol. I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. I agree, it's an unenforceable law but that's never stopped law makers in the past. I had heard that ATF required a specific request document be submitted asking permission to build/buy an AR15 pistol and that the wait period was several months/years. I'm not looking to break the law either, that's why I'm asking. No sir. You may build as many AR pistols as you can afford. I don't know what your state laws are that define a pistol, so be aware of those. If you mean Short Barreled Rifles, yes. You must submit an ATF Form 1, pay the $200 tax, and wait for approval before building your SBR. There is a subforum here just for SBRs - they have lots of smart people who can answer questions about it. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 12:48:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No sir. You may build as many AR pistols as you can afford. I don't know what your state laws are that define a pistol, so be aware of those. If you mean Short Barreled Rifles, yes. You must submit an ATF Form 1, pay the $200 tax, and wait for approval before building your SBR. There is a subforum here just for SBRs - they have lots of smart people who can answer questions about it. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol. I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. I agree, it's an unenforceable law but that's never stopped law makers in the past. I had heard that ATF required a specific request document be submitted asking permission to build/buy an AR15 pistol and that the wait period was several months/years. I'm not looking to break the law either, that's why I'm asking. No sir. You may build as many AR pistols as you can afford. I don't know what your state laws are that define a pistol, so be aware of those. If you mean Short Barreled Rifles, yes. You must submit an ATF Form 1, pay the $200 tax, and wait for approval before building your SBR. There is a subforum here just for SBRs - they have lots of smart people who can answer questions about it. . I'm glad I asked about this. Do you know how the two are defined to differentiate? I would have thought that a pistol would be more heavily regulated than a SBR. Showing my ignorance, I guess. BTW, I could not find a forum for AR15 SBR. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 1:05:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad I asked about this. Do you know how the two are defined to differentiate? I would have thought that a pistol would be more heavily regulated than a SBR. Showing my ignorance, I guess. BTW, I could not find a forum for AR15 SBR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol. I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. I agree, it's an unenforceable law but that's never stopped law makers in the past. I had heard that ATF required a specific request document be submitted asking permission to build/buy an AR15 pistol and that the wait period was several months/years. I'm not looking to break the law either, that's why I'm asking. No sir. You may build as many AR pistols as you can afford. I don't know what your state laws are that define a pistol, so be aware of those. If you mean Short Barreled Rifles, yes. You must submit an ATF Form 1, pay the $200 tax, and wait for approval before building your SBR. There is a subforum here just for SBRs - they have lots of smart people who can answer questions about it. . I'm glad I asked about this. Do you know how the two are defined to differentiate? I would have thought that a pistol would be more heavily regulated than a SBR. Showing my ignorance, I guess. BTW, I could not find a forum for AR15 SBR. An SBR has a stock and is designed to be shouldered a pistol is not and does not have a stock. If you shoulder a pistol you have magically created an illegal SBR according to the ATF. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 1:18:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An SBR has a stock and is designed to be shouldered a pistol is not and does not have a stock. If you shoulder a pistol you have magically created an illegal SBR according to the ATF. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol. I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. I agree, it's an unenforceable law but that's never stopped law makers in the past. I had heard that ATF required a specific request document be submitted asking permission to build/buy an AR15 pistol and that the wait period was several months/years. I'm not looking to break the law either, that's why I'm asking. No sir. You may build as many AR pistols as you can afford. I don't know what your state laws are that define a pistol, so be aware of those. If you mean Short Barreled Rifles, yes. You must submit an ATF Form 1, pay the $200 tax, and wait for approval before building your SBR. There is a subforum here just for SBRs - they have lots of smart people who can answer questions about it. . I'm glad I asked about this. Do you know how the two are defined to differentiate? I would have thought that a pistol would be more heavily regulated than a SBR. Showing my ignorance, I guess. BTW, I could not find a forum for AR15 SBR. An SBR has a stock and is designed to be shouldered a pistol is not and does not have a stock. If you shoulder a pistol you have magically created an illegal SBR according to the ATF. I've been cut off. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 2:02:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol.
I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. Well.... 80% > lower > pistol > rifle > pistol 80% > lower > rifle > pistol > prison Makes no sense, but that's FDR for ya'. |
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Posted: 5/16/2016 8:17:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Although I have made several 80%ers, I still elected to buy a serialized lower (Detroit Gun Works) to smooth out the receiver to pistol to SBR process.
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Posted: 5/17/2016 9:18:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well.... 80% > lower > pistol > rifle > pistol>prison (before the Thompson center arms decision) 80% > lower > rifle > pistol > prison Makes no sense, but that's FDR for ya'. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol.
I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. Well.... 80% > lower > pistol > rifle > pistol>prison (before the Thompson center arms decision) 80% > lower > rifle > pistol > prison Makes no sense, but that's FDR for ya'. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 1:56:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Once you build it into a rifle, the ATF always views it as a rifle. A virgin lower sold as "other" or something you make yourself will have no such provenance and can be built into a pistol.
I would never condone violation of laws or ATF regulations... but it would be difficult to tell if an unserialized completed 80% lower had ever been built into a rifle first. Well.... 80% > lower > pistol > rifle > pistol>prison (before the Thompson center arms decision) 80% > lower > rifle > pistol > prison Makes no sense, but that's FDR for ya'. Correct. The Supremes ruled in our favor. |
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Posted: 6/26/2016 10:20:22 AM EDT
[#13]
I have an 80% Anderson lower I have just finished. So is it legal to make it into a pistol? Is there any issues with ordering the pistol upper this time? I will order the pistol buffer tube here soon. Since it is not a SBR will I have to fill out any paperwork or register it? Is there any paperwork you have to fill out it being a pistol? Sorry for all the questions just never done this and am not familiar with the particulars on it.
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Posted: 6/26/2016 11:04:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have an 80% Anderson lower I have just finished. So is it legal to make it into a pistol? Yes. Is there any issues with ordering the pistol upper this time? If you have the stripped lower mentioned above, then no issue. I will order the pistol buffer tube here soon. Since it is not a SBR will I have to fill out any paperwork or register it? No paperwork, just build it, same as if you were building a rifle. Is there any paperwork you have to fill out it being a pistol? No. Sorry for all the questions just never done this and am not familiar with the particulars on it. |
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Posted: 6/26/2016 2:55:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks very much for the quick reply.
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Posted: 6/26/2016 5:25:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
What are the legalities of building an AR15 pistol from an 80% lower I already own? For this question: everything is legal! |
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Posted: 6/29/2016 10:22:48 PM EDT
[#17]
I have an 80% lower that I want to build into a rifle, but I was planning at some time to get another 80% to build as pistol too. I figure if I invest in the jig, then why not do both.
Anyway, I see a 4th of July deal at PSA for a pistol upper. I already own a complete AR that I built from a serialized stripped lower. Is there a constructive possession concern if go ahead and buy the upper for use with the 80% lower or is that too risky? Also, am I always at risk for a constructive possession judgement call if I buy pistol upper parts and my only serialized lower is on my rifle? I would like to have the pistol, but not badly enough to run afoul of this vague law. |
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Posted: 7/2/2016 2:01:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have an 80% lower that I want to build into a rifle, but I was planning at some time to get another 80% to build as pistol too. I figure if I invest in the jig, then why not do both.
Anyway, I see a 4th of July deal at PSA for a pistol upper. I already own a complete AR that I built from a serialized stripped lower. Is there a constructive possession concern if go ahead and buy the upper for use with the 80% lower or is that too risky? Also, am I always at risk for a constructive possession judgement call if I buy pistol upper parts and my only serialized lower is on my rifle? I would like to have the pistol, but not badly enough to run afoul of this vague law. If your LGS has a stripped lower for $75, it would be cheap insurance for your pistol parts. Will transfer to you as "other". Your 80% might be enough insurance, but @ what point is a jury convinced that you had an intention other than assembling an illegal SBR? I have this virgin serialized lower that I was going to build my pistol out of... I have this 80% lower that I was going to build my pistol out of... I have this solid block of aluminum I was going to build my pistol out of... I have this collection of aluminum beer cans I was going to cast my pistol out of... I have this collection of Legos I was going to build my lower out of... 
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Posted: 7/5/2016 7:04:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have an 80% lower that I want to build into a rifle, Anyway, I see a 4th of July deal at PSA for a pistol upper. I already own a complete AR that I built from a serialized stripped lower. . If it is a rifle first and pistol second, it is a no-no, according to what I have been advised. |
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Posted: 7/5/2016 7:55:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it is a rifle first and pistol second, it is a no-no, according to what I have been advised. Correct, according to the lords @ BATFE. |
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Posted: 7/6/2016 7:55:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct, according to the lords @ BATFE. definitions found in the NFA and upheld by the SCOTUS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it is a rifle first and pistol second, it is a no-no, according to what I have been advised. Correct, according to the lords @ BATFE. definitions found in the NFA and upheld by the SCOTUS. |
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Posted: 7/6/2016 7:56:52 PM EDT
[#22]
oops
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