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Posted: 8/30/2015 6:02:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Well out of Pistol, Rifle or SBR. SBR is out unless you do all the SBR hoops. Between being a Pistol or Rifle that will depend on how much brains your FFL has. If it gets transferred as "Other", then it can be made into a pistol or rifle. It just comes down to if your FFL makes the right choice when he\she fill out the form. Every stripped (or built) lower that I have gets built into an AR pistol first.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 6:09:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well out of Pistol, Rifle or SBR. SBR is out unless you do all the SBR hoops. Between being a Pistol or Rifle that will depend on how much brains your FFL has. If it gets transferred as "Other", then it can be made into a pistol or rifle. It just comes down to if your FFL makes the right choice when he\she fill out the form. Every stripped (or built) lower that I have gets built into an AR pistol first. He'll book it as a receiver I would imagine, I will check with him. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 6:11:00 PM EDT
[#3]
It's a receiver. It is not a rifle nor is it a pistol.
If you pull the stock off before pinning an upper on, you can use a short upper. Doesn't even need a pistol buffer tube. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 6:17:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Since it's a complete lower with a buttstock, there's a chance it might be marked as a rifle when sold. Rifles can not be made into a Pistol. However a Pistol can be made into a Rifle. A virgin stripped receiver can be made into a pistol or rifle. I would just buy a stripped receiver when building a Pistol.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 6:58:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since it's a complete lower with a buttstock, there's a chance it might be marked as a rifle when sold. Rifles can not be made into a Pistol. However a Pistol can be made into a Rifle. A virgin stripped receiver can be made into a pistol or rifle. I would just buy a stripped receiver when building a Pistol. How a lower with a stock is marked on the 4473 does not change its' legal classification; it is still an "other" until built into either a long gun or pistol. No different than if a Glock 19 was marked incorrectly as a rifle; legally it would still be a pistol. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:00:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since it's a complete lower with a buttstock, there's a chance it might be marked as a rifle when sold. Rifles can not be made into a Pistol. However a Pistol can be made into a Rifle. A virgin stripped receiver can be made into a pistol or rifle. I would just buy a stripped receiver when building a Pistol. That's not how it works. If your FFL fucks up, that has no bearing on what you can do. I'd love to see what he puts for caliber, though |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:00:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He'll book it as a receiver I would imagine, I will check with him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well out of Pistol, Rifle or SBR. SBR is out unless you do all the SBR hoops. Between being a Pistol or Rifle that will depend on how much brains your FFL has. If it gets transferred as "Other", then it can be made into a pistol or rifle. It just comes down to if your FFL makes the right choice when he\she fill out the form. Every stripped (or built) lower that I have gets built into an AR pistol first. He'll book it as a receiver I would imagine, I will check with him. He has no choice; it is an "other" until built into either a long gun or a pistol. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:02:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not how it works. If your FFL fucks up, that has no bearing on what you can do. I'd love to see what he puts for caliber, though Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since it's a complete lower with a buttstock, there's a chance it might be marked as a rifle when sold. Rifles can not be made into a Pistol. However a Pistol can be made into a Rifle. A virgin stripped receiver can be made into a pistol or rifle. I would just buy a stripped receiver when building a Pistol. That's not how it works. If your FFL fucks up, that has no bearing on what you can do. I'd love to see what he puts for caliber, though Yeah receivers are marked multi. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:18:06 PM EDT
[#9]
So to the original question: if a "virgin" complete lower is purchased by an individual and then the buttstock is removed and replaced with a pistol buffer, did said individual just break the law or not?
ETA: clarifying words |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:19:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So to the original question: if a "virgin" complete lower is purchased by an individual and then the buttstock is removed and replaced with a pistol buffer, did said individual just break the law or not? ETA: clarifying words No. You don't even need to change the buffer tube. You can walk out, toss the stock, and throw a short upper on and you've got a legal AR pistol. It has not been built into a complete rifle, therefore you are good to build a pistol with it. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:20:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. You don't even need to change the buffer tube. You can walk out, toss the stock, and throw a short upper on and you've got an AR pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So to the original question: if a "virgin" complete lower is purchased by an individual and then the buttstock is removed and replaced with a pistol buffer, did said individual just break the law or not? ETA: clarifying words No. You don't even need to change the buffer tube. You can walk out, toss the stock, and throw a short upper on and you've got an AR pistol. In essence that is the question, and what I expected the answer to be. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 8:41:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah receivers are marked multi. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since it's a complete lower with a buttstock, there's a chance it might be marked as a rifle when sold. Rifles can not be made into a Pistol. However a Pistol can be made into a Rifle. A virgin stripped receiver can be made into a pistol or rifle. I would just buy a stripped receiver when building a Pistol. That's not how it works. If your FFL fucks up, that has no bearing on what you can do. I'd love to see what he puts for caliber, though Yeah receivers are marked multi. The "multi" marking has no significance for long gun/handgun/other firearm. It refers to caliber, but really has no legal significance even in relation to that. - OS |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 8:55:39 PM EDT
[#13]
It goes something like, first a pistol it can be a pistol again, first a rifle always a rifle.
Once stamped as an SBR - It's my impression it can't go back, even if it was a pistol first. To be frank, very few bother to switch back and forth. Cheap lowers make it easy to just build another. It's mostly an internet discussion. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 9:59:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It goes something like, first a pistol it can be a pistol again, first a rifle always a rifle. Once stamped as an SBR - It's my impression it can't go back, even if it was a pistol first. ... Yeah, the Thompson Decision concerns GCA firearms only. Whole point that was an NFA firearm is not made by doing so. NFA rules are a whole 'nother realm. Basically, ATF says that if any parts are retained that keep the firearm under NFA purview, then it stays an NFA firearm, so obviously having a short barrel on the thing would mean it can't be a GCA pistol once becoming SBR. - OS |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 1:44:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, the Thompson Decision concerns GCA firearms only. Whole point that was an NFA firearm is not made by doing so. NFA rules are a whole 'nother realm. Basically, ATF says that if any parts are retained that keep the firearm under NFA purview, then it stays an NFA firearm, so obviously having a short barrel on the thing would mean it can't be a GCA pistol once becoming SBR. - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It goes something like, first a pistol it can be a pistol again, first a rifle always a rifle. Once stamped as an SBR - It's my impression it can't go back, even if it was a pistol first. ... Yeah, the Thompson Decision concerns GCA firearms only. Whole point that was an NFA firearm is not made by doing so. NFA rules are a whole 'nother realm. Basically, ATF says that if any parts are retained that keep the firearm under NFA purview, then it stays an NFA firearm, so obviously having a short barrel on the thing would mean it can't be a GCA pistol once becoming SBR. - OS Not exactly... As long as it's configured as a Title II firearm (NFA), it remains under the NFA purview. As soon as it's configured as a Title I firearm, you can treat it as any other Title I firearm. So quick example, registered AR15 SBR lower with stock and 11.5" barreled upper receiver = Title II firearm; registered AR15 SBR lower with stock and 16"+ barreled upper receiver = no different than any other AR15 you can pick up at the local Wal-Mart. And you can return a previously Title II firearm back to Title I configuration permanently, the ATF just asks that you notify them in writing when doing so. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 2:02:38 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not exactly... As long as it's configured as a Title II firearm (NFA), it remains under the NFA purview. As soon as it's configured as a Title I firearm, you can treat it as any other Title I firearm. So quick example, registered AR15 SBR lower with stock and 11.5" barreled upper receiver = Title II firearm; registered AR15 SBR lower with stock and 16"+ barreled upper receiver = no different than any other AR15 you can pick up at the local Wal-Mart. And you can return a previously Title II firearm back to Title I configuration permanently, the ATF just asks that you notify them in writing when doing so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It goes something like, first a pistol it can be a pistol again, first a rifle always a rifle. Once stamped as an SBR - It's my impression it can't go back, even if it was a pistol first. ... Yeah, the Thompson Decision concerns GCA firearms only. Whole point that was an NFA firearm is not made by doing so. NFA rules are a whole 'nother realm. Basically, ATF says that if any parts are retained that keep the firearm under NFA purview, then it stays an NFA firearm, so obviously having a short barrel on the thing would mean it can't be a GCA pistol once becoming SBR. - OS Not exactly... As long as it's configured as a Title II firearm (NFA), it remains under the NFA purview. As soon as it's configured as a Title I firearm, you can treat it as any other Title I firearm. So quick example, registered AR15 SBR lower with stock and 11.5" barreled upper receiver = Title II firearm; registered AR15 SBR lower with stock and 16"+ barreled upper receiver = no different than any other AR15 you can pick up at the local Wal-Mart. And you can return a previously Title II firearm back to Title I configuration permanently, the ATF just asks that you notify them in writing when doing so. Sigh, but an SBR can never be a Title 1 firearm with a short barrel on it, because ATF says that means it retains NFA purview. You wouldn't have a Title 1 pistol, only a Title II SBR without a stock. Which is okay, but it ain't a Title 1 firearm. That's what their FAQs say. Write the letter and ask. 
- OS |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 12:15:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Going NFA means all previous classifications are started over - If it's an SBR, the Rifle it is and forever will be. There's the whole issue with AR's in a nutshell. We love the modularity, but then we have to live with laws written 80 years ago that were never fashioned to consider it.
Directly after the "Open Letter" a CA resident was arrested for being in possession of what looked like an AR pistol with brace. But - under CA law it was first "registered" as a rifle and that was why it crossed the line of State law. only Point being, what we debate here only holds at the Federal level. State law will be what is interpreted first as a local LEO will most likely be the one involved and it's up to his discretion. We brag on being able to have it cocked and locked in the front seat in a tennis raquet bag, but I'm not that guy. I will treat it like a hunting rifle in a case in back just because. If and when I can Open Carry it then I expect I will need it a lot more than I want. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 1:29:37 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 10/7/2015 2:48:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryPistol. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 9:19:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Pistol. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 12:58:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Which is weird, as they look almost exactly like my AR pistol.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 11:43:25 AM EDT
[#22]
Are you going to assemble it in front of an ATF agent or your local LEO?
Are you under surveillance? Is your house bugged? If not then who cares? Do what ever you want in the privacy of your home, just don't go out waving it around and showing everyone........ |
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