OK, so just to make sure I understand this correctly....

Any lower (with or without a rifle stock) can be made to a pistol if it's NEVER HAD an upper with a barrel of 16 inches or longer upon it, correct?  Dealer assures me it was an "other" on the 4473, but told me that with the rifle stock, it was a rifle (which seems to contradict what I read here).

If so, do I need to change the buffer tube, or is the standard carbine one OK (after, of course, removing the stock)?  I assume if I leave the standard carbine, then the SB-15 does not fit?



Random other question: anyone have a good source for 10 inch(ish) 6.8 uppers?  I'd like a shorter barrel than 11.5-12 inches that I read is a good minimum for 5.56, and I already have a fair amount of 6.8 for hunting purposes (not interested in the 300 at this time)

Thanks.

Correct, but beyond correct actually. Lower must not have first been made into rifle, meaning initially configured as rifle. Once made as legal pistol, can be rifle or pistol from then on.

And no, a stock only on a lower does not make it a rifle, typical dumb FFL stuff there. If he believed it to be a rifle, why didn't he mark "long gun" on 4473 anyway? Duh, whatever.

- OS

Not quite, OP.  Any lower can be made into a pistol if it's never been assembled as a rifle.  My Stag started out as a 16" bbl pistol.  Doesn't matter the length of the upper you put on it.  If a virgin lower comes w/ a stock, just make sure to remove the stock before you ever put an upper on the lower - that way it's never been assembled as a complete rifle.  Any buffer tube will do - pistol, rifle, carbine.  My Stag had a 16" bbl & a rifle receiver extension on it, making a longer pistol than my issue M4.

Some manufacturers will mail you a certificate of virginity for your lower, if you request it.

A lot of the concern about making it a pistol lower first is highly academic. It's like getting a ticket for not wearing a seat belt - after a three county chase at high speeds with liquor and kilos of meth being tossed from the car.

What were you doing to even get their notice? They simply do not have the manpower to surf the net and collect up data to prove you have a "rifle" lower that you then illegally converted into a "pistol" lower.

It also goes to barrel length - the BATF doesn't define a pistol by barrel length, they determine it by whether it can take a stock.

Here's a theoretical case: Building a pistol lower for use in MO Alternate weapons season, the pistol buffer tube is installed first, then lower completed, but season arrives with an upper lacking - unless I put the 16" 6.8 upper from my stocked rifle on it.

Legally a pistol? Those kind of hair splitting discussions come up on the boards all the time, and lacking a written letter from the BATF to determine your specific situation, it's mostly speculation on our part. Plus - the BATF can, has, and will in the future change it's position.

Which means about nothing for most, they try to toe the line, and the BATF only follows up after the arrest. They are much more concerned about the larger crimes and good convictions than hassling someone over which way a receiver was first used. It could go bad for them in a court of law, too.

My take? Install the pistol buffer tube first on a lower, as the determination of constructive intent is that you were trying to circumvent the SBR tax if you possess a stock that could fit a normal rifle buffer. Pistol buffer = pistol lower in my thinking. IIt goes directly to the intended purpose as barrel length isn't a limiting factor in determination.

Tirod - any extension tube is fine. A stock that fits simply has to have another home other than to make an SBR.

This stuff is pretty cut and dry. It's the collective opinions that fuck it up.

Just nobody go and build a pistol off a lower receiver that came as a rifle from a factory.  That's a 3 minute phone call, game, set, and match for BATFE.  With virgin lowers running as low as $39, just buy a new lower for your pistol build.

16" upper on a pistol lower is legal.

As long as you possess a 16"+, or 14.5" pinned & welded upper, then having a stock that happens to fit your pistol's receiver extension is fine.  No need to use a "pistol" buffer tube - BATFE has published letters on this.

Well these were sold as complete lowers, not as rifles, so I guess I'm in the clear.

And, yes, I do have a few spare uppers (a 6.8 and .22LR).

Guess I'll just buy a pistol buffer tube and swap with the carbine one, just to be safe.  No, no 'rifle' upper has been put on it yet.  Guess I can call the company direct and ask though.

My brother came across his 10 year old certificate of Virginity from Stag tonight.  No need for a pistol tube.  I used a rifle stock length receiver extension on my pistol.  Gives a nice cheek weld thrown over your shoulder.

That's a thought, but my Sig Brace doesn't fit the carbine buffer.  Or maybe it stretches a bit and I just don't know it?  Literally opened the box 2 hours ago and haven't been back to it since.

Guys, there's no way you're getting SIG brace over a carbine tube, simple as that.

- OS

Yeah I figured that out.  Eventually.  

As far as buffer tubes go, the pistol tubes just look nicer.
I've got mine wrapped with camo 550 cord so I don't have to "cheek" cold aluminum.