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Posted: 9/15/2014 2:38:02 AM EDT
I just finished my first AR pistol build and really wanted it to be light. I ordered both the phase 5 tube and the KAK tube with the SB15 brace. I really like the form factor of the sig brace for the pistol, but it seems to add a ton of weight to the pistol compared to just using the foam covered phase 5 tube. Has anyone tried to lighten up the SB15? I was think of trying to use a hole saw to drill through the cross member support structure that is under the buffer tube and possibly trimming the front "button" portion that is made to mate with the rear of the lower but isn't really necessary when using the KAK. I also thought about putting some holes in the flaps if there was a way to make them look decent and do them clean.
With the brace on and no optic or light, the pistol is sitting right at 6.5 lbs with Seekins IRMT-R upper and V2 Mod Rail with 6.8 10.5" Noveske Barrel. I was hoping to be under 6 lbs. I will post up pics tomorrow when I get a chance as this was my first shot at doing Cerakote myself. |
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[#1]
someone else will probably hop on, but the ATF approved the sig brace as is..meaning if you modify it..it leaves you open to have a peppered angus.
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[#2]
Actually I was searching around for something like this topic. I really want to know if anyone has taken off the front nub with a razor or something. It's a bit useless frankly. It just kind of hands there and it might lighten it an oz. (hey every bit counts haha). It shouldn't be a big deal considering it doesn't "change" the sig brace. Not modifying and cutting off the flaps for the arm part would be different as I've seen in other post, but maybe putting "holes" or rectangle cuts down the flaps might lighten it a bit more without changing the actual design. Below is a picture of proposed cuts. I'll think about this and possibly try it out later.
**The red is where it would be cut. I'm sure using a razor blade that is extremely sharp would be able to cut nicely. <a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/user/southkhaki19/media/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/southkhaki19/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg"/></a> |
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[#3]
Have you seen the original design of what was actually approved?
Do whatever you want to the Damn brace as long as it can still be used as a brace I wouldn't bat an eyelash |
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[#4]
I checked the weight of the SB-15 myself and weighs in at 11.89 ounces which is slightly less than a Magpul STR stock (12.3 oz.) and slightly more than a Magpul CTR (8.8 oz.) To that end it's obvious it will weigh more that the foam on the pistol tube. Knowing the structure of the brace I don't think it will be possible to remove 8 oz. of material from it without changing significantly.
Considering the barrel you used weighs 24 oz. I would think the weight of the brace helps to balance the pistol out and a balanced weapon will feel lighter than one that's front heavy.
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[#5]
I may open myself up to controversy but that is alright. I went ahead and did a bit of modding to the brace. I did NOT take away from the functionality. I primarily just used a razor and took off a bit of material in choice areas. The function and primary look is the same minus a little bit of material. There are a few other areas that material could be removed but I just didn't want to go to far and have a hack & slash mod. A razor glides through most of the material quite easily and looks pretty OEM the way I have it. The black color is dyed throughout so material removal by a razor doesn't give that horrid powder white look. I will say that the material I removed may add up to a couple ounces. I'm sure you could probably remove a total of 3-5oz from it in all but it would take a lot of precision and time and thought to prevent you from completely changing the original design/purpose. I think in a game where weight counts and a lightweight build is what you are going for, this may help a little. If you are using optics and QD mounts and THEN saying you want a lightweight build, then the ounces you remove from the SB15 brace is useless and you should just /quit LOL. Hope this helps.
<a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/user/southkhaki19/media/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/SB15Mod.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/southkhaki19/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/SB15Mod.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo SB15Mod.jpg"/></a> <a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/user/southkhaki19/media/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/ARWeightDistribution.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/southkhaki19/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/ARWeightDistribution.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo ARWeightDistribution.jpg"/></a> |
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[#7]
Actually it appears that brace is out already!
https://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/sbx-pistol-stabilizing-brace-686.aspx |
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[#8]
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[#9]
Quoted:
someone else will probably hop on, but the ATF approved the sig brace as is..meaning if you modify it..it leaves you open to have a peppered angus. View Quote There is a self-appointed, ATF foot soldier in every thread. Why would this one be any different? You can modify it as long as you don't change the design intent. Doing anything to it that would prevent it from being used as an arm brace might get you in trouble. I am just talking about removing material. I'm not sure why Sig added so much bulk to it. |
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[#10]
Quoted:
Actually I was searching around for something like this topic. I really want to know if anyone has taken off the front nub with a razor or something. It's a bit useless frankly. It just kind of hands there and it might lighten it an oz. (hey every bit counts haha). It shouldn't be a big deal considering it doesn't "change" the sig brace. Not modifying and cutting off the flaps for the arm part would be different as I've seen in other post, but maybe putting "holes" or rectangle cuts down the flaps might lighten it a bit more without changing the actual design. Below is a picture of proposed cuts. I'll think about this and possibly try it out later. **The red is where it would be cut. I'm sure using a razor blade that is extremely sharp would be able to cut nicely. <a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/user/southkhaki19/media/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/southkhaki19/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg"/></a> View Quote Your link doesn't work. EDIT: I was able to cut and paste the URL. That is exactly what I'm talking about although I don't know if I would change the outline of the flaps.How was it cutting the material? I had thought about trying to drill on it but this kind of rubbery compound is difficult to machine. A razor blade is probably the only way to go but I'm a little afraid I would bugger it up. I wonder if this would work... http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-16-diameter-Arch-Punch-for-Leather-fabric-plastic-/260859513744 |
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[#11]
It wasn't difficult at all. As long as you get one of those construction razors that have a handle. The blade will slice right through. It's fairly pliable rubber. If you have issues you can always heat it up and slice it. As for the cuts I made. I just made a slight slice with a ruler and then threw that to the side and just pushed really hard and followed my little line I precut. Very simple. Most of the stuff has a "straight" line in the rubber so you really only have to follow that.
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[#13]
Quoted:
Pics as promised(crappy cell phone). It weighs 6 lbs 14 oz. with the optic but I still plan on adding a Surefire light and buis. I'd like to keep it under 7 lbs with everything so I need to shave about 5 to 6 ounces off the SB15 Noveske 6.8 10.5" Stainless Barrel with AAC Blackout 51T Spikes Lower with Brownells LPK with ACT Trigger LMT Bolt Carrier with LWRC Enhanced Bolt Barrel, Gas Block and Bolt Carrier coated with Robar NP3 Plus KAK tube with Noveske QD end plate KAC handstop Seekins IRMT Upper with V2 Mod Rail Mixture of half Tungsten Gray Cerakote and half Armor Black BadCass Safety Phase 5 bolt release BCM Grip and Gunfighter Charging Handle Aimpoint T1 on LaRue Mount http://imageshack.com/a/img901/8162/PvStUB.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/537/v5EBl6.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/909/D2VZOl.jpg View Quote I like that....a lot. I guess I will build myself a pistol and see if my marriage can withstand it, again. |
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[#14]
This is approx 3-4oz cut off. Remember you must leave the basic functionality. It actually almost looks just like the new SBX Brace from Sig. If you cut at an angle up to the "Made in USA" i'm sure it would be another oz or 2. That is pretty thick right there and should still retain a lot of the rigidity of the brace.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/southkhaki19/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/20140915_175228.jpg |
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[#16]
To anyone that's removing material form their braces, please do us all a favor and weigh the material you're removing so we can precisely determine what the weight savings are. Considering how many people feel the SB15 is heavy I believe that our judge of weight is a bit off. Case in point - someone on this forum was told by the Sig factory rep that the SB15 weighed 22 oz and as I found that number was off by almost a factor of two.
One of the key thing in making a lightweight build of any kind is knowing precisely what the weight are for the parts you're using in your build. A few ounces here, a few ounces there and suddenly the weapon has gained a pound. |
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[#17]
I have the material I shaved off. I received my H-1 mount today which states it is 2.2oz and the material I took off is clearly heavier than that. It could possibly be close to 3-4oz. I will try to find something to weigh it. Maybe at work i might have a scale. It may look like a lot was removed but it actually wasn't much. If you go up to the area and make diagonal cuts you could possibly take a few more oz. It is solid and thick like the front nub was. Will update when possible. Seeing the SBX that is coming out I feel a bit more comfortable removing material. It actually looks just like it and I hadn't even seen the picture until I removed what I have thus-far.
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[#18]
You totally nailed it on the shape. I'm definitely going to cut the nub. I am still thinking about drilling just below the buffer tube and parallel to it while leaving the cross members intact where they would rest on your forearm.
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[#19]
Quoted:
To anyone that's removing material form their braces, please do us all a favor and weigh the material you're removing so we can precisely determine what the weight savings are. Considering how many people feel the SB15 is heavy I believe that our judge of weight is a bit off. Case in point - someone on this forum was told by the Sig factory rep that the SB15 weighed 22 oz and as I found that number was off by almost a factor of two. One of the key thing in making a lightweight build of any kind is knowing precisely what the weight are for the parts you're using in your build. A few ounces here, a few ounces there and suddenly the weapon has gained a pound. View Quote I wasn't willing to compromise on the barrel weight since I was already going with a 10.5". I also weighed the difference (literally) between just a standard forged upper with the Seekins rail and the IRMT. The difference was 2.7 ounces more in going with the IRMT. I selected the T-1 for its light weight and instead of going with a full sized light I am using the X-300 Ultra. There really isn't any other place to trim weight really except in the stock and maybe the bolt carrier but I am reluctant to use the super light weight ones for fear of dependability issues. I also thought about trying one of the polymer lowers from JMT. That would cut another 3 to 4 ounces off a standard lower. |
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[#20]
Quoted:
I like that....a lot. I guess I will build myself a pistol and see if my marriage can withstand it, again. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Pics as promised(crappy cell phone). It weighs 6 lbs 14 oz. with the optic but I still plan on adding a Surefire light and buis. I'd like to keep it under 7 lbs with everything so I need to shave about 5 to 6 ounces off the SB15 Noveske 6.8 10.5" Stainless Barrel with AAC Blackout 51T Spikes Lower with Brownells LPK with ACT Trigger LMT Bolt Carrier with LWRC Enhanced Bolt Barrel, Gas Block and Bolt Carrier coated with Robar NP3 Plus KAK tube with Noveske QD end plate KAC handstop Seekins IRMT Upper with V2 Mod Rail Mixture of half Tungsten Gray Cerakote and half Armor Black BadCass Safety Phase 5 bolt release BCM Grip and Gunfighter Charging Handle Aimpoint T1 on LaRue Mount http://imageshack.com/a/img901/8162/PvStUB.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/537/v5EBl6.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/909/D2VZOl.jpg I like that....a lot. I guess I will build myself a pistol and see if my marriage can withstand it, again. The nice thing about a build like this, if you are patient, you can siphon the funds off over the course of a year or more so it's not like $1,500 is missing from your credit card or checking account all at once. |
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[#21]
Quoted: I wasn't willing to compromise on the barrel weight since I was already going with a 10.5". I also weighed the difference (literally) between just a standard forged upper with the Seekins rail and the IRMT. The difference was 2.7 ounces more in going with the IRMT. I selected the T-1 for its light weight and instead of going with a full sized light I am using the X-300 Ultra. There really isn't any other place to trim weight really except in the stock and maybe the bolt carrier but I am reluctant to use the super light weight ones for fear of dependability issues. I also thought about trying one of the polymer lowers from JMT. That would cut another 3 to 4 ounces off a standard lower. View Quote I wouldn't cut weight in the bolt carrier either nor would I compromise with a poly lower but that's just me. |
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[#22]
View Quote |
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[#23]
Quoted:
I'd like to keep it under 7 lbs with everything so I need to shave about 5 to 6 ounces off the SB15 View Quote Let's see here. Where can we shave weight. Hmmmmm. Get rid of the rail and get a BCM KMR save about 4oz. their. Get a forged reciever save about 2 ounces like you said. Doesn't look like your going to mount a suppressor by the teeth are covered up by the rail and the suppressor mounts add weight. Save a 1/2oz their. No need to shave anything really. Or sell the Sig brace and get the new one and be done with it. |
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[#24]
Quoted: Or sell the Sig brace and get the new one and be done with it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'd like to keep it under 7 lbs with everything so I need to shave about 5 to 6 ounces off the SB15 |
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[#25]
Quick follow up - I just go off the phone with Sig and they do not have a weight on the SBX. I was told "they don't have that level of granularity on it" so until someone gets one in their hands and weighs it we can only guess what it weighs.
I'd chop up my SB-15 and weigh it myself but I don't think it's worth doing until I at least get it mounted up. Even then I don't think its weight will warrant reduction for me. |
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[#26]
Quoted:
The only source (Sig factory rep) for the weight on the new Sig brace has said with weighs a little over 10 oz which is only 2 ounces less than the current Sig brace. Folks in this thread state they've removed more weight than that from the SB15 but we've yet to get the weight of the pieces removed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd like to keep it under 7 lbs with everything so I need to shave about 5 to 6 ounces off the SB15 I've been trying to find a scale. The hours I work it is difficult for me just to run down to the post office to have weighed since they open when I'm asleep and close when I'm unavailable due to my child. I'm having my wife weigh it hopefully tomorrow with their postal scale at work. Updates will be given as soon as possible. |
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[#28]
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[#29]
Quoted:
I cut my SB15 down a bit to try to get closer to the SBX look. Didn't quite take 3 oz. off the weight. http://i.imgur.com/DM5KxI7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Q4ME06Rl.jpg View Quote Pert durn cool. What does actual entire unmodifed SB15 weigh? Never have seen actual weight posted and like most everyone else don't want to pull mine off to find out. - OS |
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[#30]
Quoted: I cut my SB15 down a bit to try to get closer to the SBX look. Didn't quite take 3 oz. off the weight. http://i.imgur.com/DM5KxI7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Q4ME06Rl.jpg View Quote |
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[#31]
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[#32]
Quoted:
I already posted the weight of the stock SB15 in the thread - 5th post 1st page. It's 11.89 ounces. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: What does actual entire unmodifed SB15 weigh? Never have seen actual weight posted and like most everyone else don't want to pull mine off to find out.
Thankee kindly, missed it somehow or other, getting on up there and all I guess. :) - OS |
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[#33]
What paint will stick to the brace. Worried that most paint would crack when the brace is flexed.
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[#34]
Quoted:
I cut my SB15 down a bit to try to get closer to the SBX look. Didn't quite take 3 oz. off the weight. http://i.imgur.com/DM5KxI7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Q4ME06Rl.jpg View Quote I don't plan on cutting my SB15 down, but I am going to round off the top to remove the sharp corners at the rear of the flat area. It is interesting that the SBX is totally round on top. Coincidence, or an improvement once the ruling came down that shouldering the brace (and therefore laying your face against the top) is legal? The SB47 is round on top as well. My SB15s will be rounded soon. My 7.5" pistol weighs a hair over 6 pounds so I don't see a need to cut parts off of it. |
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[#35]
The parts removed were approx 2oz. (weighed) .. If you take up the wings a little bit and take off the thicker part (like someone did) you could probably get right at 3oz or a little more than the 2.8oz than posted earlier. I think that is a good trade off while still retaining the function of the original product.
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[#36]
I really appreciate you taking the time to weigh the parts you cut. Giving people the objective data on the change makes it easier to decide if it's worth doing or not.
As it stands now your brace weighs pretty much the same as a Mapul CTR. :) Good job. |
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[#37]
Quoted:
Giving people the objective data on the change makes it easier to decide if it's worth doing or not. View Quote Now I'd like see an independently weighed SBX. Also a verification of the claimed 4.5 oz weight of the Shockwave Blade if/when it comes to market. |
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[#38]
if anyone dose this to a FDE one i would like to see if the scraps take dye it may be possible to change the color of it
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[#39]
Quoted: Also a verification of the claimed 4.5 oz weight of the Shockwave Blade if/when it comes to market. View Quote |
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[#40]
Quoted:
I think at some point a light brace can have a negative effect in that it unbalances the pistol. Strapping the pistol to one's arm helps to stabilize the weight also does as well. An unbalanced pistol will feel heavier than a balanced one. View Quote Good point. I'd rather have the brace be as light as possible, and add weight as needed rather than remove weight from a finished product. |
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[#41]
I don't mind a brace that's 8-16 oz as long as it balances out the pistol.
I'm building one of my pistols this weekend and it will have a 11.5 BCM lightweight barrel, 11" Troy Alpha Rail and Magpul AFG. All of those aren't super heavy so the brace should balance out nicely with it. |
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[#42]
The balance is a non-issue on my 7.5" pistol with an unmodified brace and Samson Evo 7.6" rail. I never gave it any consideration, and don't notice or think about it while shooting.
I don't think anyone who picked it up would say "hey, this is pretty cool, but the balance is a little off". The RO who shot mine on its maiden outing certainly didn' have any negative comments. |
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[#43]
I don't imagine a 7.5" bbl will have much in the way balance issues but not everyone runs that short a barrel (e.g. I'm running a 11.5" bbl) and one's chosen muzzle device can also come into play (e.g. Noveske Flaming Pig and the like can be heavy). Weapon balance is just something I like be aware of, that's all.
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[#44]
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[#45]
Quoted:
Actually I was searching around for something like this topic. I really want to know if anyone has taken off the front nub with a razor or something. It's a bit useless frankly. It just kind of hands there and it might lighten it an oz. (hey every bit counts haha). It shouldn't be a big deal considering it doesn't "change" the sig brace. Not modifying and cutting off the flaps for the arm part would be different as I've seen in other post, but maybe putting "holes" or rectangle cuts down the flaps might lighten it a bit more without changing the actual design. Below is a picture of proposed cuts. I'll think about this and possibly try it out later. **The red is where it would be cut. I'm sure using a razor blade that is extremely sharp would be able to cut nicely. <a href="http://s98.photobucket.com/user/southkhaki19/media/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/southkhaki19/PSA%20AR-15%20and%20Gun%20Accessory%20Case/My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo My_AR-Pistol_Build_1-1.jpg"/></a> View Quote Which buffer tube is that? |
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[#46]
I cut the nub off. It only weighed 3 gms. Still debating where else I might shave a few more ounces off it.
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[#47]
Quoted:
I cut my SB15 down a bit to try to get closer to the SBX look. Didn't quite take 3 oz. off the weight. http://i.imgur.com/DM5KxI7l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Q4ME06Rl.jpg View Quote I like the way that looks, can you show us an overall picture showing the entire pistol, pleas? Thanks! |
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[#48]
I modified my sig brace with a form 1,
Lightened it up quite a bit.. |
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[#49]
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[#50]
Looks good....thanks.
I have never seen the clear lower before. |
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