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Posted: 9/7/2014 1:27:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Did you try loading only one round to seed if it locks back on the mag catch?
Should not need a heavier buffer or spring to get the bolt to go into battery. 1. Check to make sure your bolt slides in easily and doesn't hang up on the gas tube. 2. Take the bolt and firing pin out of the carrier and clean everything real good, then oil it up good before reassembly. |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 2:20:56 AM EDT
[#2]
I used a 2 different bcg's and both would ftf
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Posted: 9/7/2014 8:46:23 AM EDT
[#3]
If you take off the upper can you close the bolt on a live cartridge? Hook the round under the extractor and guide it in. Sounds like you could have an issue with headspace or with the barrel extension.
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Posted: 9/7/2014 9:58:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you take off the upper can you close the bolt on a live cartridge? Hook the round under the extractor and guide it in. Sounds like you could have an issue with headspace or with the barrel extension. I'll try that today. How do I fix either of those issues? I'm using a billet SAA upper, integrity arms 10.5" melonite barrel, AIM nitride bcg and rainier arms force rail. I would think with quality parts I wouldn't have this issue. |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 10:27:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Get your hands on a set of headspace gauges and size the chamber.
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Posted: 9/7/2014 10:35:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Head space is the relationship between the bolt and barrel extension. The only thing you can do if head space is off is try a different bolt. You already did that, so there is a possibility the barrel extension is the problem. You will need to borrow or buy the gauges or have a gunsmith check it.
Look at the basics first though. Is there enough lube on the bolt and carrier? Is there any gunk in the barrel extension? Do the feed ramps line up correctly? As already posted, does the gas tube line up correctly with the gas key? Are the gas key bolts loose? Are they staked correctly? |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 12:41:09 PM EDT
[#7]
I cleaned everything and lubed. I can cycle brass .223 all day long, but when I try to cycle steel .223 Tula, it hangs up. I tried to shoot xm193 that I bought at the ar15.com booth at canton and it would only shoot one round and hang up yesterday. I have not tried to actually shoot .223 brass yet. This is a .223 Wylde chamber but I would think this shouldn't make a difference.
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Posted: 9/7/2014 3:23:03 PM EDT
[#8]
If you load one round in the magazine, chamber the round, then fire it, does the bolt lock back on the empty magazine?
Try some quality brass ammo. Load it as above. If it fires one round and locks the bolt back on the empty mag, then load 2 or 3 rounds and see if it functions. If it doesn't lock back on the empty magazine firing one round your gun is under gassed or your buffer is too heavy. |
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Posted: 9/7/2014 3:46:45 PM EDT
[#9]
I wont go to the range again until next weekend probably so I cant fire a round. I am using a standard carbine buffer.
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Posted: 9/7/2014 6:12:52 PM EDT
[#10]
What kind / what manufacturer of gas block do you have and how did you mount it, against the shoulder or spaced off the shoulder?
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Posted: 9/7/2014 8:17:02 PM EDT
[#11]
YHM low pro gas block and its slid all the way against the shoulder
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Posted: 9/8/2014 6:27:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wont go to the range again until next weekend probably so I cant fire a round. I am using a standard carbine buffer. Well then you can't really trouble shoot it until you can get to the range. |
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Posted: 9/8/2014 8:41:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Get a piece of tubing from a pet store used for aquarium pumps, and attach it to your gas tube. Blow in it as you try moving the gas block back a tiny bit. If you feel it is easier to blow through with some adjustment, you have found your problem.
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Posted: 9/13/2014 5:25:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Bolt will not extract a round now. I took it to the range and I get a FTE every time I put 1 round in the magazine and fire. I also moved the gas block off the shoulder slightly and there was no change. It did this with 5.56 brass. I also tried an H2 buffer and same result. So I am leaning towards getting an adjustable gas block. What do yall think?
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Posted: 9/13/2014 5:43:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bolt will not extract a round now. I took it to the range and I get a FTE every time I put 1 round in the magazine and fire. I also moved the gas block off the shoulder slightly and there was no change. It did this with 5.56 brass. I also tried an H2 buffer and same result. So I am leaning towards getting an adjustable gas block. What do yall think? Meaning what? 1. carrier comes all the way back leaving round in chamber or 2. carrier stops on backward movement and extractor is still holding onto casing? - OS |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 5:52:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bolt will not extract a round now. I took it to the range and I get a FTE every time I put 1 round in the magazine and fire. I also moved the gas block off the shoulder slightly and there was no change. It did this with 5.56 brass. I also tried an H2 buffer and same result. So I am leaning towards getting an adjustable gas block. What do yall think? |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 7:13:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does the bolt lock back after the last round? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bolt will not extract a round now. I took it to the range and I get a FTE every time I put 1 round in the magazine and fire. I also moved the gas block off the shoulder slightly and there was no change. It did this with 5.56 brass. I also tried an H2 buffer and same result. So I am leaning towards getting an adjustable gas block. What do yall think? No, it doesn't even extract so the bolt never makes it past the magazine |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 7:47:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meaning what? 1. carrier comes all the way back leaving round in chamber or 2. carrier stops on backward movement and extractor is still holding onto casing? - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bolt will not extract a round now. I took it to the range and I get a FTE every time I put 1 round in the magazine and fire. I also moved the gas block off the shoulder slightly and there was no change. It did this with 5.56 brass. I also tried an H2 buffer and same result. So I am leaning towards getting an adjustable gas block. What do yall think? Meaning what? 1. carrier comes all the way back leaving round in chamber or 2. carrier stops on backward movement and extractor is still holding onto casing? - OS #2 |
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Posted: 9/13/2014 11:07:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
#2 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bolt will not extract a round now. I took it to the range and I get a FTE every time I put 1 round in the magazine and fire. I also moved the gas block off the shoulder slightly and there was no change. It did this with 5.56 brass. I also tried an H2 buffer and same result. So I am leaning towards getting an adjustable gas block. What do yall think? Meaning what? 1. carrier comes all the way back leaving round in chamber or 2. carrier stops on backward movement and extractor is still holding onto casing? - OS #2 Either not getting near enough gas or something majorly out of whack causing bind. Pursuant to your first post, a heavier buffer is the last thing you need right now. Does it cycle smoothly by hand, no binding or "catch" as it pushes back against recoil buffer and spring? When you let go of charging handle, does bolt seat and lock into barrel extension with no shell? Does it seat with a shell? (apparently it does, since you say you are firing it, just going back to basics) - OS |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 9:21:27 AM EDT
[#20]
The only binding I could possibly see is the upper and charging handle. I bought an SAA billet assembled upper and mating it to a forged aluminum lower, it is so tight that I have to use a hammer to get the take down pins in. I have tried other uppers and the go in no problem, so its not the lower. Also, it seems like the charging handle binds just slightly when it slides over the gas tube and just sliding in and out of the upper. There are significant wear marks already on the charging handle on the sides and front without much use. Could the upper be out of spec? I sent SAA an email to see what they think also. Would it be better to just go ahead and purchase an adjustable gas block and try it out, then it seems like that would eliminate it being a gas issue.
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Posted: 9/14/2014 3:34:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only binding I could possibly see is the upper and charging handle. I bought an SAA billet assembled upper and mating it to a forged aluminum lower, it is so tight that I have to use a hammer to get the take down pins in. I have tried other uppers and the go in no problem, so its not the lower. Also, it seems like the charging handle binds just slightly when it slides over the gas tube and just sliding in and out of the upper. There are significant wear marks already on the charging handle on the sides and front without much use. Could the upper be out of spec? I sent SAA an email to see what they think also. Would it be better to just go ahead and purchase an adjustable gas block and try it out, then it seems like that would eliminate it being a gas issue. No, none of that sounds out of spec. Some upper/lower combinations are just tighter than others, that doesn't cause a bind, and wear on charging handle is normal, and it's no longer in play once gun is charged anyway. Again, if you can cycle it by hand and it locks into battery both with and without a cartridge, all is probably well. Really just seems to be simple gas problem, like not enough. Adjustable gas blocks are most helpful for overgassed guns, yours seems to be the opposite. So, you did not build the upper, correct? What's in there, a low profile block under handguard, railed one at end of it, or A2 pinned sight base block? common reasons for undergassing: - misaligned gas block - loose gas block - crimped or blocked gas tube - crud or shaving or something in gas port - loose gas key - rarely, gas port too small Also, once in a blue moon a chamber will be too tight, out of spec, or full of hard deposit crud, but if you can hand cycle rounds in and out of it with no prob that's almost certainly not the case here. You might want to just deal with maker on this one since it is new and you didn't build it. - OS |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 4:27:40 PM EDT
[#22]
I built this upper. The gas block is aligned properly after measuring and fitting. So I can try a new gas tube or/and gas block. Could the ports on either the barrel or gas block be too small? Should there be a little back and forth play between the gas tube and gas block? I can move it ever so slightly back and forth with the pin installed.
SAA billet upper receiver Aim nitride bcg Standard charging handle YHM low pro gas block Carbine length gas tube |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 4:50:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I built this upper. The gas block is aligned properly after measuring and fitting. So I can try a new gas tube or/and gas block. Could the ports on either the barrel or gas block be too small? Should there be a little back and forth play between the gas tube and gas block? I can move it ever so slightly back and forth with the pin installed. SAA billet upper receiver Aim nitride bcg Standard charging handle YHM low pro gas block Carbine length gas tube Oh, well you said "I bought an SAA billet assembled upper", but anyway, I'll let others take it from here, can only say for whatever reason, sure seems the carrier simply ain't getting enough gas. Could of course be wrong, but I'll be really interested in exact cause if it's some other prob. Last thought: you sure that tube is in there right? It doesn't extend further back into upper receiver than another one you can compare too, right? - OS |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 7:05:22 PM EDT
[#24]
I did buy an assembled upper, that's different than a complete upper. Yes, it looks the exact same as my other build that I did and it has ran flawless over 300 rounds so far, but it is a 16". I agree, its not getting enough gas somehow. One of the ports must be smaller than advertised somewhere. So an adjustable gas block will not allow me to add more gas into the gas tube and possibly solve this issue?
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Posted: 9/14/2014 7:24:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did buy an assembled upper, that's different than a complete upper. Yes, it looks the exact same as my other build that I did and it has ran flawless over 300 rounds so far, but it is a 16". I agree, its not getting enough gas somehow. One of the ports must be smaller than advertised somewhere. So an adjustable gas block will not allow me to add more gas into the gas tube and possibly solve this issue? Only if the current gas block is indeed in place correctly but defective, in which case a proper spec one would work, whether adjustable or not. Any of the other possible causes would not change. - OS |
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Posted: 9/14/2014 7:45:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Ill go buy some digital calipers and see what the dimensions are. If the barrel port is too small, how hard is it to increase the size? Should I just send it back to the manufacturer instead of drilling it out?
Here is a picture of the barrel gas port. Looks like the gas block is lined up judging by the ring around the port. 
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Posted: 9/15/2014 3:37:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Subscribing, as i am having about the same issue as the op.new 10.5" RA select barrel build, cant get mine to run right either, double feeding, not locking bolt back..Tried st-t2 buffer and carbine, along with pmc 223 and federal lc 556 and pmc 556 and my reloads and all were the same except the lc 556 stuff with the carbine buffer, i could hammer 5 out quickly and it would run fine and lock bolt, but when going slow it wont run right,..mine also cycles some dummy rounds and locks the bolt back when i play with it..
Going back out tomorrow and just took everything apart and cleaned it, verified gas wasnt plugged and aligned good. pulled off oring out of ra bcg, just to see... So im watching your issue as mine is about the same. i will see how my attempt goes tomorrow, gonna bring another bcg also |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 5:17:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll try that today. How do I fix either of those issues? I'm using a billet SAA upper, integrity arms 10.5" melonite barrel, AIM nitride bcg and rainier arms force rail. I would think with quality parts I wouldn't have this issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you take off the upper can you close the bolt on a live cartridge? Hook the round under the extractor and guide it in. Sounds like you could have an issue with headspace or with the barrel extension. I'll try that today. How do I fix either of those issues? I'm using a billet SAA upper, integrity arms 10.5" melonite barrel, AIM nitride bcg and rainier arms force rail. I would think with quality parts I wouldn't have this issue. Hi, it looks like we have the same issue. Mine is also from integrity arms. I opened up my gas port to .078" then changed my buffer spring. See my build thread HERE. It's now shooting smoothly. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 7:11:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hi, it looks like we have the same issue. Mine is also from integrity arms. I opened up my gas port to .078" then changed my buffer spring. See my build thread HERE. It's now shooting smoothly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you take off the upper can you close the bolt on a live cartridge? Hook the round under the extractor and guide it in. Sounds like you could have an issue with headspace or with the barrel extension. I'll try that today. How do I fix either of those issues? I'm using a billet SAA upper, integrity arms 10.5" melonite barrel, AIM nitride bcg and rainier arms force rail. I would think with quality parts I wouldn't have this issue. Hi, it looks like we have the same issue. Mine is also from integrity arms. I opened up my gas port to .078" then changed my buffer spring. See my build thread HERE. It's now shooting smoothly. What was the process and what size drill but did u use to open the gas port on the barrel? |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 8:31:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was the process and what size drill but did u use to open the gas port on the barrel? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you take off the upper can you close the bolt on a live cartridge? Hook the round under the extractor and guide it in. Sounds like you could have an issue with headspace or with the barrel extension. I'll try that today. How do I fix either of those issues? I'm using a billet SAA upper, integrity arms 10.5" melonite barrel, AIM nitride bcg and rainier arms force rail. I would think with quality parts I wouldn't have this issue. Hi, it looks like we have the same issue. Mine is also from integrity arms. I opened up my gas port to .078" then changed my buffer spring. See my build thread HERE. It's now shooting smoothly. What was the process and what size drill but did u use to open the gas port on the barrel? #47 drill bit. just go slow and use plenty of lube
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Posted: 9/15/2014 8:33:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was the process and what size drill but did u use to open the gas port on the barrel? I don't know if there is really a right process nor I'm saying mine is a correct one. What I did was I put it in a vise then drill the hole slowly using 5/64 bit and a compact drill and WD40. I think it is better if you use drill press. If you're not comfortable doing it yourself, just find someone who can do it for you, a gunsmith perhaps. |
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Posted: 9/15/2014 9:29:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Is it possible to open the port too big? Couldn't u use a heavier buffer to compensate for more gas if it's way over gassed? Would that be beneficial to do?
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:32:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Mine was also .068 so I used a 5/64 bit and drilled it out. Looks like now it's about .081, is that too big?
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:54:16 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine was also .068 so I used a 5/64 bit and drilled it out. Looks like now it's about .081, is that too big? That should be okay. If it's too big, it will cycle a little more violently or harshly. Not out of control harsh, you will just feel more push at the shoulder. If that's the case, then try a heavier buffer or improved buffer spring. Once those are added, if you feel it's still too harsh, you could add an adjustable gas block and dial in the volume of gas. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 12:16:02 AM EDT
[#35]
It shoots and ejects now, but does not lock back. I know for a fact the issue is the bolt release. It is not opening fully for some reason and catching the bolt on an empty mag. Did I maybe get a bad spring and decent? It does not feel like the button moves freely, like it's dragging on something. Can I possibly shave a little bit of the bolt catch so that is not so right inside the lower without sacrificing reliability? Or should I is it try a new one from a parts kit?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 1:09:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It shoots and ejects now, but does not lock back. I know for a fact the issue is the bolt release. It is not opening fully for some reason and catching the bolt on an empty mag. Did I maybe get a bad spring and decent? It does not feel like the button moves freely, like it's dragging on something. Can I possibly shave a little bit of the bolt catch so that is not so right inside the lower without sacrificing reliability? Or should I is it try a new one from a parts kit? Sure the roll pin is all the way through it and not just into one end and jammed? Detente isn't backwards, is it? Spring not crimped during installation? I'd take it apart and redo it to make sure. - OS |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 4:29:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It shoots and ejects now, but does not lock back. I know for a fact the issue is the bolt release. It is not opening fully for some reason and catching the bolt on an empty mag. Did I maybe get a bad spring and decent? It does not feel like the button moves freely, like it's dragging on something. Can I possibly shave a little bit of the bolt catch so that is not so right inside the lower without sacrificing reliability? Or should I is it try a new one from a parts kit? Please take a look at this video. Your buffer tube might be out of spec and the bolt might not have enough room to go all the way back to catch it. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:46:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure the roll pin is all the way through it and not just into one end and jammed? Detente isn't backwards, is it? Spring not crimped during installation? I'd take it apart and redo it to make sure. - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It shoots and ejects now, but does not lock back. I know for a fact the issue is the bolt release. It is not opening fully for some reason and catching the bolt on an empty mag. Did I maybe get a bad spring and decent? It does not feel like the button moves freely, like it's dragging on something. Can I possibly shave a little bit of the bolt catch so that is not so right inside the lower without sacrificing reliability? Or should I is it try a new one from a parts kit? Sure the roll pin is all the way through it and not just into one end and jammed? Detente isn't backwards, is it? Spring not crimped during installation? I'd take it apart and redo it to make sure. - OS I will be taking apart, but man I hate dealing with the detent and bolt catch lol. At least it shoots and this is a small issue to fix. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 10:47:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please take a look at this video. Your buffer tube might be out of spec and the bolt might not have enough room to go all the way back to catch it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It shoots and ejects now, but does not lock back. I know for a fact the issue is the bolt release. It is not opening fully for some reason and catching the bolt on an empty mag. Did I maybe get a bad spring and decent? It does not feel like the button moves freely, like it's dragging on something. Can I possibly shave a little bit of the bolt catch so that is not so right inside the lower without sacrificing reliability? Or should I is it try a new one from a parts kit? Please take a look at this video. Your buffer tube might be out of spec and the bolt might not have enough room to go all the way back to catch it. I had to grind the buffer tube down a bit (got it off ebay like an idiot), now my upper lower fitment is more loose so i dont have to hammer it in. |
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