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Page AR-15 » AR Pistols
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:00:37 PM EDT
Ok so my grandpa was a FFL dealer he retired and sold most of his stuff. When he passed away I got the okay to purchase a ruger 10/22 and a "frankengun" It's a ar lower with a 9mm upper the barrel is 7 inches. My grandma had a guy look at it he said it was illegal? After reading a lot of forums I'm sure it's not. However it is incomplete she says it needs a gas system for it, I have never owned a weapon thats my knowledge level.... complete noob. Thanks to his passing I am now highly interested in firearms and would like to finish his build. I pick it up saturday what kind of gas system do I need?
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 8:17:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Most 9MM ARs do not need a gas system to operate, so it may actually be illegal, but more information is required to make that determination.  Now, with that being said, I would not post that information here, but go to your hometown forum to see if there is someone locally that could take a look and give you some advice...
 






ETA:  Since your grandfather was a FFL, it may have been legal for him, but would need to be transferred on a Form 5 (free) to any heirs or a Form 4 ($200 tax and long wait) if sold or given to someone else...
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 8:28:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the advice I will definetly take it to someone locally and see what needs to be done and if it is legal or a sick bird.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 8:42:06 PM EDT
[#3]
No problem.  It's difficult enough dealing with the passing of a loved one, especially one who may have owned regulated items, and no one knows that they may be illegal for anyone else to possess...
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 8:47:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Why is it illegal if it doesn't need a gas system? if it does end up being illeagal if I seperate the lower and the upper and use them in different builds it should be legal again yes? I'm in Arizona btw don't know if that helps at all
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 9:03:21 PM EDT
[#5]
It's not the gas system, or lack thereof, that determines legality; it's the configuration and operability.  Use the hometown forum links at the top or bottom of these pages to find someone locally to advise you.  There are many Arfcom members in AZ...
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 9:11:31 PM EDT
[#6]
There are some good folks in the AZ HTF, hopefully someone can help you.
Welcome to the site.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 9:24:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Thank you both very much, I never knew how awsome guns were until now. Now I know why my grandpa liked them so much you can customize an ar like crazy.
Link Posted: 8/19/2014 9:27:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thank you both very much, I never knew how awsome guns were until now. Now I know why my grandpa liked them so much you can customize an ar like crazy.
View Quote


You just caught Black Rifle Disease.
There's no cure.


Link Posted: 9/3/2014 10:31:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Just an update, my grandmother wanted to make sure it was safe before giving it to me. She took it to a gun dealer they tried to shoot it and it "blew up" dissapointed but now my focus will be on another platform I will post a new thread if i don't find it. AR15 vs AR10 the good the bad and the ugly
Link Posted: 9/3/2014 10:44:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Are you serious
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 12:02:29 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm gonna have to call shenanigans without images.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 7:00:01 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
I'm gonna have to call shenanigans without images.
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Grandma took it back to the same guy who originally told her it was illegal.  He offered to dispose of it for free..  kind gentleman now has a full auto colt 9mm for free.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 8:04:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just an update, my grandmother wanted to make sure it was safe before giving it to me. She took it to a gun dealer they tried to shoot it and it "blew up" dissapointed but now my focus will be on another platform I will post a new thread if i don't find it. AR15 vs AR10 the good the bad and the ugly
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I don't believe this, and neither should you.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 9:03:54 AM EDT
[#14]
More info dude, what the hell is going on with that thing that it's illegal? I never heard of a lack of a gas system making the thing illegal. And blown up? WTF?!
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 9:04:04 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just an update, my grandmother wanted to make sure it was safe before giving it to me. She took it to a gun dealer they tried to shoot it and it "blew up" dissapointed but now my focus will be on another platform I will post a new thread if i don't find it. AR15 vs AR10 the good the bad and the ugly
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Sounds like they stole it from her & came up with a line of BS
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 11:40:44 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


Sounds like they stole it from her & came up with a line of BS
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just an update, my grandmother wanted to make sure it was safe before giving it to me. She took it to a gun dealer they tried to shoot it and it "blew up" dissapointed but now my focus will be on another platform I will post a new thread if i don't find it. AR15 vs AR10 the good the bad and the ugly


Sounds like they stole it from her & came up with a line of BS


Yup, complete lie.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 12:25:33 PM EDT
[#17]
The ignorance and BS in this thread is amazing, google nfa and sbr laws. If it's an ar pistol it would be legal.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 12:49:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Any chance of a picture of the firearm?   With a 7" barrel, does it have a stock on it or not?

And you need to sort out right quick whether the shop lied to your grandmother about the gun "blowing up", or if that is a story your grandmother told you because she was uncomfortable about giving the gun to you, particularly if she wasn't sure about it's legality.

Link Posted: 9/4/2014 2:36:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Any chance of a picture of the firearm?   With a 7" barrel, does it have a stock on it or not?

And you need to sort out right quick whether the shop lied to your grandmother about the gun "blowing up", or if that is a story your grandmother told you because she was uncomfortable about giving the gun to you, particularly if she wasn't sure about it's legality.

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I'm not trying to bs anyone seriously thats what I was told, I called her back up and she said they gave her $300 for it. They said the lower had a "recall" and so she didn't want me having it. I think they ripped her off as well the upper was a sturling mark or something like that. Its shitty they knew her husband just died and ripped her off I'm going to find out the name of this shop and let you all know.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 3:09:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm not trying to bs anyone seriously thats what I was told, I called her back up and she said they gave her $300 for it. They said the lower had a "recall" and so she didn't want me having it. I think they ripped her off as well the upper was a sturling mark or something like that. Its shitty they knew her husband just died and ripped her off I'm going to find out the name of this shop and let you all know.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of a picture of the firearm?   With a 7" barrel, does it have a stock on it or not?

And you need to sort out right quick whether the shop lied to your grandmother about the gun "blowing up", or if that is a story your grandmother told you because she was uncomfortable about giving the gun to you, particularly if she wasn't sure about it's legality.



I'm not trying to bs anyone seriously thats what I was told, I called her back up and she said they gave her $300 for it. They said the lower had a "recall" and so she didn't want me having it. I think they ripped her off as well the upper was a sturling mark or something like that. Its shitty they knew her husband just died and ripped her off I'm going to find out the name of this shop and let you all know.


If those are the facts, I virtually guarantee that the shop lied to your grandmother.

Recall on a lower?   Was it aluminum or plastic?   The story smells worse and worse with every detail.   I would be challenging that shop to explain themselves in person.
Link Posted: 9/4/2014 3:51:38 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:


If those are the facts, I virtually guarantee that the shop lied to your grandmother.

Recall on a lower?   Was it aluminum or plastic?   The story smells worse and worse with every detail.   I would be challenging that shop to explain themselves in person.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of a picture of the firearm?   With a 7" barrel, does it have a stock on it or not?

And you need to sort out right quick whether the shop lied to your grandmother about the gun "blowing up", or if that is a story your grandmother told you because she was uncomfortable about giving the gun to you, particularly if she wasn't sure about it's legality.



I'm not trying to bs anyone seriously thats what I was told, I called her back up and she said they gave her $300 for it. They said the lower had a "recall" and so she didn't want me having it. I think they ripped her off as well the upper was a sturling mark or something like that. Its shitty they knew her husband just died and ripped her off I'm going to find out the name of this shop and let you all know.


If those are the facts, I virtually guarantee that the shop lied to your grandmother.

Recall on a lower?   Was it aluminum or plastic?   The story smells worse and worse with every detail.   I would be challenging that shop to explain themselves in person.

Everything about this story smells bad.  If the store is acting in a legit manner they should be happy to answer any questions the grandson has and show him the parts & pieces.  However, the store has no obligation to discuss any aspect of this with the grandson as he is not a party in the transaction.
Link Posted: 9/5/2014 12:27:00 AM EDT
[#22]
This is all going by hearsay(my opinion since we do not have all the info on said 9mm AR pistol), and this is also to add to the validity that all the other posters have contributed to this thread thus far that you should definitely get a "second opinion" on that weapon.  The only thing that would make this weapon "ILLEGAL" is if (1)the lower was a rifle lower first(meaning the weapon was first a rifle and then built/registered to the ATF in to a pistol), (2)while in yours/grandmothers possession the weapon had a BUTT STOCK on it, and/or (3)was the firearm under 26 inches in overall length(from tip of threads to the end of buffer tube) AND IN CONJECTURE also have a VERTICAL fore grip attached to it.  Both situation 2 and 3 would be very easily remidied.  The lower IF made of some sort of poly/plastic could have very well had a recall on it however would not have been a reason to sell said item on sight, rather look in to and then possibly sell once you were aware of what was in your possession.  

I hope that made sense as some of the pistol/firearm/any other weapon laws can get rather convoluted and confusing at first.

I would definitely go talk to the owner of the store and find out first hand what was really said rather than a game of telephone through your grandmother because we all know how information can be easily mixed up through that line of communication.

BTW:  The capitalized points are meant to emphasize  not to shout.
Link Posted: 9/5/2014 6:14:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Sounds fishy, I would first go talk to the FFL, if they truely took advantage of your grandmother my next stop would be the better business bureau to file a complaint. Those business practices seem extremely shady if true they should be willing to return the item to you if you give them their $300 back. Otherwise there is always the lawsuit route, and also a call to the ATF if they are this shady I would suspect they need a audit of their records.
Link Posted: 9/5/2014 6:44:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Tagged. For whatever this turns out to be.
Link Posted: 9/5/2014 7:01:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Well, if they put a 223 round in a 9mm upper it would fire with catastrophic results.

NEVER TAKE FIREARMS TO GUN SHOPS FOR TECHNICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE.

There are many uninformed people who think that AR Pistol configurations are illegal.  Some of those work in gun shops.  There are many uninformed people who are unfamiliar with the many cartridges that an AR type firearm can be configured to shoot.  Some of those work in gun shops.

If you'd have slowed down and taken heed of advice from here you'd have been in a much better position than you are now.

You got ripped off, the question is how.
Link Posted: 9/5/2014 11:57:22 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
Tagged. For whatever this turns out to be.
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Me too.  I can't help but wonder if it might have been a transferrable registered lower, hence the "recall".  I'm sure they made her sign some random papers to allow them to "dispose of it" as well.  
Link Posted: 9/6/2014 11:03:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm not trying to bs anyone seriously thats what I was told, I called her back up and she said they gave her $300 for it. They said the lower had a "recall" and so she didn't want me having it. I think they ripped her off as well the upper was a sturling mark or something like that. Its shitty they knew her husband just died and ripped her off I'm going to find out the name of this shop and let you all know.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of a picture of the firearm?   With a 7" barrel, does it have a stock on it or not?

And you need to sort out right quick whether the shop lied to your grandmother about the gun "blowing up", or if that is a story your grandmother told you because she was uncomfortable about giving the gun to you, particularly if she wasn't sure about it's legality.



I'm not trying to bs anyone seriously thats what I was told, I called her back up and she said they gave her $300 for it. They said the lower had a "recall" and so she didn't want me having it. I think they ripped her off as well the upper was a sturling mark or something like that. Its shitty they knew her husband just died and ripped her off I'm going to find out the name of this shop and let you all know.



op you said the upper was a sterling upper, they may have told your grandmother the truth. on those tube guns the receiver is the tube.
it is very possible to create a machine gun (by definition of the law) by using the wrong size id. tube, wrong bolt, ect. the gun shop could
have been 100% correct.
Link Posted: 9/6/2014 9:33:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Any word on outcome?
Link Posted: 9/6/2014 10:31:11 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
Any word on outcome?
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Short of the actual FFL appearing, assuming there was one, you'll never get the facts re this saga.

- OS
Link Posted: 9/7/2014 10:44:37 AM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:


Short of the actual FFL appearing, assuming there was one, you'll never get the facts re this saga.

- OS
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Any word on outcome?


Short of the actual FFL appearing, assuming there was one, you'll never get the facts re this saga.

- OS



agreed.

op why not build a new pistol in honor of your grandfather? through psa you could build a 5.56
pistol for about $600. right now is the time to buy, stuff is so cheap right now. my debit card
trembles everytime i open my wallet now.

your grandfather built a pistol when it wasn't the cool thing to do, even though legal things like
that 20 years ago were viewed as loop holes (and most people wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot
pole) so why not do it big now, add a sig brace, red dot optic, just go all out on this build. if you
really want to pay homage to him build it on an 80% lower have it engraved with his name as
the model and his birth date as the serial number (you don't have to engrave anything but man
that would be neat)

today is the day, we can buy high quality parts cheaper then we could buy shit parts 10-15 years
ago.
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