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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:30:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Depends on your buffer tube. The KAK Super SB15 meets the required length - some do not.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:32:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Not a VFG, at least not w/ out a tax stamp. A pistol w/ a VFG is an NFA item, specifically an AOW.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:37:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on your buffer tube. The KAK Super SB15 meets the required length - some do not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on your buffer tube. The KAK Super SB15 meets the required length - some do not. This is truth. Quoted:
Not a VFG, at least not w/ out a tax stamp. A pistol w/ a VFG is an NFA item, specifically an AOW. So here it is: You can put a VFG on your pistol if its OAL is 26.5" or greater. Once said VFG has been added you no longer have a pistol but a firearm, not an AOW. If you do not have an OAL of 26.5" or greater you may only use an AFG. OAL is measured from the tip of the barrel threads to the end of the buffer tube on your weapon. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:02:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Can you use the sig brace for OAL? Like if it sticks out past the buffer tube?
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:05:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you use the sig brace for OAL? Like if it sticks out past the buffer tube? No. It needs to be permanent or required for function. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:05:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOAL is measured from the tip of the barrel threads to the end of the buffer tube on your weapon. So no not the end of the brace. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:10:28 AM EDT
[#7]
thanks for the quick answers. Gotta measure now. Thought it was 26.5. Didn't know it was to the end of the buffer tube.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:48:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
thanks for the quick answers. Gotta measure now. Thought it was 26.5. Didn't know it was to the end of the buffer tube. Remember, muzzle device doesn't count unless permanently attached. - OS |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:18:43 PM EDT
[#9]
I have questions about this to, the letter from the ATF I read said 26" or greater and cannot be carried concealed. My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? I put mine together mainly for a truck weapon and the laws arent as clear as they should be.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 12:56:22 PM EDT
[#10]
I could have gotten it wrong on the 26.5, it may in fact be 26" only. However once turned in to a fire arm, the weapon no longer qualifies under hand gun laws. So you may want to consider taking the VFG off during vehicular transportation.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:01:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have questions about this to, the letter from the ATF I read said 26" or greater and cannot be carried concealed. My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? I put mine together mainly for a truck weapon and the laws arent as clear as they should be. That depends on your state. In PA only a handgun or SBR can be carried loaded in a vehicle. So an AR type firearm like the one you've been discussing could not be carried loaded in a vehicle. In CO you can carry rifles or any other firearm in your vehicle loaded as long as said rifle is not chambered. I would never carry a rifle in a vehicle chambered anyway. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:12:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have questions about this to, the letter from the ATF I read said 26" or greater and cannot be carried concealed. My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? I put mine together mainly for a truck weapon and the laws arent as clear as they should be. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 1:15:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? . They meant 'concealed on your person' when referring to the 26" OAL plus VFG. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 3:28:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a VFG, at least not w/ out a tax stamp. A pistol w/ a VFG is an NFA item, specifically an AOW. 
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Posted: 7/28/2014 3:55:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not a VFG, at least not w/ out a tax stamp. A pistol w/ a VFG is an NFA item, specifically an AOW. http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a543/FUAROCK/tumblr_lbhd6jlq6H1qe0eclo1_r2_500_zpsee5a7c97.gif~original AOW if under 26" if I presume correctly. If over 26" tis firearm. Does "The Dude Abide"? |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:42:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on your buffer tube. The KAK Super SB15 meets the required length - some do not. Midwest Industry's Sig brace tube makes length with a 10.5 barrel as well. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:56:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is truth. So here it is: You can put a VFG on your pistol if its OAL is 26.5" or greater. Once said VFG has been added you no longer have a pistol but a firearm, not an AOW. If you do not have an OAL of 26.5" or greater you may only use an AFG. OAL is measured from the tip of the barrel threads to the end of the buffer tube on your weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Depends on your buffer tube. The KAK Super SB15 meets the required length - some do not. This is truth. Quoted:
Not a VFG, at least not w/ out a tax stamp. A pistol w/ a VFG is an NFA item, specifically an AOW. So here it is: You can put a VFG on your pistol if its OAL is 26.5" or greater. Once said VFG has been added you no longer have a pistol but a firearm, not an AOW. If you do not have an OAL of 26.5" or greater you may only use an AFG. OAL is measured from the tip of the barrel threads to the end of the buffer tube on your weapon. Closer to correct but still WRONG, the correct length is 26" It has to be 26" or greater to add a VFG, as stated if you add the VFG it becomes a firearm and no longer a pistol, so you have to treat it as such, no concealing, your carry permit will not apply to it. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 11:56:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Oh for fucks sake there has been a sticky fucking thread in this forum for EONS which addresses this very concern!
Same jackass question, same dipshit misinformation! Fuck! 
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:18:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... as stated if you add the VFG it becomes a firearm and no longer a pistol, so you have to treat it as such, no concealing, your carry permit will not apply to it. Note that federally, concealing it on the person would also remove its exception from being an AOW. - OS |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 5:59:14 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm assuming my 11.5 with phase 5 hex 2 buffer tube will be past 26". I really envisioned it with a
Vfg |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 6:23:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm assuming my 11.5 with phase 5 hex 2 buffer tube will be past 26". I really envisioned it with a Vfg Should be a bit over 28". - OS |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 9:39:56 PM EDT
[#22]
I've been researching this same thing and here's what I've found. What others are saying about "Overall Length" seems to be true and means that if the "firearm" has a length from the tip of the barrel threads to the end of the buffer tube of 26" or greater, then you may use a vertical foregrip.
For reference, I have a pistol with a 10.5" barrel and a KAK Industries Super Sig buffer tube and it exceeds 26". Here is a link to the ATF letter Franklin Armory recieved detailing this policy and Ive highlighted the important paragraph: ATF Letter http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a568/Mike_Tauss/imagejpg1_zpsc952135b.jpg |
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Posted: 7/30/2014 6:51:42 AM EDT
[#23]
I think what confuses me is the defination of concealed because here in Alabama we had to have Concealed Carry Permit to carry a pistol in the vehicle. I'm pretty sure they modifed that law so that you could transport depending on how it was stored without permit. CCW permits dont apply because it is considered a firearm instead of a pistol with the length being 26" or longer and a vertical grip installed is what I was trying to get a better understanding of.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 6:33:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have questions about this to, the letter from the ATF I read said 26" or greater and cannot be carried concealed. My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? I put mine together mainly for a truck weapon and the laws arent as clear as they should be. In Alabama a pistol is any firearm with a barrel less than 12". To carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle you must have a concealed carry permit. If it is in the vehicle it is considered concealed even if it is laying on the dash with a big arrow pointing at it with "GUN" printed on it. If you don't have a concealed carry permit any firearm must be unloaded and stored in a manner that makes it not readily available to the driver or passengers. If you have a car with a trunk this last part is pretty easy. It's a bit more interesting if you have a pickup, SUV, or Jeep type vehicle. You cannot carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 10:56:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think what confuses me is the defination of concealed because here in Alabama we had to have Concealed Carry Permit to carry a pistol in the vehicle. I'm pretty sure they modifed that law so that you could transport depending on how it was stored without permit. CCW permits dont apply because it is considered a firearm instead of a pistol with the length being 26" or longer and a vertical grip installed is what I was trying to get a better understanding of. Similar situation in TN until recently. In vehicle, and with carry permit only, you could only have either: - a "handgun", loaded and with round in chamber - a "rifle" or "shotgun", loaded, but not with round in chamber Technically, according to statute wordings, my AR "firearm" was not covered. Solution? Make the VFG quick detach so that it's again a handgun when you transport it: 
(all this is non sequitur here now, law changed where anyone can keep any loaded "firearm" in vehicle now). - OS |
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Posted: 8/4/2014 10:40:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Alabama a pistol is any firearm with a barrel less than 12". To carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle you must have a concealed carry permit. If it is in the vehicle it is considered concealed even if it is laying on the dash with a big arrow pointing at it with "GUN" printed on it. If you don't have a concealed carry permit any firearm must be unloaded and stored in a manner that makes it not readily available to the driver or passengers. If you have a car with a trunk this last part is pretty easy. It's a bit more interesting if you have a pickup, SUV, or Jeep type vehicle. You cannot carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have questions about this to, the letter from the ATF I read said 26" or greater and cannot be carried concealed. My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? I put mine together mainly for a truck weapon and the laws arent as clear as they should be. In Alabama a pistol is any firearm with a barrel less than 12". To carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle you must have a concealed carry permit. If it is in the vehicle it is considered concealed even if it is laying on the dash with a big arrow pointing at it with "GUN" printed on it. If you don't have a concealed carry permit any firearm must be unloaded and stored in a manner that makes it not readily available to the driver or passengers. If you have a car with a trunk this last part is pretty easy. It's a bit more interesting if you have a pickup, SUV, or Jeep type vehicle. You cannot carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. Last sentence is incorrect in the great state of Alabama. Very few places you cant actually cant These are bout the the only two that come to mind , Wildlife mgmt Areas, Natchez Trace Pakway which is a federal travel corridor. |
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Posted: 8/4/2014 10:42:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Alabama a pistol is any firearm with a barrel less than 12". To carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle you must have a concealed carry permit. If it is in the vehicle it is considered concealed even if it is laying on the dash with a big arrow pointing at it with "GUN" printed on it. If you don't have a concealed carry permit any firearm must be unloaded and stored in a manner that makes it not readily available to the driver or passengers. If you have a car with a trunk this last part is pretty easy. It's a bit more interesting if you have a pickup, SUV, or Jeep type vehicle. You cannot carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have questions about this to, the letter from the ATF I read said 26" or greater and cannot be carried concealed. My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? I put mine together mainly for a truck weapon and the laws arent as clear as they should be. In Alabama a pistol is any firearm with a barrel less than 12". To carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle you must have a concealed carry permit. If it is in the vehicle it is considered concealed even if it is laying on the dash with a big arrow pointing at it with "GUN" printed on it. If you don't have a concealed carry permit any firearm must be unloaded and stored in a manner that makes it not readily available to the driver or passengers. If you have a car with a trunk this last part is pretty easy. It's a bit more interesting if you have a pickup, SUV, or Jeep type vehicle. You cannot carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. Last sentence is incorrect in the great state of Alabama. Very few places you cant actually cant These are bout the only two that come to mind , Wildlife mgmt Areas, Natchez Trace Pakway which is a federal travel corridor. |
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Posted: 8/5/2014 12:11:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Last sentence is incorrect in the great state of Alabama. Very few places you cant actually cant These are bout the only two that come to mind , Wildlife mgmt Areas, Natchez Trace Pakway which is a federal travel corridor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have questions about this to, the letter from the ATF I read said 26" or greater and cannot be carried concealed. My question is are they gonna consider this concealed if you are transporting it openly in your vechicle? I put mine together mainly for a truck weapon and the laws arent as clear as they should be. In Alabama a pistol is any firearm with a barrel less than 12". To carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle you must have a concealed carry permit. If it is in the vehicle it is considered concealed even if it is laying on the dash with a big arrow pointing at it with "GUN" printed on it. If you don't have a concealed carry permit any firearm must be unloaded and stored in a manner that makes it not readily available to the driver or passengers. If you have a car with a trunk this last part is pretty easy. It's a bit more interesting if you have a pickup, SUV, or Jeep type vehicle. You cannot carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. Last sentence is incorrect in the great state of Alabama. Very few places you cant actually cant These are bout the only two that come to mind , Wildlife mgmt Areas, Natchez Trace Pakway which is a federal travel corridor. Agreed most state laws have wording such as not easily accessible by the driver or in the rear most area of the vehicle, or area typically not designed to transport passengers. So the back of a jeep or behind the seat in a pickup should be perfectly legal. |
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