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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:11:47 AM EDT
After starting off as a"budget" build using some parts bin leftovers looking like this...
My pistol is now officially complete in it's newest incarnation... I'm done 
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:13:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Looks good, but you're never "done"...
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:19:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Nice loooking pistol. It looks like you swapped out so many parts you pretty much have enough to build another complete one...
Trust me you are never done. I built a 7.5 and Saud I was done. Now I have a 10.5 as well and am planning my 3rd in 9mm. It's a disease my friend. |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:20:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks good, but you're never "done"...  Only with this one.
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:27:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Correct me if i am wrong but your not allowed to have a VFG (verticle forward grip) on a pistol. It changes it to a SBR.
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:33:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct me if i am wrong but your not allowed to have a VFG (verticle forward grip) on a pistol. It changes it to a SBR. If the gun in question without a stock is greater than 26" it is not a rifle or a pistol(when the vert grip is attached). It now lives in the magical nonsensical random world of arbitrary ATF 'firearms' and the Vert grip is allowed at 26"+ OAL. |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:41:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct me if i am wrong but your not allowed to have a VFG (verticle forward grip) on a pistol. It changes it to a SBR. OAL from the end of the threads of this barrel (not counting the Claymore addition to length) to the back of the KAK tube is approximately 27 1/8 ". It's GTG as a "firearm".. |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:46:18 AM EDT
[#7]
What mod rail is that?
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:48:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What mod rail is that? Standard DD M4 V7 12 incher... |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:50:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice loooking pistol. It looks like you swapped out so many parts you pretty much have enough to build another complete one... Trust me you are never done. I built a 7.5 and Saud I was done. Now I have a 10.5 as well and am planning my 3rd in 9mm. It's a disease my friend. Hmmmm. I DO have a strippeed Spikes Punisher lower sitting in the safe... 
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:51:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Looks great. I like it.
ETA:Agree..after saying the same thing, I build a complete 11.5" soon after first 10.5" was done. Both using the brace. |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:52:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OAL from the end of the threads of this barrel (not counting the Claymore addition to length) to the back of the KAK tube is approximately 27 1/8 ". It's GTG as a "firearm".. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Correct me if i am wrong but your not allowed to have a VFG (verticle forward grip) on a pistol. It changes it to a SBR. OAL from the end of the threads of this barrel (not counting the Claymore addition to length) to the back of the KAK tube is approximately 27 1/8 ". It's GTG as a "firearm".. This really needs to be made into a sticky. Could a Mod start a Sticky thready titled like OFFICIAL >26" AR Type Firearm Thread and start it out with the ATF letter or something. I see at least 5 posts everyday about someone who knows nothing about AR pistols or AR type firearms post something like "You better take that VFG off that illegal SBR before the ATF will come busting down your door and arrest you" 
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:54:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This really needs to be made into a sticky. Could a Mod start a Sticky thready titled like OFFICIAL >26" AR Type Firearm Thread and start it out with the ATF letter or something. I see at least 5 posts everyday about someone who knows nothing about AR pistols or AR type firearms post something like "You better take that VFG off that illegal SBR before the ATF will come busting down your door and arrest you" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Correct me if i am wrong but your not allowed to have a VFG (verticle forward grip) on a pistol. It changes it to a SBR. OAL from the end of the threads of this barrel (not counting the Claymore addition to length) to the back of the KAK tube is approximately 27 1/8 ". It's GTG as a "firearm".. This really needs to be made into a sticky. Could a Mod start a Sticky thready titled like OFFICIAL >26" AR Type Firearm Thread and start it out with the ATF letter or something. I see at least 5 posts everyday about someone who knows nothing about AR pistols or AR type firearms post something like "You better take that VFG off that illegal SBR before the ATF will come busting down your door and arrest you" +1 |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 9:49:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Sticky link is below. Look at BATFE letter dated July 18, 2011.
Their answer to Question 2 addresses the issue of installing a vertical foregrip on an AR-type firearm similar to the Franklin Armory XO-26 having an "overall length exceeding 26 inches, and a barrel approximately 11-1/2 inches in length." As they said, "Such a firearm would not be subject to the NFA/AOW classification provided its overall length is at least 26 inches and it is not actually concealed on the person." "Finally, please check to make sure that construction of your proposed firearm does not violate any (your state) State laws or local ordinances." Question 3 address how to properly determine the overall length measurement. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/525036_Request___Scans_of_any_letters_from_the_BATFE__that_pertain_to_AR_pistols.html&page=3 |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 9:55:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sticky link is below. Look at BATFE letter dated July 18, 2011. Their answer to Question 2 addresses the issue of installing a vertical foregrip on an AR-type firearm similar to the Franklin Armory XO-26 having an "overall length exceeding 26 inches, and a barrel approximately 11-1/2 inches in length." As they said, "Such a firearm would not be subject to the NFA/AOW classification provided its overall length is at least 26 inches and it is not actually concealed on the person." "Finally, please check to make sure that construction of your proposed firearm does not violate any (your state) State laws or local ordinances." Question 3 address how to properly determine the overall length measurement. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/525036_Request___Scans_of_any_letters_from_the_BATFE__that_pertain_to_AR_pistols.html&page=3 I know there is a sticky with all the ATF letters in it. I was talking more about a specific Sticky or an OFFICIAL thread for >26" AR Type Firearms |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 10:09:41 AM EDT
[#15]
My response was more directed at 'Bearcat24', but I get your point.
BTW, there is already an Annoucement type sticky at the top here titled 'ATF Rule on Adding a Vertical Fore Grip to a Handgun'. Perhaps the mods can update it with the relevant ATF letters specifically: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/458387_ATF_Rule_on_Adding_a_Vertical_Fore_Grip_to_a_Handgun__Specifically_the_AR15_Pistol_.html |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 10:46:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Reading all the different letters is giving me a headache. When I finish my build, I will post it so someone with a law degree that can make sense of the various letters posted can tell me what the fuck I just built. There should be a sticky with ALL the letters and no comments as a reference point. (yeah, i'm a little slow).
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Posted: 7/14/2014 3:48:08 PM EDT
[#17]
You guys think it's bad here...I posted up the pics for some of my gun enthusiast friends on a Corvette Forum and you should see all discussion regarding this by the legal experts that are coming out against the whole issue of the vertical grip and shouldering the Sig Brace.
Some refuse to learn from current changes. |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 4:05:20 PM EDT
[#18]
If the money grabbing government wouldn't tag 200 bucks on a SBR, they would make more on sales tax than the chump change they make now. A rifle is a rifle. Who gives a shit if its a 10 inch barrel or 30 inches. Then of course they don't pass that info on to LLE to educate them but leave them in the dark until questioned about it. What ever happened to KISS. I read the opinion letter on shoulder shooting with the SIG brace. Am sure folks with AR pistols with just foam on the tube stick that in the shoulder pocket and shoot. Is that illegal? At least I have a range close buy that sells the sig version so I know I won't get hassled when I go shoot my new build when its completed.
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Posted: 7/14/2014 6:29:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read the opinion letter on shoulder shooting with the SIG brace. Am sure folks with AR pistols with just foam on the tube stick that in the shoulder pocket and shoot. Is that illegal? I think yes. There must be same rule for Sig brace as for generic foam brace serving the same function. They can't simply endorse the Sig brace only. At least that's how my lawyer should argue the case.
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Posted: 7/14/2014 8:25:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Sexy sexy
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Posted: 7/14/2014 9:15:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct me if i am wrong but your not allowed to have a VFG (verticle forward grip) on a pistol. It changes it to a SBR. Also, just to correct both your suppositions  :
Illegal use of a VFG would make it an AOW, not SBR. Nice heater Don! - OS |
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Posted: 7/14/2014 9:17:11 PM EDT
[#22]
oops, double tap, meant to edit above post.
So I'll just add pic of my own "not an AOW" to keep post from being a total waste:
- OS |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 3:52:32 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
oops, double tap, meant to edit above post. So I'll just add pic of my own "not an AOW" to keep post from being a total waste:
http://routedriver.home.comcast.net/pub/ARpistol-final.jpg - OS Now this is sweet. Spec's and cost to build? |
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Posted: 7/15/2014 12:43:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now this is sweet. Spec's and cost to build? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
oops, double tap, meant to edit above post. So I'll just add pic of my own "not an AOW" to keep post from being a total waste:
http://routedriver.home.comcast.net/pub/ARpistol-final.jpg - OS Now this is sweet. Spec's and cost to build? Thanks. Well, it "evolved", started as this, shortly before Sandy Hook: 
Had 'bout $650 or a bit less it at the time, if you count the lower as part of it. (was actually using one lower in a "kit" with 2 other rifle uppers). J&T complete upper, the PSA blem lower, BCM BCG, inexpensive buffer tube assembly, Magpul rear sight. Then you can see the rest of the changes over time once I dedicated a lower to just the pistol: Magpul handguard, QD mounted Magpul VFG, KAK tube, SB15, Vortex StrikeFire. Oh, and the lower became a billet CMT Tactical that got a deal on by a group buy through my "home" forum, tngunowners.com (that's TGO logo on the side). So really, with all that, building exact same thing from scratch, maybe 9 bills I guess. - OS |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 7:38:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My response was more directed at 'Bearcat24', but I get your point. BTW, there is already an Annoucement type sticky at the top here titled 'ATF Rule on Adding a Vertical Fore Grip to a Handgun'. Perhaps the mods can update it with the relevant ATF letters specifically: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/458387_ATF_Rule_on_Adding_a_Vertical_Fore_Grip_to_a_Handgun__Specifically_the_AR15_Pistol_.html That letter clearly states adding a VFG to handgun makes it an AOW. There is no mention of OAL. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 7:44:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That letter clearly states adding a VFG to handgun makes it an AOW. There is no mention of OAL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My response was more directed at 'Bearcat24', but I get your point. BTW, there is already an Annoucement type sticky at the top here titled 'ATF Rule on Adding a Vertical Fore Grip to a Handgun'. Perhaps the mods can update it with the relevant ATF letters specifically: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/458387_ATF_Rule_on_Adding_a_Vertical_Fore_Grip_to_a_Handgun__Specifically_the_AR15_Pistol_.html That letter clearly states adding a VFG to handgun makes it an AOW. There is no mention of OAL. That letter is correct assuming the OAL is <26". The letter which OK's the VFG on an AR pistol with an OAL >26" is the Franklin Armory XO-26 Letter found here. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:14:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Nice pistol! Looks like it was built by a pro!
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:38:09 AM EDT
[#28]
VFG ON A PISTOL?!?!?
I'd redact my posts & review federal firearms law Right Frakking Now if I were y'all. Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. Just sayin'... |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:54:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VFG ON A PISTOL?!?!? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/parapyropig/00000000-0000-0000-0000-0000000005BF_zpsr25vv7ha.jpg I'd redact my posts & review federal firearms law Right Frakking Now if I were y'all. Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. Just sayin'... You'll redact your own post once you read the law. Over 26" OAL VFG is gtg as it is no longer a "pistol". Just sayin... Heres a link to another thread that will help you better understand what I am referring to... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/651727_26__OAL_VFG_Firearm_Picture_and_Info_Thread.html |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:57:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll redact your own post once you read the law. Over 26" OAL VFG is gtg. Just sayin... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
VFG ON A PISTOL?!?!? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/parapyropig/00000000-0000-0000-0000-0000000005BF_zpsr25vv7ha.jpg I'd redact my posts & review federal firearms law Right Frakking Now if I were y'all. Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. Just sayin'... You'll redact your own post once you read the law. Over 26" OAL VFG is gtg. Just sayin... Here we go again...I literally just posted a link to the ATF letter stating it is completely legal to mount a VFG to an AR pistol with an OAL >26" three posts up from you can we please stop with this bullshit |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:59:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. OUCH 
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Posted: 7/16/2014 11:42:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OUCH Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. OUCH Maybe he is interested in it?
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Posted: 7/16/2014 4:31:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe he is interested in it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. OUCH Maybe he is interested in it? Don't be telling ALL my secrets...
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Posted: 7/16/2014 6:16:59 PM EDT
[#34]
http://www.drugstore.com/k-y-jelly-personal-lubricant/qxp12679
Bring allot with you |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 6:50:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VFG ON A PISTOL?!?!? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/parapyropig/00000000-0000-0000-0000-0000000005BF_zpsr25vv7ha.jpg I'd redact my posts & review federal firearms law Right Frakking Now if I were y'all. Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. Just sayin'... Quote HistoryQuoted:
VFG ON A PISTOL?!?!? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/parapyropig/00000000-0000-0000-0000-0000000005BF_zpsr25vv7ha.jpg I'd redact my posts & review federal firearms law Right Frakking Now if I were y'all. Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. Just sayin'... There's always one. Always. At least one. Read the motherfucking thread, Bubba! Read ALL the other threads where this is addressed! I've requested several times for mods to sticky something about this infinite stream of continual bullshit. 
There is a fucking sticky! Not that morons will read it though. 
Quoted:
http://www.drugstore.com/k-y-jelly-personal-lubricant/qxp12679 Bring allot with you For fucks sake, you too.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 6:54:34 PM EDT
[#36]
JFHC the AR pistol forum has become a wretched hive of dipshits and their douchebaggery, it's worse than a fucking gun store.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:44:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't be telling ALL my secrets... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. OUCH Maybe he is interested in it? Don't be telling ALL my secrets... 
Surprise! |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:37:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That letter clearly states adding a VFG to handgun makes it an AOW. There is no mention of OAL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My response was more directed at 'Bearcat24', but I get your point. BTW, there is already an Annoucement type sticky at the top here titled 'ATF Rule on Adding a Vertical Fore Grip to a Handgun'. Perhaps the mods can update it with the relevant ATF letters specifically: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/458387_ATF_Rule_on_Adding_a_Vertical_Fore_Grip_to_a_Handgun__Specifically_the_AR15_Pistol_.html That letter clearly states adding a VFG to handgun makes it an AOW. There is no mention of OAL. let me help you out friend. An AR15 w/o a butstock that is >26" IS NOT A PISTOL TO BEGIN WITH! It is a "firearm" to begin with. As a firearm, not a pistol or rifle but a firearm, there is no restriction on having a VFG on it. It is NOT a pistol, it does NOT become a AOW. It is a "firearm" before and after VFG install. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:39:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
JFHC the AR pistol forum has become a wretched hive of dipshits and their douchebaggery, it's worse than a fucking gun store. everyother guy is a former socom spaceshuttle door gunner/lawyer recommending 380 special revolvers and talking about how you have to pay $200/yr/NFA item and submit to annual home inspections lol. |
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:40:13 PM EDT
[#40]
OP, I hope you didnt' buy that Troy brake new.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:46:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
everyother guy is a former socom spaceshuttle door gunner/lawyer recommending 380 special revolvers and talking about how you have to pay $200/yr/NFA item and submit to annual home inspections lol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
JFHC the AR pistol forum has become a wretched hive of dipshits and their douchebaggery, it's worse than a fucking gun store. everyother guy is a former socom spaceshuttle door gunner/lawyer recommending 380 special revolvers and talking about how you have to pay $200/yr/NFA item and submit to annual home inspections lol. Just with the "Don't ya know that's illegal, boi?" shit. It's like a Fudd gunshop whose employees ask "Whatcha want one o' DEM for?" |
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Posted: 7/17/2014 4:36:03 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's always one. Always. At least one. Read the motherfucking thread, Bubba! Read ALL the other threads where this is addressed! I've requested several times for mods to sticky something about this infinite stream of continual bullshit.
There is a fucking sticky! Not that morons will read it though.
For fucks sake, you too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
VFG ON A PISTOL?!?!? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v346/parapyropig/00000000-0000-0000-0000-0000000005BF_zpsr25vv7ha.jpg I'd redact my posts & review federal firearms law Right Frakking Now if I were y'all. Especially if you are not interested in surprise buttsex in federal prison. Just sayin'... There's always one. Always. At least one. Read the motherfucking thread, Bubba! Read ALL the other threads where this is addressed! I've requested several times for mods to sticky something about this infinite stream of continual bullshit.
There is a fucking sticky! Not that morons will read it though.
Quoted:
http://www.drugstore.com/k-y-jelly-personal-lubricant/qxp12679 Bring allot with you For fucks sake, you too. Its called HUMOR duschbag! 
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Posted: 7/18/2014 6:21:15 AM EDT
[#43]
You're right. I'm wrong. Peaceout.
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Posted: 7/18/2014 7:13:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... let me help you out friend. An AR15 w/o a butstock that is >26" IS NOT A PISTOL TO BEGIN WITH! It is a "firearm" to begin with. As a firearm, not a pistol or rifle but a firearm, there is no restriction on having a VFG on it. It is NOT a pistol, it does NOT become a AOW. It is a "firearm" before and after VFG install. Brother, you're almost as wrong as he is. The federal definition of "handgun" or "pistol" has not changed. There is no overall length restriction on a pistol. It's a pistol at any length. It only becomes a firearm with addition of the VFG. And magically transforms back into a pistol when the VFG is removed. Again, the definition of handgun/pistol has not changed. The VFG/26" ruling is merely a narrow exception to AOW classification. - OS |
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Posted: 7/19/2014 6:27:43 AM EDT
[#45]
-deleted by author-
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:43:07 AM EDT
[#46]
to the OP, what are the specs of all the goodies you built that with?
Interesting, I like it.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:34:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Thanks. Here's the parts list...
DPMS 10 1/2" 1/9 chrome moly barrel (spare parts bin) Troy Claymore linear comp Full auto BCG (spare parts bin) Mod 4 BCM Gunfighter charging handle PSA upper Spikes Spider Lower Geiselle G2S trigger KNS pins BCM low pro gas block DPMS carbine gas tube DD V7 mod rail KAK buffer tube Spikes T2 heavy buffer Noveske QD plate Sig SB-15 brace Magpull MOE+ grip and RVG Diamonhead ISS diamond flip sights Magpul MS4 sling Vortex 1X Prism Spitfire I think that about covers it. |
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