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Posted: 9/1/2014 3:03:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it's probably a redundant (x1000) question, but if the pistol is under 26" and it has the magpul afg it is NOT an NFA item. Correct? Correct. That's one of the reasons they are so popular. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 4:03:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+3. p.s. Add the vertical grip at the very end of the build if you're thinking about using one. That way, you can always take it off later and the weapon is now a "pistol" again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: A pistol's OAL is NOT defined in federal law. Nor is there a federal Title 1 gun category called "weapon".
IF a pistol OAL is over 26", AND you add a VFG to it, and you DO NOT conceal it, it is no longer a pistol, but a "firearm". Still a Title 1 gun. If a pistol OAL is under 26", AND you add a VFG to it, it becomes an AOW - and you better have the tax stamp before you install the VFG. Now a Title 2 gun. If a pistol OAL is over 26", AND you add a VFG, AND you conceal it on or about your person, it becomes an AOW - and you better have the tax stamp before you conceal it. Now a Title 2 gun. +3. p.s. Add the vertical grip at the very end of the build if you're thinking about using one. That way, you can always take it off later and the weapon is now a "pistol" again. Same principle with rifle stocks. Deflower the virgin receiver as a pistol, and federally it will always return to being a pistol. |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 4:35:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not again. A pistol's OAL is NOT defined in federal law. Nor is there a federal Title 1 gun category called "weapon". IF a pistol OAL is over 26", AND you add a VFG to it, and you DO NOT conceal it, it is no longer a pistol, but a "firearm". Still a Title 1 gun. If a pistol OAL is under 26", AND you add a VFG to it, it becomes an AOW - and you better have the tax stamp before you install the VFG. Now a Title 2 gun. If a pistol OAL is over 26", AND you add a VFG, AND you conceal it on or about your person, it becomes an AOW - and you better have the tax stamp before you conceal it. Now a Title 2 gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: if it's under 26 inches. Over 26 and it's a weapon. Weapons aren't governed by the same rules as rifles or pistols. IE you can put a front vertical foregrip on a weapon but not a pistol. Not again. A pistol's OAL is NOT defined in federal law. Nor is there a federal Title 1 gun category called "weapon". IF a pistol OAL is over 26", AND you add a VFG to it, and you DO NOT conceal it, it is no longer a pistol, but a "firearm". Still a Title 1 gun. If a pistol OAL is under 26", AND you add a VFG to it, it becomes an AOW - and you better have the tax stamp before you install the VFG. Now a Title 2 gun. If a pistol OAL is over 26", AND you add a VFG, AND you conceal it on or about your person, it becomes an AOW - and you better have the tax stamp before you conceal it. Now a Title 2 gun. There is a gentlemen who shoots at the range I do who has a semiauto M2 with spade grips, thing must weigh 125 lbs. By backbenchers reasoning it's a pistol, so is the 45-70 cannon dad built. Maybe I need to remind all the learned persons on this board that laws hardly ever say what's legal, only what's illegal. The reason the NFA mentions rifle, pistol,shotgun etc isn't to classify all weapons into four categories. It's to explain items covered under the statute. A SBR Is a weapon/firearm made from a rifle, now we need to define rifle. SBS, shotgun. AOW isn't any other weapon, it's "any other weapon requiring registration under the NFA". Pistols are only mentioned because adding a second vertical grip is illegal under the NFA. edit also NFA illegal are smoothbore pistols. so two things |
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Posted: 9/1/2014 10:41:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ]there must be a federal definition of weapon as it's use in the 1929 national firearms act as a portion of one of the four classifications. Any other weapon.
There is a gentlemen who shoots at the range I do who has a semiauto M2 with spade grips, thing must weigh 125 lbs. By backbenchers reasoning it's a pistol, so is the 45-70 cannon dad built. Maybe I need to remind all the learned persons on this board that laws hardly ever say what's legal, only what's illegal. The reason the NFA mentions rifle, pistol,shotgun etc isn't to classify all weapons into four categories. It's to explain items covered under the statute. A SBR Is a weapon/firearm made from a rifle, now we need to define rifle. SBS, shotgun. AOW isn't any other weapon, it's "any other weapon requiring registration under the NFA". Pistols are only mentioned because adding a second vertical grip is illegal under the NFA. edit also NFA illegal are smoothbore pistols. so two things williewvr, go read up on the 1934 National Firearms Act, and get back to us. There isn't a 1929 nfa. Your friend's semi-auto M2 is a Title 1 "firearm", as it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder, nor to be fired with one hand. Your dad's 45"-70 may well be a pistol. And there's 10 categories - 5 in Title 1, 5 in Title 2. other, pistol, rifle, shotgun, firearm; AOW, SBS, SBR, machinegun, DD. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 2:52:51 AM EDT
[#5]
This.AGAIN.
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Posted: 9/2/2014 2:55:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This.AGAIN. It will always come up until we overturn or gut the NFA. It's confusing as hell, and state laws that are even worse don't help. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 1:38:19 PM EDT
[#7]
 Ballistic Advantage 10.5" 1:7 Melonited barrel+gas block+gas tube Smith Vortex FH Centurion C4 10" rail Primary Arms MD06 with PA mount 762 industries bcg BCM Mod 3 grip BCM Mod 4 charging handle Sig brace
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Posted: 9/2/2014 1:53:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Just finished, I'll update with specs later. |
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Posted: 9/2/2014 2:27:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will always come up until we overturn or gut the NFA. It's confusing as hell, and state laws that are even worse don't help. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: This.AGAIN. It will always come up until we overturn or gut the NFA. It's confusing as hell, and state laws that are even worse don't help. Agreed. Less legal talk, more photos! 
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Posted: 9/6/2014 4:14:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Spikes Upper
Spikes Lower Noveske 8.5" 300blk Barrel SpecWar 7.62 Can Seekins 12" MCSR V2 Keymod Noveske Panel Sections Magpul PROs Umbrelle Corp Grip KAK Super Tube 
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Posted: 9/24/2014 7:35:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your friend's semi-auto M2 is a Title 1 "firearm", as it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder, nor to be fired with one hand. Pics... A 556 firearm..  A 300AAC firearm...  *sorry, pics ain't working right for me.. * |
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Posted: 9/26/2014 4:08:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Damn....Murica as all hell! Get some more pics of that bad boy! I need a new desktop background.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:04:33 PM EDT
[#13]
OK here is mine.
7.5 inch barrel, KAK muzzle devise Primary Arms sight and Magpul backups, angled foregrip, and the K2 pistol grip. I made the buffer tube, and finished the 80% lower. 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/rifleshooter2/IMG_20141003_123924_193_zpswdpzc600.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/rifleshooter2/IMG_20141003_123906_984_zpsqlabob5j.jpg |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 2:45:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK here is mine.
7.5 inch barrel, KAK muzzle devise Primary Arms sight and Magpul backups, angled foregrip, and the K2 pistol grip. I made the buffer tube, and finished the 80% lower. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rifleshooter2/media/IMG_20141003_123924_193_zpswdpzc600.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/rifleshooter2/IMG_20141003_123924_193_zpswdpzc600.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rifleshooter2/media/IMG_20141003_123906_984_zpsqlabob5j.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/rifleshooter2/IMG_20141003_123906_984_zpsqlabob5j.jpg</a> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/rifleshooter2/IMG_20141003_123924_193_zpswdpzc600.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/rifleshooter2/IMG_20141003_123906_984_zpsqlabob5j.jpg Nice gat - and you ARE the consummate lurker! You may indeed win the lowest post count per year award! We are indeed honored that you post in this thread. |
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Posted: 10/3/2014 3:21:43 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm a man of few words. But I read a lot.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:37:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Built this one up a few days ago. Waiting on my Form 1 and Form 4 to arrive. Got to "test fit" the can on Friday at the LGS which is holding it for me. Moved the light to the other side and put on a new pistol grip after test fitting the suppressor. Can't wait until I get to bring my can home.
Horrible cell phone pics so I apologize. 8.5" Rainier Arms 300BLK barrel 7" Fortis Rev rail CMT billet upper and lower KAK buffer kit with Sig brace Eotech EXPS2 Diamondhead back up sights with the tritium inlays Elzetta Alpha light with 5" tape switch Magpul MOE Plus grip Odin extended mag release button "red" Fortis Hammer charging handle AAC Brakeout 2.0 muzzle device 
*ETA= My pics don't appear to be showing up. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:14:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Looks nice!
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:08:25 PM EDT
[#18]
So i added the HEX2 tube on my AR pistol to stop the sig brace from sliding forward. well i noticed that it was slipping up and over the lips on the HEX2 and still moving forward. has anyone else dealt with their brace moving forward? how did you stop it? i thought about taking it all the way off and adding some spray adhesive on the tube and then sliding the brace back on and letting it dry.
HEX2 tube btw 
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:30:46 PM EDT
[#19]
That is why I prefer this one.......it hasn't moved forward past the shoulder at all.
Just my $0.02 Click Here P.S. ......and there is still a full length of tube supporting the entire rear of the SIG brace. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 7:10:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I finally picked up a Sig brace recently. What are my options if I want the brace to stick out farther? I see that the KAK buffer tube gives you an extra 1.5" of length. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 11:13:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Phase 5 , hex2c Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I finally picked up a Sig brace recently. What are my options if I want the brace to stick out farther? I see that the KAK buffer tube gives you an extra 1.5" of length. KAK also has spacer kits to go with the buffer kits they sell on their web site. I bought them but ended up using the smaller one. If you look at my pics above you can see it. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 1:11:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My version of KISS http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac345/stinkieloadie/DSC00155_zps0e6d74a2.jpg?t=1408711132 Which hand guard is this if you don't mind me asking? |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 1:19:30 AM EDT
[#23]
ST gen2 billet set( NIBX coated by WMD )
ST 11.5 chf lw ST barking spider ST spider grip ST nib bcg Rainier raptor ch V7 ejection door CMC flat bow 4.5lb trigger Rainier force 12ln rail KAK pistol buffer tube with spacers Sig brace Northtech ti forward assist BAD 45 stainless safety  " />
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Posted: 10/9/2014 3:56:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I finally picked up a Sig brace recently. What are my options if I want the brace to stick out farther? I see that the KAK buffer tube gives you an extra 1.5" of length. https://phase5wsi.com/hex-2-pistol-buffer-tube-hex-2-clone.html |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 4:20:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what do you guys suggest going with: KAK super tube w/ spacers, Phase5 Hex2, or MI new pistol tube? Don't want to buy once cry once. Thanks in advance. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 4:54:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hex2c worked great for me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what do you guys suggest going with: KAK super tube w/ spacers, Phase5 Hex2, or MI new pistol tube? Don't want to buy once cry once. Thanks in advance. I currently have the KAK super tube with one spacer now. Fits great. I will be building another pistol and might try the Hex2 on that one. Hope to have a report back on a comparison of the two within a couple weeks. But if you're like me that will be too long and you will have already made your decision. 
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Posted: 10/11/2014 9:15:35 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 10/11/2014 10:49:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
KAK also has spacer kits to go with the buffer kits they sell on their web site. I bought them but ended up using the smaller one. If you look at my pics above you can see it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I finally picked up a Sig brace recently. What are my options if I want the brace to stick out farther? I see that the KAK buffer tube gives you an extra 1.5" of length. KAK also has spacer kits to go with the buffer kits they sell on their web site. I bought them but ended up using the smaller one. If you look at my pics above you can see it. Would you be able to measure the ID of the spacer? I have a Damage Industries pistol buffer with 1.190" OD and wanted to see if I could get the KAK spacer kit to work with my tube. |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 4:55:40 AM EDT
[#29]
finally finished mine up for now (they are never "really" finished, are they?)
PSA lower w/ Magpul grip Hardened Arms 10.5" 1/7 melonited upper KAK pistol tube Sig brace Magpul flip up BUIS Vortex SPARC II KAC rail covers Magpul RVG Magpul QD rail sling mount homemade rear QD sling mount Sig Sauer QD sling 
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Posted: 10/12/2014 9:53:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryVery nice. What color are your pistol grip and mag? Thanks |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 11:04:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very nice. What color are your pistol grip and mag? Thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very nice. What color are your pistol grip and mag? Thanks Thanks, the grip and mag are Foliage Green. The cerakote is Magpul foliage green as well. |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 10:03:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would you be able to measure the ID of the spacer? I have a Damage Industries pistol buffer with 1.190" OD and wanted to see if I could get the KAK spacer kit to work with my tube. KAK spacers are 1.1875" inner diameter |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 2:03:31 AM EDT
[#33]
Fuck it. I am starting a build.
I ordered this today: 7.5" Aero Precision Upper Aero Precision BCG KAK Buffer tube kit Sig Brace I will pick this up in the next two months: Aero Lower LPK Geiselle trigger of some sort, prob SSA-E Law Tactical folding mechanism Magpul K grip Some sort of BUIS Optic of some sort. RMR, T1, 1.5 Acog. Who knows. 
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Posted: 10/13/2014 8:45:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck it. I am starting a build. I ordered this today: 7.5" Aero Precision Upper Aero Precision BCG KAK Buffer tube kit Sig Brace I will pick this up in the next two months: Aero Lower LPK Geiselle trigger of some sort, prob SSA-E Law Tactical folding mechanism Magpul K grip Some sort of BUIS Optic of some sort. RMR, T1, 1.5 Acog. Who knows. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 8:47:03 AM EDT
[#35]
Ok thanks. I am just trying to keep this thing tiny. I usually run Larue grips or Magpul Moe + rubber grips.
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Posted: 10/13/2014 9:28:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok thanks. I am just trying to keep this thing tiny. I usually run Larue grips or Magpul Moe + rubber grips. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:20:44 AM EDT
[#37]
Primary purpose: home defense 
Secondary purpose: field use. SB-15 GG&G Universal Sling Loop (rear) Midwest Industries TS sling loop (front) Looped receiver plate KAK buffer tube Billet lower G.I. 20-round mag Magpul K2 Grip KNS non-rotate pin set ALG Combat Trigger Forged flat top upper VLTOR charging handle Palmetto State Armory flip-up rear sight Yankee Hill Diamond handguard Ergo rail covers Magpul AFG2 10.5” heavy barrel, .223 Wylde chamber Yankee Hill FSB, H&K flip-up front sight Smith Vortex FH Streamlight TLR-4 light/laser Home-brew 2-point sling, mash hooks Eotech 512 I tried originally posting here but newbie-goofed and it ended up in the general "AR Pistols" section. My main post is called "For your consideration: An AR-based Personal Defense Weapon (PDW)". Yep, I probably shoulda called it "The Poor Man's Tavor" instead. The two are very close in size and weight. Called it a PDW because I've been experimenting with duplicating the ballistics of PDW loads like the 5.7 x 28 in .556 for home defense. See that thread for my reasoning and progress so far. I've heard from one person who's going to experiment with reduced .300 AAC loads for house gun use. Anyone else here fiddled with .556 reduced loads? See that post for more pix, including addition of a sling loop to the SB15. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 11:27:05 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/numero_6/000_Full_LHS_no_sling_zps9a73aa06.jpg Primary purpose: home defense http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c195/numero_6/017_Field_setup_zps95451eae.jpg Secondary purpose: field use. SB-15 GG&G Universal Sling Loop (rear) Midwest Industries TS sling loop (front) Looped receiver plate KAK buffer tube Billet lower G.I. 20-round mag Magpul K2 Grip KNS non-rotate pin set ALG Combat Trigger Forged flat top upper VLTOR charging handle Palmetto State Armory flip-up rear sight Yankee Hill Diamond handguard Ergo rail covers Magpul AFG2 10.5” heavy barrel, .223 Wylde chamber Yankee Hill FSB, H&K flip-up front sight Smith Vortex FH Streamlight TLR-4 light/laser Home-brew 2-point sling, mash hooks Eotech 512 I tried originally posting here but newbie-goofed and it ended up in the general "AR Pistols" section. My main post is called "For your consideration: An AR-based Personal Defense Weapon (PDW)". Yep, I probably shoulda called it "The Poor Man's Tavor" instead. The two are very close in size and weight. Called it a PDW because I've been experimenting with duplicating the ballistics of PDW loads like the 5.7 x 28 in .556 for home defense. See that thread for my reasoning and progress so far. I've heard from one person who's going to experiment with reduced .300 AAC loads for house gun use. Anyone else here fiddled with .556 reduced loads? See that post for more pix, including addition of a sling loop to the SB15. Here you go.
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Posted: 10/13/2014 1:10:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryI like that! What are the specs? barrel length? handguard? |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like that! What are the specs? barrel length? handguard? Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like that! What are the specs? barrel length? handguard? I'm pleased how it turned out. I was skeptical about the brace at first. My ultimate plan was to turn it into an SBR eventually. However, now since I have it together the brace is growing on me. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, who knows maybe I won't go through the hassle and just keep the sig brace. Receivers and rail are cerakoted Magpul foliage, small parts Armor black. Range Tool upper and lower SLR 9" Solo lite keymod Aero Precision 7.5" 5.56 barrel KAK slimline flash can KAK super tube Rainier nib bcg Spikes nib battle trigger SLR Renegade charging handle BAD ambi safety Fortis qd end plate Magpul K2 grip Sig brace 
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Posted: 10/13/2014 2:46:45 PM EDT
[#41]
sorry Iphone pic
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Posted: 10/15/2014 3:36:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
KAK spacers are 1.1875" inner diameter Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Would you be able to measure the ID of the spacer? I have a Damage Industries pistol buffer with 1.190" OD and wanted to see if I could get the KAK spacer kit to work with my tube. KAK spacers are 1.1875" inner diameter This is correct. Sorry I missed your request for info buddy. I didn't see it. I measured mine out close to this as well with my "old" eyes. My micrometer batteries are dead. However, you may want to contact KAK directly and make sure everything will work in your favor. 
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Posted: 10/17/2014 10:31:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Almost done with my 8.5" 300 BLK pistol build. Just need the front sight and I'm off to the range! THE GOODS -------------- 8.5" CMMG IN 300 BLK w/ MAS Defense Nitride Pistol length Gas Tube & Steel Lo-Pro Gas Block Noveske KX3 Vltor CASV-M w/ Magpul AFG Vltor CAS-FS (front) & Troy (rear) Vltor MUR 1A WMD NIB BCG SPIKES lower w/ WOA LPK & ALG ACT Troy Trigger Guard Odin Works XmR ERGO Dlx Tactical Grip MAS Defense pistol tube & Sig SB-15  |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 11:09:08 PM EDT
[#44]
picked up my brace today.
 300 Blackout 10.5" MAS barrel MAS flash hider 12" free float tube PSA fluted buffer tube Sig SBX 28" overall Burris fastfire3 until I pick up an optic Cant wait until my ammo shows up in a few days |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 5:55:42 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 10/25/2014 6:05:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Plain Jane,
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Posted: 10/25/2014 9:39:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 10/25/2014 10:28:21 PM EDT
[#48]
If I may ask.... where are you guys getting those camo straps? I've looked but no luck.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 12:12:08 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I may ask.... where are you guys getting those camo straps? I've looked but no luck. Phase 5 makes them. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 11:02:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Phase 5 makes them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I may ask.... where are you guys getting those camo straps? I've looked but no luck. Phase 5 makes them. Thanks. And I forgot.. very nice build. I like it. |
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