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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:50:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Can you contact the FFL who did the transfer?
They should have been "others". |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 3:57:53 AM EDT
[#2]
They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:38:20 AM EDT
[#3]
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:22:45 AM EDT
[#4]
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Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. That would not change the legal status of the firearm however. - OS |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:26:59 AM EDT
[#5]
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Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. They were purchased as stripped lowers new...by definition they have never made it to rifle status as they were not built up into rifles. Build your pistol. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:40:08 PM EDT
[#6]
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That would not change the legal status of the firearm however. - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. That would not change the legal status of the firearm however. - OS However unlikely, if they were incorrectly logged as rifles, they're rifles...ask the BATFE to clarify that for you if need be. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:28:13 PM EDT
[#7]
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I have two stripped lowers which I purchased as stripped lowers. They have never been assembled before as rifles, but I do NOT know if the receivers where marked as rifles or other when I did the transfer. I would like to build one of the receivers as a pistol. What do you guys think? Sorry to even ask this, but after some searching I am still not sure what is correct. Go to shop and ask or call, email. Pint the response, CYA and all that. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:41:03 PM EDT
[#8]
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However unlikely, if they were incorrectly logged as rifles, they're rifles...ask the BATFE to clarify that for you if need be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. That would not change the legal status of the firearm however. - OS However unlikely, if they were incorrectly logged as rifles, they're rifles...ask the BATFE to clarify that for you if need be. Oh, I see, so if an FFL puts that your Ruger .357 revolver is "long gun" and "rifle" on the 4473, that makes it a legal rifle, eh? So you could then put a stock on it too I suppose. Or if he transfers you a complete AR rifle as "other firearm" you can make a pistol out of it? How about he writes "rifle" for your Remmie 870, I guess you can cut it down to 16" instead of 18" because it's legally not really a shotgun. Right. Hell, he can even correctly transfer you a used lower as "other firearm", but that doesn't mean you can legally make a pistol out of it. Etc. What an FFL puts on a 4473 might cock an eyebrow during an investigation, but in fact does not at all conclusively determine the legal classification of the firearm or what you can legally do with it after the fact. A mistake on his part does not make something other than it really is, and provable by combination of manufacturer/distributor record of config, interplay of fields 18 and 29 of the 4473, his bound book, your receipt, his accounting ledger, whatever. Patently absurd claim. - OS |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:49:38 PM EDT
[#9]
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However unlikely, if they were incorrectly logged as rifles, they're rifles...ask the BATFE to clarify that for you if need be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. That would not change the legal status of the firearm however. - OS However unlikely, if they were incorrectly logged as rifles, they're rifles...ask the BATFE to clarify that for you if need be. No, you can easily prove they were purchased from the company you bought them from as stripped lowers, not rifles. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:00:10 PM EDT
[#10]
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No, you can easily prove they were purchased from the company you bought them from as stripped lowers, not rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. That would not change the legal status of the firearm however. - OS However unlikely, if they were incorrectly logged as rifles, they're rifles...ask the BATFE to clarify that for you if need be. No, you can easily prove they were purchased from the company you bought them from as stripped lowers, not rifles. Which is what I'm saying: if you want to play it safe/sure, verify with the manufacturer of the FFL. If you don't want to play it safe, go for it...it's your ass. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:22:49 PM EDT
[#11]
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They were purchased as stripped lowers new...by definition they have never made it to rifle status as they were not built up into rifles. Build your pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. They were purchased as stripped lowers new...by definition they have never made it to rifle status as they were not built up into rifles. Build your pistol. Negative. This depends on your state laws. Check with you ffl |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:20:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Negative. This depends on your state laws. Check with you ffl How the FFL logs the lower receiver in his bound book does not depend on state laws, it depends on Federal regulations. So unless OP bought his lowers years ago, it was logged as "other". Federally, OP can build his pistol. OP does not state his state of residence, so we don't know if he's in a People's Republic or not. If there is no pistol registration or regulation in his state, OP can build his pistol. OP, as long as they were NIB lowers and you live in a free state, you're GTG. You can take an extra step of CYA & write to the lower manufacturer, and get a certificate of virginity. If the lowers were not NIB, then you could have an issue - did the original purchaser build a rifle of them, tear down the rifle, & then sell the lower to your FFL? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 9:05:26 PM EDT
[#13]
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.... If the lowers were not NIB, then you could have an issue - did the original purchaser build a rifle of them, tear down the rifle, & then sell the lower to your FFL? Well, without any other info, one assumes OP bought them as NIB online or the FFL sold them as such, as he states they were never built as rifles. But yeah, of course, if buying directly from an FFL one should verify that at least he claims that, and of course even better via the receipt. I doubt seriously if you'd be proven culpable or even charged if there was reason to believe that the FFL fudged about the history of the firearm you thought you were buying as virgin. - OS |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:35:52 PM EDT
[#14]
I bought the stripped lowers new. I have one RRA and one Stag Arms.
I bought them when I lived in CO. I now live in TN. I doubt I could get any information from the shop who did the transfer. I will call the manufacturers and see if they can look up the serial number and verify they left their business as stripped. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:30:59 PM EDT
[#15]
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..... I will call the manufacturers and see if they can look up the serial number and verify they left their business as stripped. They can, but even money as to whether they will. So, you bought them directly from the gun store, not the online vendor? - OS |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:04:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Stag will send you a certificate of virginity for a fee. If they're NIB - no scratches - then you're good. No one's paying the excise tax and then tearing down rifles to then part them out.
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Posted: 4/21/2014 4:24:21 PM EDT
[#17]
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They can, but even money as to whether they will. So, you bought them directly from the gun store, not the online vendor? - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
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..... I will call the manufacturers and see if they can look up the serial number and verify they left their business as stripped. They can, but even money as to whether they will. So, you bought them directly from the gun store, not the online vendor? - OS I bought them online, but from a retail vendor. It's been a few years so I don't remember, but they weren't from a private party or something like that. I'll let you guys know what the manufactures say. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 5:54:52 PM EDT
[#18]
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I bought them online, but from a retail vendor. It's been a few years so I don't remember, but they weren't from a private party or something like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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..... I will call the manufacturers and see if they can look up the serial number and verify they left their business as stripped. They can, but even money as to whether they will. So, you bought them directly from the gun store, not the online vendor? - OS I bought them online, but from a retail vendor. It's been a few years so I don't remember, but they weren't from a private party or something like that. Then I for one wouldn't worry about them at all, assuming they purported them to be new . - OS |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 6:56:49 AM EDT
[#19]
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Negative. This depends on your state laws. Check with you ffl Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They were purchased NEW, stripped? If yes build whatever you want. Unless they were incorrectly logged as "rifles" at the transfer. They were purchased as stripped lowers new...by definition they have never made it to rifle status as they were not built up into rifles. Build your pistol. Negative. This depends on your state laws. Check with you ffl This is important, before the "other" designation was used, it had to be one or the other, with a different waiting period for each. State law can play a part here; here in IL you can now have an SBR if you have a C&R, but not on a trust as a trust cannot have a C&R. The ATF will bounce the trust form because of state law. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 6:59:46 AM EDT
[#20]
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I bought them online, but from a retail vendor. It's been a few years so I don't remember, but they weren't from a private party or something like that. I'll let you guys know what the manufactures say. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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..... I will call the manufacturers and see if they can look up the serial number and verify they left their business as stripped. They can, but even money as to whether they will. So, you bought them directly from the gun store, not the online vendor? - OS I bought them online, but from a retail vendor. It's been a few years so I don't remember, but they weren't from a private party or something like that. I'll let you guys know what the manufactures say. How long ago did you buy them ? 2008,2010, etc. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 8:27:55 AM EDT
[#21]
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How long ago did you buy them ? 2008,2010, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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..... I will call the manufacturers and see if they can look up the serial number and verify they left their business as stripped. They can, but even money as to whether they will. So, you bought them directly from the gun store, not the online vendor? - OS I bought them online, but from a retail vendor. It's been a few years so I don't remember, but they weren't from a private party or something like that. I'll let you guys know what the manufactures say. How long ago did you buy them ? 2008,2010, etc. 2006 I have bought other lowers since then and built rifles with them etc...., but for some reason these two just sat in my safe. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 10:25:32 AM EDT
[#22]
IIRC they were either rifle or pistol, if the state you took delivery of them in had different requirements for pistol purchase, it might be an issue. Further research might be required to tell if you are in the clear, the date could cause problems because they were not listed as other, which in IL, would have a pistol waiting period.
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Posted: 4/22/2014 11:17:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Everyone is correct. No one is wrong.
But this thread will go on for days. Common sense says.... document proof how you purchased them through legals means, as stripped lowers, and move on with your life. (picture, photo, receipt, anything really, ect) If it ever comes to the surface (which it won't) you will have your basis covered with at least some kind of due diligence that is defendable. Your not the FFL. Its not your job to mark it. Your job is to only answer the questions asked of you. You have reasonable grounds to assume the authority figure (FFL) did their job correctly. Document and move with your builds. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 12:09:55 PM EDT
[#24]
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2006 I have bought other lowers since then and built rifles with them etc...., but for some reason these two just sat in my safe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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..... I will call the manufacturers and see if they can look up the serial number and verify they left their business as stripped. They can, but even money as to whether they will. So, you bought them directly from the gun store, not the online vendor? - OS I bought them online, but from a retail vendor. It's been a few years so I don't remember, but they weren't from a private party or something like that. I'll let you guys know what the manufactures say. How long ago did you buy them ? 2008,2010, etc. 2006 I have bought other lowers since then and built rifles with them etc...., but for some reason these two just sat in my safe. Then they couldn't have been "other firearm" on 4473 on field 18, but they would be "lower" or "receiver" or "stripped lower", whatever, on the write-in part of field 29. If you didn't first build them as a long gun, they are as legal to use in a pistol build as a virgin lower you bought today. Take Scoey's advice, document what you can, but don't worry about it. YOU don't have to prove you bought them as new lowers, a prosecutor has to prove you did NOT. - OS |
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