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Posted: 4/13/2014 10:53:42 AM EDT
[#1]
I just completed a pistol build on a bare receiver and the class 3 dealer I asked about it assured me I was in the clear as long as it has never been a rifle, pistols don't require a tax stamp at all so I would say you need to find a dealer local with more knowledge to field your questions and get a clear answer in your case
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:01:01 AM EDT
[#2]
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower.
It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:01:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Deleted above post answered question, I had asked
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:05:18 AM EDT
[#4]
FFL should check "other" as it isn't anything until it's something.
There is no tax stamp for a pistol. I have actually heard some say they build all "others" as pistols first, take pix, then finish it as a rifle...so they could always go back to pistol if desired. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:07:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. So I can use a -16 barrel but use the pistol buffer tube, and I will be fine? Also if the FFL does want to put the lower as a rifle instead of checking other, what do I need to do? Have him it send it to another FFL? |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:36:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I can use a -16 barrel but use the pistol buffer tube, and I will be fine? Also if the FFL does want to put the lower as a rifle instead of checking other, what do I need to do? Have him it send it to another FFL? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. So I can use a -16 barrel but use the pistol buffer tube, and I will be fine? Also if the FFL does want to put the lower as a rifle instead of checking other, what do I need to do? Have him it send it to another FFL? Yes, you will have to use a pistol buffer tube (although you can add something like the SigSauer brace). Your FFL should know that it is not a rifle and should mark other. I would not pay twice for a transfer. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:36:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I can use a -16 barrel but use the pistol buffer tube, and I will be fine? According to the ATF,Yes Also if the FFL does want to put the lower as a rifle instead of checking other, what do I need to do? Have him it send it to another FFL? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. So I can use a -16 barrel but use the pistol buffer tube, and I will be fine? According to the ATF,Yes Also if the FFL does want to put the lower as a rifle instead of checking other, what do I need to do? Have him it send it to another FFL? Gonna find you a link to ATF letters about this LINK If your FFL is a dipshit you might be screwed on this. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 12:56:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. Probably a stupid question, but here goes - So a seller sells me a complete Colt 6920 lower taken off a complete rifle. My FFL gets the complete lower. He logs is in his book as an "Other". Does that imply that I can use said lower on a pistol? How would an FFL know if a lower was ever barreled as a rifle? For that matter, how would ANY buyer of a complete lower ever know if said lower was ever barreled as a rifle - aside from the seller's word? Does the status of the lower reset after a new 4473 is filled out? |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 1:04:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably a stupid question, but here goes - So a seller sells me a complete Colt 6920 lower taken off a complete rifle. My FFL gets the complete lower. He logs is in his book as an "Other". Does that imply that I can use said lower on a pistol? How would an FFL know if a lower was ever barreled as a rifle? For that matter, how would ANY buyer of a complete lower ever know if said lower was ever barreled as a rifle - aside from the seller's word? Does the status of the lower reset after a new 4473 is filled out? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. Probably a stupid question, but here goes - So a seller sells me a complete Colt 6920 lower taken off a complete rifle. My FFL gets the complete lower. He logs is in his book as an "Other". Does that imply that I can use said lower on a pistol? How would an FFL know if a lower was ever barreled as a rifle? For that matter, how would ANY buyer of a complete lower ever know if said lower was ever barreled as a rifle - aside from the seller's word? Does the status of the lower reset after a new 4473 is filled out? Good question I never thought of this. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 1:12:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably a stupid question, but here goes - So a seller sells me a complete Colt 6920 lower taken off a complete rifle. My FFL gets the complete lower. He logs is in his book as an "Other". Does that imply that I can use said lower on a pistol? How would an FFL know if a lower was ever barreled as a rifle? For that matter, how would ANY buyer of a complete lower ever know if said lower was ever barreled as a rifle - aside from the seller's word? Does the status of the lower reset after a new 4473 is filled out? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. Probably a stupid question, but here goes - So a seller sells me a complete Colt 6920 lower taken off a complete rifle. My FFL gets the complete lower. He logs is in his book as an "Other". Does that imply that I can use said lower on a pistol? How would an FFL know if a lower was ever barreled as a rifle? For that matter, how would ANY buyer of a complete lower ever know if said lower was ever barreled as a rifle - aside from the seller's word? Does the status of the lower reset after a new 4473 is filled out? In you scenario you could not legally build that lower into a pistol configuration due to the fact it was first built as a rifle. Regardless of how the ffl logged it. As for how is a buyer to know.... Buy from a dealer unless you absolutely trust and know the seller. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 1:20:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In you scenario you could not legally build that lower into a pistol configuration due to the fact it was first built as a rifle. Regardless of how the ffl logged it. As for how is a buyer to know.... Buy from a dealer unless you absolutely trust and know the seller. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. Probably a stupid question, but here goes - So a seller sells me a complete Colt 6920 lower taken off a complete rifle. My FFL gets the complete lower. He logs is in his book as an "Other". Does that imply that I can use said lower on a pistol? How would an FFL know if a lower was ever barreled as a rifle? For that matter, how would ANY buyer of a complete lower ever know if said lower was ever barreled as a rifle - aside from the seller's word? Does the status of the lower reset after a new 4473 is filled out? In you scenario you could not legally build that lower into a pistol configuration due to the fact it was first built as a rifle. Regardless of how the ffl logged it. As for how is a buyer to know.... Buy from a dealer unless you absolutely trust and know the seller. Can't: already a rifle. As for knowing what something started life as, short of finding out from the manufacturer, you can't be certain unless you are the one who takes first possession of it. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 1:34:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't: already a rifle. As for knowing what something started life as, short of finding out from the manufacturer, you can't be certain unless you are the one who takes first possession of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The FFL can not put Rifle on the form because it is a lower. It has to be a complete rifle to do that. He has to put (Other) on the form. Even if the lower came with a rifle stock attached. It is not a rifle until it has had a +16" upper installed. Just do not put a -16" upper on the lower with the rifle stock on it or you built an illegal SBR. Probably a stupid question, but here goes - So a seller sells me a complete Colt 6920 lower taken off a complete rifle. My FFL gets the complete lower. He logs is in his book as an "Other". Does that imply that I can use said lower on a pistol? How would an FFL know if a lower was ever barreled as a rifle? For that matter, how would ANY buyer of a complete lower ever know if said lower was ever barreled as a rifle - aside from the seller's word? Does the status of the lower reset after a new 4473 is filled out? In you scenario you could not legally build that lower into a pistol configuration due to the fact it was first built as a rifle. Regardless of how the ffl logged it. As for how is a buyer to know.... Buy from a dealer unless you absolutely trust and know the seller. Can't: already a rifle. As for knowing what something started life as, short of finding out from the manufacturer, you can't be certain unless you are the one who takes first possession of it. I understand. But if someone was to build as a pistol after it was a rifle, how will law enforcement ever know? Would they have to check ATF records? Are lower receivers registered in someone's name in Tennessee? That would be the only ways I know they would find out. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 1:45:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... I understand. But if someone was to build as a pistol after it was a rifle, how will law enforcement ever know? ... The only way they would necessarily know for sure is if the lower were first configured and sold by manufacturer as rifle. Pretty easy to check manufacturer's/distributors records and also first FFL it was sold through. What an FFL either correctly or incorrectly notates a 4473 is far from any kind of binding legal ruling. Marking a lower as "long gun" does not make it legally so, any more than marking a revolver as "long gun" makes it so. And yes, all lowers including used ones, are supposed to be "other firearm" on question 18 and "receiver", "AR lower", whatever similar they choose to write in, on question 29. - OS |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 2:44:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand. But if someone was to build as a pistol after it was a rifle, how will law enforcement ever know? Would they have to check ATF records? Are lower receivers registered in someone's name in Tennessee? That would be the only ways I know they would find out. The ATF can find out what it left the factory as. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 3:42:40 PM EDT
[#15]
So if it leaves the factory as a stripped lower then I should be able to build a pistol then. Correct?
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Posted: 4/13/2014 3:46:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Since a stripped lower can be purchased for $50 or so....why would you take a chance of getting in trouble. Just buy a stripped lower and build what you want. Don't try to over think this....it can only be done one way....the right way.
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Posted: 4/13/2014 3:50:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
How to legally build my stripped AR lower into a pistol. I goggled this topic and seen that if the receiver has never been built, that I can make this receiver into a pistol. I have also seen that people have bought a lower that is designated a pistol lower from Spikes, and PSA. I have read the FFL is suppose to check other on the paper work, meaning I can build what I want. My lower is a PSA and is on its way to my FFL. He is claiming I have to pay for a tax stamp. All the threads I seen are a few years old, and want to make certain I do the correct thing. So what can I legally do? I will build a rifle if I have to but prefer the pistol build. Thanks in advance for all your helpful advice. OP... your FFL is a dipshit. stripped lowers are checked as "Other" on the 4473. It fully explains this in the instructions for question 18. Tell him to learn how to fucking read. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 4:44:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP... your FFL is a dipshit. stripped lowers are checked as "Other" on the 4473. It fully explains this in the instructions for question 18. Tell him to learn how to fucking read. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How to legally build my stripped AR lower into a pistol. I goggled this topic and seen that if the receiver has never been built, that I can make this receiver into a pistol. I have also seen that people have bought a lower that is designated a pistol lower from Spikes, and PSA. I have read the FFL is suppose to check other on the paper work, meaning I can build what I want. My lower is a PSA and is on its way to my FFL. He is claiming I have to pay for a tax stamp. All the threads I seen are a few years old, and want to make certain I do the correct thing. So what can I legally do? I will build a rifle if I have to but prefer the pistol build. Thanks in advance for all your helpful advice. OP... your FFL is a dipshit. stripped lowers are checked as "Other" on the 4473. It fully explains this in the instructions for question 18. Tell him to learn how to fucking read.  lol I agree
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Posted: 4/13/2014 4:53:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP... your FFL is a dipshit. stripped lowers are checked as "Other" on the 4473. It fully explains this in the instructions for question 18. Tell him to learn how to fucking read. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How to legally build my stripped AR lower into a pistol. I goggled this topic and seen that if the receiver has never been built, that I can make this receiver into a pistol. I have also seen that people have bought a lower that is designated a pistol lower from Spikes, and PSA. I have read the FFL is suppose to check other on the paper work, meaning I can build what I want. My lower is a PSA and is on its way to my FFL. He is claiming I have to pay for a tax stamp. All the threads I seen are a few years old, and want to make certain I do the correct thing. So what can I legally do? I will build a rifle if I have to but prefer the pistol build. Thanks in advance for all your helpful advice. OP... your FFL is a dipshit. stripped lowers are checked as "Other" on the 4473. It fully explains this in the instructions for question 18. Tell him to learn how to fucking read. A call to your regional ATF field agent will likely change the FFL's "opinion" on that sort of thing. - OS |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 5:31:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if it leaves the factory as a stripped lower then I should be able to build a pistol then. Correct? Yes; even a complete lower...no upper/barrel = "other". |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 6:26:53 PM EDT
[#21]
A typical FFL can not change a designation of a lower from a stripped status to a rifle. That would be constitute making a firearm without a firearm manufacturing license. He can sell a lower with a LPK & stock Kit, but he still had to log it as "other".
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Posted: 4/13/2014 7:12:36 PM EDT
[#22]
1.) Order Stripped AR lower to certified FFL
2.) Build AR pistol |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:45:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1.) Order Stripped AR lower to certified FFL 2.) Build AR pistol This. These threads make my head hurt. With stripped lowers readily available for $50 ($41.99 if you don't mind a "blem"), even with shipping and a "rape me" $40 transfer charge, the OTD cost would still only be $100. Even as low as $70 for a blem, shipping and $20 transfer. With prices this low, why take the risk of a trip to the Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison by using an unknown-source receiver? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:01:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Question - If I buy a complete lower, pull the stock off and stick a pistol upper on it, am I legal? PSA has some deals on complete lowers and I'm thinking about picking 1 or 2 of them up.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:13:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question - If I buy a complete lower, pull the stock off and stick a pistol upper on it, am I legal? PSA has some deals on complete lowers and I'm thinking about picking 1 or 2 of them up. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:28:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but you had better have some other use for the stock you remove or change out the receiver extension as well... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Question - If I buy a complete lower, pull the stock off and stick a pistol upper on it, am I legal? PSA has some deals on complete lowers and I'm thinking about picking 1 or 2 of them up. Or toss the stock in the trash or sell it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:58:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or toss the stock in the trash or sell it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Question - If I buy a complete lower, pull the stock off and stick a pistol upper on it, am I legal? PSA has some deals on complete lowers and I'm thinking about picking 1 or 2 of them up. Or toss the stock in the trash or sell it. Or have another lower configured for a rifle - so you have both. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 11:16:27 AM EDT
[#28]
I've got plenty of other rifle extensions laying around that it can be paired with, I was just wondering how complete lowers were classified. In that they're clearly sent out in what would be a rifle configuration, so I didn't know if there was any difference between it and a true stripped lower.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 11:19:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got plenty of other rifle extensions laying around that it can be paired with, I was just wondering how complete lowers were classified. In that they're clearly sent out in what would be a rifle configuration, so I didn't know if there was any difference between it and a true stripped lower. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 11:20:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Also keep in mind that if you build your AR as a pistol, said AR can then be turned in to a rifle and also converted back to a pistol. However if you buy a lower that is already designated as a rifle lower, or that was first built as a rifle, the lower can never become an AR pistol.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 11:48:32 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also keep in mind that if you build your AR as a pistol, said AR can then be turned in to a rifle and also converted back to a pistol. However if you buy a lower that is already designated as a rifle lower, or that was first built as a rifle, the lower can never become an AR pistol. This is what led to my original question. I didn't know if PSA would send these out as rifles given that they come with a stock and what not. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:17:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what led to my original question. I didn't know if PSA would send these out as rifles given that they come with a stock and what not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also keep in mind that if you build your AR as a pistol, said AR can then be turned in to a rifle and also converted back to a pistol. However if you buy a lower that is already designated as a rifle lower, or that was first built as a rifle, the lower can never become an AR pistol. This is what led to my original question. I didn't know if PSA would send these out as rifles given that they come with a stock and what not. Nope. No non NFA firearm without an attached barrel can be a "handgun" or "long gun". As long as you have a legal use for one stock it's fine to have as many extras as you like. ".. an NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and a short barrel); or (b) convert complete weapon into an NFA firearm (e.g., a pistol and attachable shoulder stock, or a long-barreled rifle and attachable short barrel)" - OS |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:20:33 PM EDT
[#33]
So me and a couple of guys I work with was discussing my AR pistol build today. I was told the receiver has to me marked "multti caliber". I tried showing this person this thread and they are convinced I am wrong, and he was correct. What does the multi caliber mean? Does it mean it can be used on 556, 308, or 7.62X39?
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:46:52 PM EDT
[#34]
It really doesn't matter what the lower is marked. It is legal to build any compatible caliber upper, and many manufacturers are marking theirs Multi because of this...
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:48:26 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So me and a couple of guys I work with was discussing my AR pistol build today. I was told the receiver has to me marked "multti caliber". I tried showing this person this thread and they are convinced I am wrong, and he was correct. What does the multi caliber mean? Does it mean it can be used on 556, 308, or 7.62X39? There's nothing governing pistols and what caliber they're allowed to be. A lower marked 5.56 can still shoot 300 blackout. Good luck getting a 5.56 lower to shoot 308 lol. Multi is just stating that it is cable of using multiple calibers. It has no legal bearing. |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:58:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Rev- you need some smarter friends. Geesh. So much misinformation, my head is starting to hurt, too.
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