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IdahoHk416
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Posted: 7/31/2013 4:54:50 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I was checking out the Sig website, and came across this-
Sig SB15

It states that it has been reviewed by the ATF and is a compliant part, which means no need to register as a SBR to install it.

My question is this- It looks like a stock already, with the nylon strap wrapped around it. Could you put a rubber buttplate on it and use it as a stock? Or would that alter the ATF classification?

I am not considering doing this, but it came to mind when I saw how the product looks and is designed in the pictures.

Might be a cheaper, easier way to put a "stock" on without registering as a SBR.
balloo93
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Posted: 7/31/2013 5:07:52 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By IdahoHk416:
I was checking out the Sig website, and came across this-
Sig SB15

It states that it has been reviewed by the ATF and is a compliant part, which means no need to register as a SBR to install it.

My question is this- It looks like a stock already, with the nylon strap wrapped around it. Could you put a rubber buttplate on it and use it as a stock? Or would that alter the ATF classification?

I am not considering doing this, but it came to mind when I saw how the product looks and is designed in the pictures.

Might be a cheaper, easier way to put a "stock" on without registering as a SBR.


I wouldn't put a butt pad on it.....it's not a stock.

Don't over think it.
williewvr
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Posted: 7/31/2013 5:14:16 PM
Nevermind, I can't think of a way to express my feelings without violating CoC
Just put me down for a CoC violation and I won't type what I'm really thinking. Save everyone some time
SYSTEM
Posted: 7/31/2013 5:22:54 PM
[Last Edit: 7/31/2013 5:22:54 PM by Eric802]
Topic Moved
IdahoHk416
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Posted: 7/31/2013 5:55:21 PM
Hahaha!

Like I said, I'm not looking to try it.
shadycoh
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Posted: 7/31/2013 7:56:57 PM
[Last Edit: 7/31/2013 8:02:03 PM by shadycoh]
I am not very smart so dont listen to me

it is legal to shoulder the buffertube on an ar pistol. So I would assume <and we all know what ass u me is> you can practice an emergency maneuver where you did not have the brace straped to your arm and needed to get a shot off. Now the question is do you want to risk the fine and jail time for it.


BTW I just scored one on GB for 109 NIB shipped woot
jwb47
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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:50:21 PM
for 61.00 more dollars you could do a form 1
Gunnerpalace
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Posted: 7/31/2013 8:58:32 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By jwb47:
for 61.00 more dollars you could do a form 1


What about me? SBR's are illegal in MI.
OhShoot
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Posted: 7/31/2013 10:08:54 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By IdahoHk416:
....

It states that it has been reviewed by the ATF and is a compliant part, which means no need to register as a SBR to install it.
.


Well, the only letter that exists AFAIK is the one to Alex Bosco for the prototype. Sig doesn't have one for their actual product. Would be quite the hoopla if ATF decides it doesn't pass muster at some point.

- OS
Rick_A
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Posted: 7/31/2013 10:31:09 PM
It's flexible. It'd make a poor "stock" even if you wanted to use it as one. Used as intended it has some merit. People get excited as if its a legal way to put a stock on a pistol without making an SBR. The reason it got approval is because it sucks as a stock.
shadycoh
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Posted: 8/1/2013 7:13:25 AM
for 61 bucks and having to register the weapon with the atf and wait 9 months.
NationalUXO
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Posted: 8/1/2013 6:19:30 PM
[Last Edit: 8/1/2013 6:23:04 PM by NationalUXO]
I really don't think that it sucks if used in that manner. It's not soft or floppy in the least. If you change the design in any way I think you'd be on VERY shaky ground. Using it in any way, as is, should be gtg according to the documentation that Sig actually ships with it (just a mini copy or the ATF letter). I just took a copy of the determination and put it in the pistol grip in case I get hassled. I also asked a county sheriff SGT if they enforce to ATF specs. It all seems very legit.

We can't have SBR's where I live so a tax stamp (for an SBR anyway) is an invitation to jail here.

Also, I believe that it is illegal to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle here. It is perfectly legal for me to have a loaded pistol with a CPL...

I intend (with a touch further research) to hunt for deer this year with my AR pistol in 300blk. It's short range brush country so my setup seems perfect for all kinds of applications...
NationalUXO
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Posted: 8/1/2013 6:43:07 PM
Also, its a hell of a shoulder workout when used properly...
OhShoot
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Posted: 8/1/2013 8:57:34 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By NationalUXO:
I really don't think that it sucks if used in that manner. It's not soft or floppy in the least. If you change the design in any way I think you'd be on VERY shaky ground. Using it in any way, as is, should be gtg according to the documentation that Sig actually ships with it (just a mini copy or the ATF letter). I just took a copy of the determination and put it in the pistol grip in case I get hassled. I also asked a county sheriff SGT if they enforce to ATF specs. It all seems very legit.

We can't have SBR's where I live so a tax stamp (for an SBR anyway) is an invitation to jail here.

Also, I believe that it is illegal to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle here. It is perfectly legal for me to have a loaded pistol with a CPL...

I intend (with a touch further research) to hunt for deer this year with my AR pistol in 300blk. It's short range brush country so my setup seems perfect for all kinds of applications...


So you're not really in Arizona?

- OS
mattman13
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Posted: 8/1/2013 10:38:43 PM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2013 12:14:06 PM by mattman13]
To answer the question I believe modifying it would definitely effect its legality. Any changes like that would need to be approved by the atf. I have heard of many items that were approved then slightly modified for production and then deemed an nfa after produced. I would leave as is. I really enjoy mine.
KB7DX
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Posted: 8/2/2013 6:35:19 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By NationalUXO:
I really don't think that it sucks if used in that manner. It's not soft or floppy in the least. If you change the design in any way I think you'd be on VERY shaky ground. Using it in any way, as is, should be gtg according to the documentation that Sig actually ships with it (just a mini copy or the ATF letter). I just took a copy of the determination and put it in the pistol grip in case I get hassled. I also asked a county sheriff SGT if they enforce to ATF specs. It all seems very legit.

We can't have SBR's where I live so a tax stamp (for an SBR anyway) is an invitation to jail here.

Also, I believe that it is illegal to have a loaded rifle in a vehicle here. It is perfectly legal for me to have a loaded pistol with a CPL...

I intend (with a touch further research) to hunt for deer this year with my AR pistol in 300blk. It's short range brush country so my setup seems perfect for all kinds of applications...

You must NOT be in Arizona. SBR's, supressors, machine guns all legal here with proper paperwork. No laws here against carrying a loaded rifle, pistol or machine gun in your vehicle for that matter. Heck, you don't even need a carry permit unless you want to go into a place armed that serves alcohol.

OP, if it were me I would not alter the device in any way.
...behind every blade of grass...
TBoneDetroit
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Posted: 8/2/2013 7:15:17 PM
It got approved not because it sucks as a stock (never seen one in person), but because it has a demonstrable design use which is NOT to be shouldered. The criteria as I understand it is simply that the weapon (or weapon accessory in this point) is not designed to be shouldered (or fired from the shoulder). This keeps it legally in the pistol category. If you put a butt plate on it, it seems to me your intention is clearly to violate that standard, and probably a Felony. I wouldn't chance it.

The unit looks to me like it might well function as a decent substitute for an actual stock. AFAIK, there is no law against shouldering something not designed to be (we also have Members who use the cane tip, and I know some certainly do shoulder those, or even the buffer tube itself). For me, I'm content with my pistol and the cheek weld on the padded buffer tube. Works just fine (hoping to do further testing on a decent length range soon). And if we do finally get SBR legal here in Michigan, my pistol will remain the same (I can load and carry it just as any other pistol with my CPL, can't do that with a rifle here). But I will then also be building an SBR or two!
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rightwingnut
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Posted: 8/4/2013 9:58:16 PM
Legally, a HG is defined as a gun designed to be fired w/ one hand. An AR pisotl is thereticaly so, it just so happens, that same as your glock, it is easier to shoot using the support hand too... The sig brace is specifically designed to help single hand shooting so it is clearly not intended to be used as a shoulder stock.

Seems like it would slide to and from no the receiver extension, if you were to shoulder it as manufactured, seems like it would just slide forward and let the end of the receiver extension hit you in the shoulder anyway.

i believe there have been people who have been prosecuted for using mag holder accessories or other things tha tattach to the receiver ext as a butt, whether or not they were orignally intended such or they modified them, b/c, the ATFags argued that the possesor built the gun to be fired w/ two hands and shouldered.

It might be useful as a cheek rest, but seems like a lot of bulk and $$$ for that.

It is legal to use a full length receiver extension on AR pistol. Its not as compact but provieds the LOP that most men need. A car tube is too short for me. It is legal to shoulder the receiver extension.

Also, a regular rifle extension is stronger than telestock extensions, at the place where it attaches to the lower, a point of failure.

If you use a rifle length tube, you can now use a VFG or AFG (if you are into them), if the overall length is over 26" per a recent ruling.

There are people who have letters, to htem, saying it is legal to put a cane tip in there, ostensibly so that is stable when leaned in a corner. But those are a "positive defense" only to the addressee. I am unaware of a general ruling about cane tips.

You might can get a false telestock extension, rifle length tube, but that hosted fake telectocks during the AWB and use it to host the sig brace thing.

I don't think the brace is practical. It would sort of force you to shoot the gun two handed, which is inferior.

Anyway, its all arbitrary BS, fuck congress and their ATF enforcers
NationalUXO
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Posted: 8/5/2013 12:25:53 AM
"So you're not really in Arizona?"



I have a house in AZ and WA. Right now I'm in WA and will likely be for a while...
shadycoh
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Posted: 8/9/2013 7:00:09 AM
Now that my brace is in hand I can LOL at all the armchair warriors that say it would suck as a stock. I was doubtful but the thing is almost hard plastic and my arm is large and it would be very uncomfortable used as intended. I hope it loosens up some or stretches to fit my arm.

Well worth the 109 shipped from GB
Gastonite
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Posted: 8/9/2013 7:09:27 PM
I picked one up today after I fondled one mounted on a 11.5" pistol at the local fun shop. I shouldered it numerous times and it felt good, is rock solid, and a MAJOR step up from a simple uncomfortable tube. No SBRs in WA, so this will sell like hotcakes here.
Pacs
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Posted: 8/9/2013 7:30:46 PM
When the LEO says drop your weapon, you say, I can't comply.

"Do not call attention to yourself and invite the man into your life" Bama-Shooter
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Rick_A
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Posted: 8/9/2013 9:24:09 PM
It may just be me, but I don't see a non-stock stock.



Not for me
Gastonite
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Posted: 8/10/2013 12:37:28 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Rick_A:
It may just be me, but I don't see a non-stock stock.

http://www.sigsauerguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Sig-SB-15-14.jpg

Not for me


Well, since you can legally own an SBR, then obviously it would not be for you. One other note, my state restricts me from traveling with a loaded rifle. An SBR would be no exception. An AR pistol with supporting brace fits that bill quite nicely.
gmtech825
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:45:28 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Gastonite:
Originally Posted By Rick_A:
It may just be me, but I don't see a non-stock stock.

http://www.sigsauerguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Sig-SB-15-14.jpg

Not for me


Well, since you can legally own an SBR, then obviously it would not be for you. One other note, my state restricts me from traveling with a loaded rifle. An SBR would be no exception. An AR pistol with supporting brace fits that bill quite nicely.



bingo!
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OTTOSEAR
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Posted: 8/18/2013 1:11:28 PM
Wait til you see the new Slidefire version.
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